Civ 5 interview. First 'native DX11 game'

[tviceman]

I was reading the uber-cool interactive manual yesterday and it said the game has several levels of tessellation, which in itself is great news. Scalability is a good thing! Also, it's preloaded on my computer right now and has a "benchmark modes" doc file in the main directory. So it looks like we'll have (another) great game to test out the capabilities of all the latest dx11 cards.

 

[nemesismk2]

that is good news, another game to show what DX11 can do

 

[praktik]

I have - of course - pre-ordered this game out of loyalty. But I won't be playing til I get a new graphics card - and no, not for the tesselation.

Mainly cause my card is idling at 90 degrees celsius right now, and makes weird noises - and I won't be getting anything new til we hear more about the 6xxx series from AMD...

All that being said, fellow Civ addicts - when you find yourself going to work on a 45 minute nap for the 3rd time that week, remember, you're not alone: http://www.civanon.org

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

I was reading the uber-cool interactive manual yesterday and it said the game has several levels of tessellation, which in itself is great news. Scalability is a good thing! Also, it's preloaded on my computer right now and has a "benchmark modes" doc file in the main directory. So it looks like we'll have (another) great game to test out the capabilities of all the latest dx11 cards.

Looking forward to your benchies!

 

[Sylvanas]

PcgamesHardware always have good tech interviews.

more

Looks like they've employed all levels of the benefits of DX11- Tesselation, DirectCompute and Muti-threaded engine. Speaking of threading:

Civilization V, as far as we know, is the first fully threaded DX11 game.

Unfortunately, because no other games have used this feature yet, neither Nvidia nor AMD have publically released threaded drivers, so users may not experience all the benefits just yet. We decided to keep threading enabled for Civilization V, however, because we are continuing to work closely with Nvidia and AMD on their support for multi-threading. We expect publically available threaded drivers shortly.

So neither Nvidia nor ATI have released multi-threaded DX11 drivers yet. It will be interesting to see what benefits this brings when it arrives, lets hope we see more studios like Firaxis supporting DX11 and making use of our hardware.

Also : (on Tesselation)

This feature will be enabled automatically if your hardware has DX11 capabilities. We use tessellation for the Civilization V terrain, which adjusts the mesh's subdivision of the terrain as the user zooms in and out. Not only does it add detail, but terrain tessellation makes the game measurably faster on both Nvidia and AMD hardware (as much as 30% in some cases).

Finally Tesselation that does not tank performance but actually improves it as was intended.

I look forward to benchmarks in future- most notable would be comparing the differences in performance between 58xx / 6xxx and Fermi given the superior Tesselation capability of the latter. I wouldn't be surprised either if Nvidia is first to market with 'threaded DX11 drivers' as they usually are with these things though I'd like to be surprised.

 

[toyota]

I just skimmed through it but why would you call it native DX11 when in fact it is built on DX9 with added DX10/11 features?

 

[-Slacker-]

Muti-threaded engine

Does this mean we can finally have multi-core GPUs now?

 

[Sylvanas]

I just skimmed through it but why would you call it native DX11 when in fact it is built on DX9 with added DX10/11 features?

Civilization 5: Where are the innovations?
Developer Firaxis is proud to introduce its native support of DirectX 11 - in fact, according to Firaxis, DX 11 is the native mode for Civ 5. This helps increase the level of detail of the terrain, thanks to the tesselation feature. Scenes would load much faster and the texture resolution is higher. Waves could be animated in a more complex way. Particles and fog look more delicate. Highlights, high-resolution shadows and Direct Compute are further DirectX-11-features.

DX11 was designed to be backwards compatible with previous standards to simplify the development process, the fact a DX9 mode is present does not mean 'it was built on DX9'. Civ5 incorporates more DX11 specific features than any of the other games previously, notably through the introduction of a multi-threaded graphics engine

EDIT: Added link to AT's article

 

[toyota]

Does this mean we can finally have multi-core GPUs now?

that feature appears to be cpu related.

 

[toyota]

DX11 was designed to be backwards compatible with previous standards to simplify the development process, the fact a DX9 mode is present does not mean 'it was built on DX9'. Civ5 incorporates more DX11 specific features than any of the other games previously, notably through the introduction of a multi-threaded graphics engine.

I obviously have not paid much attention to DX11. lol. so a native DX10 game like Shattered Horizon isn't backwards compatible to DX9 but a native DX11 game is? thats pretty interesting and hopefully more game makers will make use of that. problem is how can we tell a native DX11 game from one that just maybe tacks on all the features?

 

[-Slacker-]

(Filler)

 

[toyota]

(Filler)

don't worry, gpus are technically already multi core

 

[FalseChristian]

I think it's time to 'upgrade' to Windows 7 Pro 64-bit. I love the Civilization series and since it's a DirectX 11 game I can't play it on Windows XP's DirectX 9 in all it's glory.

 

[Sylvanas]

I obviously have not paid much attention to DX11. lol. so a native DX10 game like Shattered Horizon isn't backwards compatible to DX9 but a native DX11 game is? thats pretty interesting and hopefully more game makers will make use of that. problem is how can we tell a native DX11 game from one that just maybe tacks on all the features?

It depends what the developer wants to do with it. The DX11 API can adress DX9, 10, and 10.1 hardware here is a good interview but it's up to the developer to implement it in their game. In Shattered Horizons case, I am not familiar with what went on but perhaps the developer simply did not want to make a DX9 version for whatever reason. As long as you are running Windows7 and DX11 you can make use of older cards using the newer API.

how can we tell a native DX11 game from one that just maybe tacks on all the features?

Well we probably can't just look at it and know, but if all the benefits that DX11 implements are present then it's probably a safe bet that the studio developed their game with DX11 in mind. The fact you *have* tesselation doesn't necessarily mean you've used it in the most optimal way, I'm impressed at the talk of performance improvements with Tesselation enabled instead of the massive performance hits we get in other games (*cough* Metro2033). It's all about using your resources wisely.

 

[Avalon]

It's a shame the game's multiplayer aspect is completely broken. If Firaxis would have put a fraction of the effort they put into making it a solid DX11 game into actually bug testing it, I'd be a lot happier.

As it stands, only single player is feasible right now, and even that has some quirks. The game is in desperate need of a patch.

I was fairly impressed that it did have a DX11 launch executable, though. I wonder what the differences are in terms of visuals with the DX10 branch v DX11. I only have an HD4850 so I won't know yet :\

 

[tviceman]

It's a shame the game's multiplayer aspect is completely broken. If Firaxis would have put a fraction of the effort they put into making it a solid DX11 game into actually bug testing it, I'd be a lot happier.

As it stands, only single player is feasible right now, and even that has some quirks. The game is in desperate need of a patch.

I was fairly impressed that it did have a DX11 launch executable, though. I wonder what the differences are in terms of visuals with the DX10 branch v DX11. I only have an HD4850 so I won't know yet :\

Every single game firaxis has ever released for PC has needed several patches before coming onto it's own. That said, Civ V is really fun but currently has many, many flaws and design oversights. Like I said, it's fun, but I think it's several patches and an expansion pack away from being able to make it an all around better game than Civ 4.

 

[Rhezuss]

If it's supposed to make the game faster...why everytime I load my game the terrain takes a $hit load of time to load it's textures?

At first, all I got is color hexagons...I have to scan the entire map for the textures to load on terrains, and it's annoying...

 

[Lonbjerg]

I just skimmed through it but why would you call it native DX11 when in fact it is built on DX9 with added DX10/11 features?

You cannot have a "DX9 game" with "DX10/11 tacked" on, it's a myth that needs to die.

 

[toyota]

You cannot have a "DX9 game" with "DX10/11 tacked" on, it's a myth that needs to die.

what does that mean? plenty of DX9 engines have simply just added DX10 and DX11 features.

 

[Lonbjerg]

what does that mean? plenty of DX9 engines have simply just added DX10 and DX11 features.

It means you are wrong.
If a game employs DX10 features it's DX10...not DX9 with DX10 tacked on.
You cannot mix DX9 and DX10 codepaths...it a broken myth, made by people with little or no insigt in to programming for DX.

The closest thing is DX11's fallback paths.
If you code a DX11 game is has an automated DX10 and DX9 code fallback path.

But what you are describing (DX9 with DX10 tacked on) is a false statment.

It's a simple as that.

 

[toyota]

It means you are wrong.
If a game employs DX10 features it's DX10...not DX9 with DX10 tacked on.
You cannot mix DX9 and DX10 codepaths...it a broken myth, made by people with little or no insigt in to programming for DX.

The closest thing is DX11's fallback paths.
If you code a DX11 game is has an automated DX10 and DX9 code fallback path.

But what you are describing (DX9 with DX10 tacked on) is a false statment.

It's a simple as that.

really so the x-ray engine used in STALKER did not just add DX10 and DX11 later?

 

[Lonbjerg]

really so the x-ray engine used in STALKER did not just add DX10 and DX11 later?

They added DX10 and DX11 codepaths, big difference.

They didn't tack DX10 or DX11 on to their DX9 codepath as such an undertaking is, quite litterally, impossible.

 

[toyota]

They added DX10 and DX11 codepaths, big difference.

They didn't tack DX10 or DX11 on to their DX9 codepath as such an undertaking is, quite litterally, impossible.

well its just the wording you have a problem with then? the way most people look at it, adding a DX10 or DX11 codepath would still be synonymous with "tacking on" since it is still adding something that wasn't there before.

 

[Lonbjerg]

well its just the wording you have a problem with then? the way most people look at it, adding a DX10 or DX11 codepath would still be synonymous with "tacking on" since it is still adding something that wasn't there before.

No it isn't.
A DX10 codepath isn't made up of eg. 80% DX9 code and 20% DX10 code.
It's all DX10 code.
With fallback paths.
You can fallback "downwards"..DX11 -> DX10 -> DX9

You cannot "fall-up" DX9 -> DX10.

Feel free to ask Microsoft if you doubt my words...they will tell you the same thing.

 

[Dark_Archonis]

Wait a minute, something I don't understand here. What are they referring to when they speak of multi-threaded graphics drivers? You're telling me current drivers from Nvidia and AMD, both of which are drivers for highly parallel graphics architectures, do not allow modern graphics cards to process multiple threads per clock?