Civil War

[conjur]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: conjur
No, but you're saying a civil war in Iraq would be a good thing. More of the "ends justify the means".

Don't suppose diplomacy or something as radical as a political/geographical splitting of Iraq to avoid bloodshed would be an option in your world?

I didn't say civil war in Iraq would be a good thing. I'm just saying that it won't ruin the country.

That would be a great option.

And you know this how?

 

[conjur]

Seeking safety, Iraqis turn to militias
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20060724/wl_csm/osadr

Iraqi Shi'ite Militia Ready To Join Fight
http://insider.washingtontimes.com/arti...rmal.php?StoryID=20060724-122256-7766r



But the world is safer with Saddam behind bars!!

WHEEEEEEE!!!!

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Actually much of the civil rights movement took place in the 50s but many milestones (aside from Brown v Board) occurred in the 60s. It's my impression that the typical politician that makes laws catering to a minority ain't worried about black, brown, red, or yellow. The minority is usually a high 6- (or 7-) figure household.

Not true. Look at how many laws there are out there. Not being able to send your child to a better school. Not being able to rent your house to whomever you wish (whatever happened to the right to refuse service?). Hate crimes (a savage hypocrisy , entitlements to illegal immigrants. I could probably think of some more, but I think that will be sufficient.

If you want to send your kid to a better school you have plenty of options: 1) most districts allow transfers within (balanced against other concerns), 2) send them to a private school . . . granted best evidence is that the 'average' child won't do any better, 3) teach your little turd at home.

The law of our land is that nondiscrimination is a fundamental tenet of our society. You are free to discriminate to the extent you extract absolutely NO benefits from the broader society. So feel free to restrict tenants to retarded, Republicans but don't expect equal access to public services.

So hate crime laws impose upon your right to violate other peoples' rights? Dude, you need to seek some help.

When it comes to illegal immigrants, there's certainly a diversity of opinion as to what should be provided. IMHO, only lowlifes advocate the curtailment of basic education, emergency healthcare, or general protective services (police, fire). Technically, none of those are entitlements in the statutory sense but they are in a basic moral sense. I would certainly be interested in any evidence you have that illegal immigrants are collecting SS, Medicare, or Medicaid benefits as a function of legal authorization.

The fact is that there are laws trying to balance out the distribution of minorities do all of the schools. This weighs in if you want to transfer your student to another school (they won't always let you). True you can send your student to a private school or move (if there is housing available near the school you wish your child to go to), but the government monopoly of public schools is still taking your money and not completely offering you certain freedoms of public schools.

Housing discrimination is still illegal. If you decide you don't want to rent your house out because of somebody's race, you are breaking the law. That is an infringement of property rights.

Hate crimes are terrible. The punishment is WORSE if you decide to assault somebody because of their race (or other factors). The crime is the same.

I recently visited a governmend-funded clinic where the nurse giving the tour stated that it was "really necessary to help out the latino-community, many of which weren't born here."

OK, you apparently misunderstand these issues:

1) Policies favoring the re-distribution of children in a school district evolved out of a history of state and local efforts to channel resources to particular schools to the detriment of others. It still happens today. One way to blunt the corrupting influence of 'school funding gerrymandering' is a balance of kids. Most laws on the books are a function of historical misdeeds.

By NCLB, parents now have a statutory right to have their kid move from a failing school to a better school . . . IF there's room in the better school. The only way to expand the better schools is more money but you cannot send EVERY kid in the failing school to the better school.

The loaded language gives away your biases. Schools are not a government monopoly. Anybody can open a school. Hell, you can even open up a school using government money (charters). But if you want unlimited freedoms within the public school system . . . be prepared for unlimited taxes.

2) Housing discrimination is illegal b/c discrimination is illegal. It's not an infringement on your property rights. You are free to hold your weekly Christian Knights of Klu Klux Klan meeting on your property. Depending on your fire marshal, you can even burn a cross in your yard. But if you are within certain jurisdictions, you cannot shoot a gun, make a certain amount of noise, run certain types of businesses, etc.

3) I hear the punishment is worse for crack cocaine compared to powder . . . who gives a flip?! Violent criminals deserve prison. Violent criminals that fundamentally dislike a certain group of people . . . deserve even more time in prison. But if you want 'equality' we can just increase the punishment of all violent crimes to the hate crime level.

4) Government-funded clinic does to equal Medicaid, Medicare, or SS . . . our primary entitlement programs. Thanks to retarded policies in the Bush administration, even more of the burden for community clinics has fallen to state/local government and charities/foundations. But the nurse was certainly on the ball. It is really necessary to help out the Latino-community. A just and decent society looks out for everyone. It's in our best interest to find and treat as many people as possible with MDR TB, alcoholism, depression, diabetes, etc. Just like poor native-born Americans, prevention and the management of chronic disease makes a lot more sense than waiting for a disaster.

 

[BlancoNino]

1) Public schools are a government monopoly. When I was seeking a transfer to a different middl school, they said it wouldn't happen until after apple harvest was over. I wonder why? And no, we can't open up charter schools, at least not in my state.

2) Why should discrimination be illegal? It should not be against the law to be racist unless you are directly causing physical harm. In which case you should be charged with assault (or whatever), not a "hate" crime.

3) So fundamentally disliking a certain group of people is worse than fundamentally disliking just one person? I would have no problem with raising the punishment to hate-crime levels for all assaults.

4) I have no problem with charities funding clinics that help poor people (even illegal immigrants). I do have a problem with state, local, and federal government tax-dollars funding clinics.

Anyway, we're way off topic here. I guess my point was that politicians have invented laws that take away people's rights to cater to minorities.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: conjur
Seeking safety, Iraqis turn to militias
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20060724/wl_csm/osadr

Iraqi Shi'ite Militia Ready To Join Fight
http://insider.washingtontimes.com/arti...rmal.php?StoryID=20060724-122256-7766r



But the world is safer with Saddam behind bars!!

WHEEEEEEE!!!!

Bad Bad news Bush better get his body bags ready. What a fool this man is.

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Our country fought a civil war and became a better place after it was over. Just trying to be optimistic...
I didn't say civil war in Iraq would be a good thing. I'm just saying that it won't ruin the country.

Optimism has its place in the world. But, unadulterated optimism without considering realism is a recipe for disaster (people aren't then prepared for what will really happen). So here is a touch of realism. History gave us a very recent example of what might happen in Iraq: Afghanistan. The two stories aren't 100% identical, but they are so close that they are worth comparing.

[*]Mid 1970s, Afghanistan had an unstable government from a military coup a few years earlier, Early 2000s Iraq had a stable government after a war a few years earlier (if you call Saddam stable). This is where the two stories differ, but the rest is similar.
[*]1978, battles broke out in a short war and shortly thereafter the USSR decided it wanted to force their form of goverment on Afghanistan. Afghan "holy warriors" were arrested and exiled. 2003, a short war started and shortly thereafter the USA decided it wanted to force their form of government on Iraq. Iraq "jihadists" were arrested and shipped to Guantanamo.
[*]1978+ USSR poored vast quantities of money into Afghanistan to build infrastructure and to train the Afghan army. 2003+ the US poored vast quantities of money into Iraq to build infrastucture and to train the Iraq army.
[*]1979-1988, after a short war period the instability just kept going, USSR was forced to have a prolonged and costly stabilization campaign. 1000 Soviet soldiers died a year. 2004-?, after a short war period the instability just kept going, USA was forced to have a prolonged and costly stabilization campaign. 1000 American soldiers died a year.
[*]1989-1998, civil war happened in Afghanistan, the Taliban eventually gained control, Al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden are the results of all of this. 200?, civil war starts in Iraq. Who knows what horrible government and terrorists will be the result.

Maybe Iraq's conclusion will be different than Afghanistan's conclusion. But so far, history seems to be repeating itself.

*shiver*.......