Civilization V, how is it now?

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-Slacker-

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2010
1,563
0
76
Haha "is civilization V good yet?" is becoming almost as much of a popular meme as "but can it run crysis?"

















Well... not really, but it seems to me that people just can't seem to find closure in the fact thet it's worse than civ IV...
 

Anteaus

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2010
2,448
4
81
Well... not really, but it seems to me that people just can't seem to find closure in the fact thet it's worse than civ IV...

But you see that is not what is going on. People have no problem saying V isn't as good as IV. The problem is that somee people seem to only deal in extremes. They rip on V likes its a putrid piece of trash while raising IV to some sort of mythical place.

Bottom line, V is good but IV is better. If IV didn't exist V would still be a good game and better than most of the other strategy games out there. People have no problem realizing IV is the superior game. I just don't understand why people have to piss all over V when there are people who obviously enjoy it. :p
 

Rhezuss

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2006
4,118
34
91
But you see that is not what is going on. People have no problem saying V isn't as good as IV. The problem is that somee people seem to only deal in extremes. They rip on V likes its a putrid piece of trash while raising IV to some sort of mythical place.

Bottom line, V is good but IV is better. If IV didn't exist V would still be a good game and better than most of the other strategy games out there. People have no problem realizing IV is the superior game. I just don't understand why people have to piss all over V when there are people who obviously enjoy it. :p

I couldn't have put it better than that! Accurate comment Anteaus.

Extremes are the new trend in videogames opinions now. People cry for new stuff, new mechanics, gameplay, graphics, etc and when are served some, they spit on it like it's an ugly 3 legged dog...

Where is the basic sense of enjoyment gone?!!?! We're spoiled...

Human being at it's best...
 

sigurros81

Platinum Member
Nov 30, 2010
2,371
0
0
But you see that is not what is going on. People have no problem saying V isn't as good as IV. The problem is that somee people seem to only deal in extremes. They rip on V likes its a putrid piece of trash while raising IV to some sort of mythical place.

Bottom line, V is good but IV is better. If IV didn't exist V would still be a good game and better than most of the other strategy games out there. People have no problem realizing IV is the superior game. I just don't understand why people have to piss all over V when there are people who obviously enjoy it. :p


You seem to hit the point but at the same time you also missed it. The fact that the Civ series left such a spectacular legacy with 4 being the pinnacle, 5 was such a let down for long time fans. While 5 may have been a decent game standing on it's own, it easily should have been much better following their own standards that they have set with 4. Unfortunately, they didn't and that's where the tragedy lies. 5 felt rushed with poor design decisions and initial imbalances upon release. 5 is still rather broken. I keep giving the game chances, but everytime I try playing it, the AI is still horrible and they do the most random things, forcing me to give up and go back to 4.
 

minmaster

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 2006
2,041
3
71
even if there was no civ4, civ5 is still trash. if you guys can't see that game mechanics make for a game that is not fun at all, then i give up.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
even if there was no civ4, civ5 is still trash. if you guys can't see that game mechanics make for a game that is not fun at all, then i give up.

Agree. I still don't get how anyone can play Civ5 for more than 1 or 2 games and think it is still good, unless it was the first strategy game you have ever played.

Let me ask you Civ5 fanboys this: have you ever lost a game of Civ5?
 

minmaster

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 2006
2,041
3
71
the only thing that saves the game is the "sid meier's" infront of the title and of course being named "civilization". if this same exact game was released and called something else, most people would ignore it and would have no problem calling it trash.

from what i gather from fansites, it seems like a big part of the civ5 fans are the people who enjoyed CivRev on the consoles.
 

Anteaus

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2010
2,448
4
81
even if there was no civ4, civ5 is still trash. if you guys can't see that game mechanics make for a game that is not fun at all, then i give up.

I'm glad you don't review games for a living. If you didn't think Civ V was fun even the least little bit then I would hate to see what you say about other games. Fun is a relative term. You argue about game mechanics, but there are games with much simplier designs that I would argue are far superior than anything Sid Meier ever produced. V is just a different sort of game. It's your option to not play it, but please don't come in here and offend those of us that happen to like it. You have no idea what fun means to other people, so let's not go there.

Let me ask you Civ5 fanboys this: have you ever lost a game of Civ5?

Wow you guys are rough. Name calling and everything. I have played every Civ game since the original Dos version. I personally think Civ II is the best of the bunch. I also like IV & V. I have put 80 hours into V so far. I'm no Civ V fanboy. You should look at yourself and decide if your a Civ IV fanboy. If something's fun, I play it. If not, I don't. It's really at simple as that. If I never played IV or V again it wouldn't affect me. They are just games.

I remember when Civ IV came out and there were people who complained about how much it sucked compared to III. I guess we are going to have to go through this every time now, and it's quite sad really.

This thread is starting to sound like a World of Warcraft forum.
 
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Terzo

Platinum Member
Dec 13, 2005
2,589
27
91
Civ 4 is the first one I played (if you don't count Alpha Centauri). I bought the complete edition a year or two ago, and I still suck at it and still have fun. I'm up to Noble difficulty, but it's a good challenge. I've won a few times, but just as often I'll get my ass kicked by the comp players.

I'll probably be happy with this game for quite a while.
 

Kristijonas

Senior member
Jun 11, 2011
859
4
76
I played Civ5 and liked it (played as a one-city state and lost several times).
Although, why are you people talking about Civ5? Go play Shogun 2! I bought it yesterday and it's really impressive. it's very complex, so be prepared to spend much time analising.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
I'm glad you don't review games for a living. If you didn't think Civ V was fun even the least little bit then I would hate to see what you say about other games. Fun is a relative term. You argue about game mechanics, but there are games with much simplier designs that I would argue are far superior than anything Sid Meier ever produced. V is just a different sort of game. It's your option to not play it, but please don't come in here and offend those of us that happen to like it. You have no idea what fun means to other people, so let's not go there.



Wow you guys are rough. Name calling and everything. I have played every Civ game since the original Dos version. I personally think Civ II is the best of the bunch. I also like IV & V. I have put 80 hours into V so far. I'm no Civ V fanboy. You should look at yourself and decide if your a Civ IV fanboy. If something's fun, I play it. If not, I don't. It's really at simple as that. If I never played IV or V again it wouldn't affect me. They are just games.

I remember when Civ IV came out and there were people who complained about how much it sucked compared to III. I guess we are going to have to go through this every time now, and it's quite sad really.

This thread is starting to sound like a World of Warcraft forum.

When Civ4 first came out people complained because it was buggy and didn't run well on older machines. Glitches were quickly patched. There was not a large majority of the community calling it crap a year after it was released. People did not go back to Civ3 in droves.

Statements like "chill out man it's just a game", "everyone has their own opinions" and "don't spoil other people's fun" are not an arguments for why Civ5 is not terrible.
 

Arglebargle

Senior member
Dec 2, 2006
892
1
81
When Civ4 first came out people complained because it was buggy and didn't run well on older machines. Glitches were quickly patched. There was not a large majority of the community calling it crap a year after it was released. People did not go back to Civ3 in droves.

Statements like "chill out man it's just a game", "everyone has their own opinions" and "don't spoil other people's fun" are not an arguments for why Civ5 is not terrible.

A game being 'fun' or 'not fun' are not arguments for good or bad game design. Fun is very subjective. 'It's no fun, it's a terrible game' doesn't really convey enough information.

That said, I don't feel Civ5 is better than Civ4: Some of the adaptions seem troublesome, I am undecided on the 'no stacking'. On the other hand, no Civ game is better than Alpha Centauri, which was pretty much the pinnacle of the line.
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,801
581
126
From CivFanatics:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=427490

Just over an hour ago, 2K Greg was kind enough to post the patch notes in the Civ5 forums.

Also posted was a message from the developers:


Code:
[NOTES]

    Pacing has received a large amount of work. Expect to have more of a challenge managing your empire at higher difficulty levels than you did before. Consider dropping a difficulty level if you have problems.
    Existing saves will work correctly. However, the balance pass may make your existing happiness lower than expected when loading into your existing save post-patch.


[UI]

    Civilopedia now available in the Main Menu (under “Other”)
    Replay is now available at the end of the game, and through the main menu. You can choose Map, Graphs, and turn-by-turn. Only games played post-patch will apply.
    Great People progress UI addition (upper-left Info Corner UI).
    Combat preview for Aircraft UI addition.
    Fixed aircraft UI issue causing the aircraft selection UI to duplicate itself when rebasing aircraft.
    When loading save game files, you can now order the list by name, or last modified.


[DIPLOMACY]

    Made backstab routine more transparent (the dialog will clearly state that they are backstabbing you).
    AI now remembers when it has been nuked, for a permanent diplomatic penalty.
    AI now recognizes a player that captured their capital for a permanent diplomatic penalty.
    End declaration of friendship as soon as war is declared (so can't later get a notification that it has expired).
    AI remembers if you satisfied one of their requests (positive modifier, decays over time, based on value of items granted).
    AI remembers if you fought against a common foe (positive modifier, decays over time, based on damage done to the common foe).
    Track trades between players and allow that to positively influence relationships (the better the deal for the AI, the stronger the modifier). Particularly useful for bribing a hostile AI.


[AI]

    Rebalanced AI flavors and strategies for unit training to improve AI army composition and build choices.
    Allow the AI to consider Pikeman units for offensive roles when they can't build Swordsman or Longswordsman.
    Allow Alexander and Darius to consider Hoplites and Immortals for offensive roles in early game.
    AI players may now use a Great General in early rushes on higher difficulties.
    Modified flavor tags for Atomic Bomb and Nuclear Missile so AI builds them only when it decides it specifically wants Nukes.
    Block City States from building carriers, atomic weapons.
    Strategies for building mobile units now persist into Modern era to help AI decisions for when to build tanks and modern armor.
    Dampen early game Grand Strategies to give the AI time to expand (AI were sometimes stuck in a single city until late in the game).
    Victory adjustments to AI behaviors, including alternate victory paths as “back-ups” (for example, building the Apollo Program, even if they are not going for a Spaceship victory).
    Revise code calculating recommended army size (using smaller armies if the threat is low).
    Correct issue that was causing late-game continent-bound AI’s to over-build units intending to invade, and never properly execute the amphibious invasion.
    Scale recommended army sizes based on difficulty level.
    AI grand strategy and flavor weighting balance pass.
    AI policy choice weighting balance pass.
    AI tech choice weighting balance pass.


[GAMEPLAY]

    Player is now given the option to return a CS worker that they free from barbarians.
    Roads under captured cities no longer charge maintenance.
    Machu Picchu no longer destroyed when capturing a city containing Machu Picchu.


[MULTIPLAYER]

    Multiplayer AI is now consistent with Single Player AI.
    Hot-Seat is now available through the multiplayer menu.
        You can have as many humans playing as available slots in the game.
        Password protection is built in.
        All maps, including purchased and user-created, are available to play in Hot-Seat.
        While play-by-email is not yet implemented, we did include an in-between turn saving option for those that want to play via email.


[BALANCE]
Mechanics

    Policy “Finishers” added to all 10 policy trees. Taking all policies in a tree will grant an additional bonus effect. See policy notes below for more information.
    Tweaked Policy cost formula (cheaper earlier, more expensive later).
    Reduced per-city Policy cost increase by 50%.
    Culture from City States tweaked (less early, more later).
    Killing a barbarian for a city state now gives 12 influence (was 5).
    Production cost adjustments for units/buildings/wonders (mostly a little cheaper, much cheaper late game).
    Unhappiness per city increased to 3 from 2.
    All great person tile improvements now connect all strategic resources.
    Reduced Culture from Goody Huts to 20 from 30.
    Defense penalty and city assault bonus promotions are now lost with upgrade.
    Research agreements now give a tech boost instead of a free tech. Tech boosts start at 50% of the median value of all techs you can research. Can be boosted to 100% if you both start Rationalism and build the Porcelain Tower.


Terrain, Resources, and Improvements

    New bonus resource: Stone (+1 production, improved with a Quarry). See the Stone Works building note below for additional details.
    Map generation improvements to integrate Stone into production-poor terrain, reducing the temporary usage of Cows. Additionally, will switch grass bonus resources from Cows to Stone when production is needed.
    Marsh and Fallout terrain penalty reduced from -33 to -15.
    Academy yield increases with Scientific Theory.
    Customs House yield increases with Economics.
    Manufactory yield increases with Chemistry.
    Marble wonder production mod reduced to 15%.
    Luxury resources now give 4 Happiness, down from 5.
    Remove penalty for improving Tundra, Snow and Desert.
    Railroad improvement now takes 3 turns, down from 7.
    Scrub Fallout now takes 2 turns, down from 5.
    Repair improvement now takes 2 turns, down from 3.
    Well improvements now remove jungle/forest/marsh.


Buildings

    New building: Stone Works: +1 Happiness and +1 production, and +1 production for each source of Marble and Stone worked. Requires Marble or Stone.
    Burial Tomb now correctly has an Artist slot.
    Mud Pyramid Mosque reduced 1 Culture.
    Circus moved to Trapping.
    Forge maintenance reduced 1 gold.
    Windmill production modifier reduced 5% to 10%.
    Monastery base Culture reduced from 3 to 2. Per resource Culture unchanged.
    Mint gold per resource reduced by 1 gold.
    Colosseum maintenance reduced by 1 gold, Happiness reduced by 1.
    Theatre maintenance reduced by 1 gold, Happiness reduced by 1.
    Stadium maintenance reduced by 1 gold, Happiness reduced by 1.
    Broadcast tower cultural modifier reduced to 33% but now gives 3 Culture.
    Armory maintenance reduced by 1 gold and moved to Machinery.
    Military academy maintenance reduced by 2 gold.
    Arsenal moved to rifling and now provides city defense instead of unit production.
    Walls now gives 4 Defense (was 5).
    Walls of Bablylon now give 6 Defense (was 7.5).
    Mughal Fort now gives 6 Defense (was 9).
    Castle now gives 4 Defense (was 7.5).
    University maintenance reduced by 1 gold and now gives a 33% boost to science instead of 50% (will increase to 50% after adopting Free Thought Policy).
    Military Academy now requires Armory instead of Barracks.
    Arsenal now requires Castle instead of Military Academy.
    Military Base now requires Arsenal.
    Wat now requires Library.
    Mud Pyramid Mosque now requires Monument.
    Harbor naval production reduced 10% but now increases sea resources yield by 1 hammer.
    Seaports no longer require a sea resource, they now require a Harbor. Production per sea resource reduced by 1 hammer.
    Factory production increased by 1 hammer but modifier decreased to 10%.
    Solar/Nuclear plant cost greatly reduced.
    Solar/Nuclear plant production increased by 1 hammer but modifier decreased to 15%.
    Public School science per population reduced by 50% and now provides a flat 3 science.
    Research Laboratory modifier reduced by 50% but now gives a flat 4 science.
    Workshop production modifier reduced by 5%.
    Barracks, Armory, Military Academy and Krepost now provide experience to all units trained.


Wonders

    National College moved to Philosophy and reduced by 2 science.
    Oxford University now gives 3 additional science.
    Great Lighthouse now also provides a free Lighthouse in the city where it was built.
    Great library now gives 3 additional science, and provides a free Library in the city where it was built.
    Porcelain tower now additionally increases the Science granted when completing Research Agreements by 50%.
    Hermitage moved to Acoustics and much cheaper to build. Now requires Opera Houses but gives only a 50% boost to Culture.
    Stonehenge Culture reduced to 6 from 8.
    Pyramids worker speed increase reduced to 25% from 50% but now give a free Worker when built
    Hanging Gardens now give 10 Food instead of 1 population per city and Happiness.
    Great Wall now obsoletes with Dynamite instead of metallurgy and gives 3 Culture. Additionally, a free Wall is provided in the city where it was built.
    Hagia Sophia great person modifier reduced to 25% from 34%, and gives a free Great Person of your choice.
    Eiffel Tower now give 5 Happiness plus 1 for every 2 Policies adopted.
    Chichen Itza now grants an additional 4 Happiness.
    Machu Picchu trade route gold increased by 5% and also gives a flat 5 gold.
    The Colossus now gives an additional 5 gold.
    Notre Dame now gives 10 Happiness, up from 5, and 3 Culture.
    Sistine Chapel Culture modifier reduced from 33% to 25%.
    Kremlin global city defense mod reduced to 25% from 50% but now gives 12 defense in the city where it's built.
    Cristo Redentor Policy discount reduced from 25% to 10% but now gives 4 Culture.
    Pentagon upgrade cost reduced to 33% from 50% but now gives 3 Culture.
    Sydney Opera House moved to Mass Media and gives 50% Culture in the city where it's built plus 4 Culture.
    Big Ben hurry modifier reduced to 15% from 25% but now gives a flat 4 gold.
    Himeji bonus reduced to 15% from 25%, and provides a free Castle in the city where it was built.


Civilization Unique Abilities

    Arabia: Bazaar now gives 2 gold on oil/oasis.
    America: Remove river start bias.
    America: Increase plot buy modifier to 50% from 25%.
    China: Great General trait reduced to 50% from 100%.
    Babylon: Great Scientist trait reduced to 50% from 100%.
    Germany: Now receives a 25% discount on land unit maintenance.
    Ottoman: Now receives a 67% discount on naval unit maintenance, and can upgrade Galley’s to Trireme’s.


Policies

    Liberty and Autocracy are no longer mutually exclusive.
    Freedom, Autocracy and Order are now mutually exclusive.
    Tradition
        Aristocracy now provides +15% Production when building Wonders down from 20%.
        Landed Elite now provides 1 Happiness at every 10 Citizens in each City.
        Tradition Finisher: +15% Growth and +2 Food in each city.
    Liberty
        Meritocracy: +1 Happiness for each city connected to your capital, and -5% Unhappiness from citizens in non-occupied cities.
        Republic now adds an additional 5% building production modifier.
        Liberty Finisher: Great Person of your choice.
    Honor
        Honor Opener now additionally provides Culture for each barbarian killed.
        Warrior Code now also gives 15% melee unit production.
        Military Caste now provides +1 Happiness and +2 Culture for each city with a garrison.
        Professional Army now reduces cost of upgrading units by 33% and provides +1 Happiness per defensive building (Walls, Castle, Arsenal, Military base).
        Honor Finisher: Grants gold for each enemy unit killed.
    Piety
        Piety Opener now provides a 15% production bonus on Culture buildings.
        Free Religion now provides only 1 free Policy but increases the Culture from Monuments, Temples and Monasteries by 1.
        Organized Religion now gives 1 Happiness per Monument, Temple and Monastery.
        Reformation now increases Culture in all cities with a Wonder by 33%, and starts a Golden Age.
        Theocracy now increase gold yield by 10% in cities with a Temple.
        Piety Finisher: -10% Culture cost of future Policies.
    Patronage
        Scholasticism reduced from 33% to 25%
        Patronage Finisher: Causes other players’ influence with City States to decrease 33% more per turn than usual.
    Commerce
        Naval Tradition policy now also gives +1 moves to embarked units.
        Commerce Finisher: +1 Gold per Specialist.
    Rationalism
        Rationalist Opener now increases the Science granted when completing Research Agreements by 50%. Stacks with Porcelain Tower.
        Free Thought now also increases University science yield by 17%
        Humanism now also affects Public Schools and Observatories.
        Rationalism Finisher: +1 Gold from Science buildings.
    Freedom
        Freedom Opener now provides 25% Great Person Points in all cities.
        Democracy now provides -50% Unhappiness per Specialist.
        Constitution now provides +2 Culture per Wonder.
        Free Speech now provides 8 maintenance free units.
        Freedom Finisher: +100% yield from Great Tile Improvements and increase length of Golden Ages by 50%.
    Autocracy
        Police State now provides 3 Happiness per Courthouse, and reduces the time it take to build Courthouses by 50%.
        Total War now provides +15% Production when building Military Units and +15 XP for new units.
        Autocracy Finisher: 30 turn attack bonus of +20%.
    Order
        Order Opener now provides +1 Happiness per City.
        Socialism and Planned Economy swapped places.
        Socialism buff to 15% reduction in building maintenance from 10%.
        Planned Economy now increases Science yield by 25% in cities with a Factory.
        Communism now provides 2 Production and 10% Production towards buildings in each city.
        Order Finisher: +1 Food/Production/Science/Gold/Culture per city.


Technology

    Reduced cost of Calendar, Civil Service, Iron Working, Gunpowder, Rifling and Dynamite.
    Scaled up costs of all sciences starting in the mid-renaissance era and on (larger increases later on).
    Metal Working requires Construction.
    Railroad now requires Dynamite.
    Radar now requires Combustion.
    Globalization requires Computers, and the cost is increased.
    Computers require Radar.
    Particle Physics no longer requires Globalization (Space victory now possible without overlapping Diplomatic victory).
    Future Tech requires Globalization.
    Tech Aesthetics: moved Dynamite and all future technologies around by 1 position for better alignment.


Units/Combat

    Destroyers no longer start with extra sight.
    Extra Sight promotions are now lost with upgrade (Caravel).
    Great General promotion spawning effectiveness reduced by 50%.
    Mohawk Jungle/Forest bonus reduced to 25% from 50%.
    Gunship anti-armor promotions now work correctly.
    Jaguar now gets Woodsman promotion.
    Minuteman now start with Drill I.
    Mohawk Warriors no longer require Iron.
    Carriers no longer require Oil.
    Destroyer moved to Combustion.
    Mechanized infantry moves reduced from 4 to 3.
    Galley now upgrades to Trireme.
    Ironclad now upgrades to Battleship.
    +1 moves for Tank, Panzer, Modern Armor, with no sight penalty.
    Increased combat strength of siege weapons to 50% of their ranged strength, increased intrinsic city attack promotions (10%/30% -> 20%/50%).
    Increased Incan slinger combat strength slightly.
    Increased Crossbowman and Chu-Ko-Nu combat and ranged strength.
    Decreased Longswordsman, Fighter, Bomber, Guided Missile, Jet Fighter and corresponding UUs strength.
    Removed Mandekalu Cavalry city attack bonus promotion (but still has no penalty).
    Reduced Tank, Panzer, Modern Armor to lower tier city attack penalty (-25%, instead of -33%).
    Aztec Culture from kills now stacks with new Honor Policy branch opener for double Culture killing barbarians.
    Boosted Chariot Archer to strength 4 and ranged 7 (Egypt War Chariot as well).
    Drop combat value of Berserker and Huscarl to match Longswordsman.


[MODDING]

    Fixed a bug in Lua where "Events.<SomeEvent>.Remove" was not behaving correctly.
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.CityCanBuyAnyPlot(ownerID, cityID) (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.CityCanBuyPlot(ownerID, cityID, plotX, plotY) (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.CityCanCreate(ownerID, cityID, projectTypeID); (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.CityCanMaintain(ownerID, cityID, processTypeID); (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.CityCanPrepare(ownerID, cityID, specialistTypeID); (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.CityCanTrain(ownerID, cityID, unitTypeID); (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.PlayerAdoptPolicy(playerID, policyTypeID); (Hook)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.PlayerAdoptPolicyBranch(playerID, policyBranchTypeID); (Hook)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.PlayerCanAdoptPolicy(playerID, policyTypeID); (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.PlayerCanAdoptPolicyBranch(playerID, policyBranchTypeID); (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.PlayerCanConstruct(playerID, buildingTypeID); (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.PlayerCanCreate(playerID, projectTypeID); (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.PlayerCanEverReseearch(playerID, techtypeID); (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.PlayerCanMaintain(playerID, processTypeID); (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.PlayerCanPrepare(playerID, specialistTypeID); (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.PlayerCanResearch(playerID, techTypeID); (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.PlayerCanTrain(playerID, unitTypeID); (TestAll)
    (Lua) Added GameEvents.TeamSetHasTech(teamID, techID); (Hook)
    It's now possible to have the tech tree "dead end" where the final technology is not repeatable.
    New graph datasets used by the replay viewer can be added by mods.
    Action Icons now use the database in the same way as other icons instead of using ActionIcons.lua.

Highlights include Hotseat and post-game replays.

There's still no specific ETA on the patch; just 'late June or possibly early July'.

Feel free to discuss the patch notes here. :)
 
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QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
A game being 'fun' or 'not fun' are not arguments for good or bad game design. Fun is very subjective. 'It's no fun, it's a terrible game' doesn't really convey enough information.

That said, I don't feel Civ5 is better than Civ4: Some of the adaptions seem troublesome, I am undecided on the 'no stacking'. On the other hand, no Civ game is better than Alpha Centauri, which was pretty much the pinnacle of the line.

The reasons for Civ5's failure have been stated already earlier in the thread and are best summed up by Sulla's review.

I played SMAC for the first time last week since it was released on GOG. For whatever reason I never got into it when it was new. I thought it was great because it is so similar to Civ4 even though it preceded Civ3 (e.g. social policies, research/money/culture slider, talents & drones, rock-paper-scissors combat, terrain improvements, etc).
 
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Anteaus

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2010
2,448
4
81
Statements like "chill out man it's just a game", "everyone has their own opinions" and "don't spoil other people's fun" are not an arguments for why Civ5 is not terrible.

You're correct, but that goes both ways. The same can be said that similar arguements on the other side don't mean Civ V is terrible either. Good, bad, terrible, fun, boring...these are all relative terms.

Civ V was rated above average critically, and was relatively bug free (individual experiences vary). AI aside, the only aspect of the game which can truly be critiqued is game design. Some people don't like it, some do...it's rather a mixed bag. Obviously there are those here who have ideas about the "ideal" design of a Civ game. I think you're all perfectly in your rights to those opinions. The same level of respect should be offered to those who see things differently. :)
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
You're correct, but that goes both ways. The same can be said that similar arguements on the other side don't mean Civ V is terrible either. Good, bad, terrible, fun, boring...these are all relative terms.

Civ V was rated above average critically, and was relatively bug free (individual experiences vary). AI aside, the only aspect of the game which can truly be critiqued is game design. Some people don't like it, some do...it's rather a mixed bag. Obviously there are those here who have ideas about the "ideal" design of a Civ game. I think you're all perfectly in your rights to those opinions. The same level of respect should be offered to those who see things differently. :)

I'm sure there is some kid out there that thinks all the poop jokes in DNF are actually funny, too. That doesn't mean DNF is a good, clever game. It just means there are some morons that like crap.
 

Anteaus

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2010
2,448
4
81
I'm sure there is some kid out there that thinks all the poop jokes in DNF are actually funny, too. That doesn't mean DNF is a good, clever game. It just means there are some morons that like crap.

Plot aside, there are many technical issues that make DNF a below average game. You have to judge a game from all sides to determine it's value as a product. You have to be objective. Have you ever tried playing Civ V as if you had never played an earlier release? The game itself stands well on it's own. It's only when you start comparing it to other games do the opinions on design come out.

If you're honestly going to tell me that the retail build of Civ V was in the same shape as DNF was when shipped then I'm not sure if we can ever find common ground. Also, the poop jokes in DNF are almost universally panned and has a meta of 56/100 based on 30 reviews.

Civ V currently has a metascore of 90/100 based on 70 reviews. Are you telling me that they are all idiots who wouldn't know know the difference between a good/bad game? User score is a 6.8 out of 10 based on 454 reviews, which is a lower but still respectable. I think if you look deeper, you'll find that the rift is with design and that's totally appropriate. The numbers don't agree with the premise that Civ V is a bad game, even if we were going to base it on opinion.

Bottom line, people can have their opinions but it doesn't make them right no matter how much they might think so, and that includes me and you.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
Plot aside, there are many technical issues that make DNF a below average game. You have to judge a game from all sides to determine it's value as a product. You have to be objective. Have you ever tried playing Civ V as if you had never played an earlier release? The game itself stands well on it's own. It's only when you start comparing it to other games do the opinions on design come out.

If you're honestly going to tell me that the retail build of Civ V was in the same shape as DNF was when shipped then I'm not sure if we can ever find common ground. Also, the poop jokes in DNF are almost universally panned and has a meta of 56/100 based on 30 reviews.

Civ V currently has a metascore of 90/100 based on 70 reviews. Are you telling me that they are all idiots who wouldn't know know the difference between a good/bad game? User score is a 6.8 out of 10 based on 454 reviews, which is a lower but still respectable. I think if you look deeper, you'll find that the rift is with design and that's totally appropriate. The numbers don't agree with the premise that Civ V is a bad game, even if we were going to base it on opinion.

Bottom line, people can have their opinions but it doesn't make them right no matter how much they might think so, and that includes me and you.

No.

If I made a sequel to chess called chess2, where every piece moved like a pawn, and the AI was so incompetent it could never win, it would be a bad game. There would be chess newbies who would give it good reviews because it is simpler than chess and fun because they can win every time, but it would still be bad. This is Civ5.

Just because reviewers that play it for only 30 minutes give it good reviews doesn't mean it is a good game. Just because a bunch of people that have never played another civ game before think it is good does not mean it is a good game. Just because you don't know of anything better does not mean it is good game.

Here is a good link written by a civ fan explaining the flaws of civ5:
http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/whatwentwrong.html
 

Anteaus

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2010
2,448
4
81
Games are designed for consumption. Just like food, if the person who consumes it likes it, then it is good food. Just because you don't like what's on the menu doesn't make it crap.

You can't prove that reviewers only played it for 30 minutes nor can you prove that people who like this game only do so out of ignorance. You can't say most people hate it because the numbers contradict that. You can't say that it's no fun, because there are plenty of people here who obviously think it is.

As to your link, no one denies a departure in design from IV, nor would anyone deny that there are bugs. AI is almost universally a problem with strategy games, so V can't be singled out here. Firaxis took a chance with Civ V, and obviously they did not make a better game than IV, but to say V is just crap is completely without merit. If you want IV version 2.0 than I suggest you write Firaxis and let them know. Otherwise, I'm going back to play V until VI comes out because I like it. You're welcome to accuse me of "not knowing any better" because I choose to ignore what faults V has in the context that they don't really bother me, but that attitude just makes people sound like snobs. If I want something more complex I'll go play HOI3, EU3 or War in the East.

I'm going to bow out now. I respect your opinions, but I still think V is fun. I'll post when I hit 100 hours.
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,539
287
126
www.the-teh.com
What does Civ V do better then Civ IV?

After patching Civ V is certainly better then when released, but it doesn't feel epic or engaging. It feels like Obama (V) ragging on Bush (IV) just because they had to be different and set themselves apart. The devs flat out said they didn't have the time and resources to fully test MP, fully implement 1UPT, or add in any of the great features that Civ IV had. Jon Shaffer bolted pretty quick after Civ V release, these things don't tend to happen when things are going good ;)
 

minmaster

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 2006
2,041
3
71
it's a pretty polarizing game for sure, but i think there are more people who dislike it than like it, that's for sure.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
What does Civ V do better then Civ IV?

After patching Civ V is certainly better then when released, but it doesn't feel epic or engaging. It feels like Obama (V) ragging on Bush (IV) just because they had to be different and set themselves apart. The devs flat out said they didn't have the time and resources to fully test MP, fully implement 1UPT, or add in any of the great features that Civ IV had. Jon Shaffer bolted pretty quick after Civ V release, these things don't tend to happen when things are going good ;)

1UPT, hex tiles, flow of gameplay, city states, stronger economic balance.

There are still some exploits, and the AI needs to dramatically improve, as well as all of the missing multiplayer features (save, reconnect, password-protected civs, etc).

I would overall put it slightly below 4, but with tremendous potential for further patching and improvements with expansions.