City is knocking on my door for $5000.

[Eli]

I'm not sure if you could know ahead of time if it may happen to you. Here the cities make the homeowners pay for sidewalks, and clear them of snow. Probably other things too. Then in the rural areas if the town government approves public water or sewer you have to pay alot for the costs of bringing it down your road and connecting to your house.

Hmm... that makes sense I guess, about not knowing.

I guess I just don't really understand, I thought this is what taxes are for.

But it seems likely that with the type of place we're looking to buy(middle of nowhere - literally), we wouldn't have to worry about this in our lifetimes.

 

[Engineer]

Hmm... that makes sense I guess, about not knowing.

I guess I just don't really understand, I thought this is what taxes are for.

But it seems likely that with the type of place we're looking to buy(middle of nowhere - literally), we wouldn't have to worry about this in our lifetimes.

Most people don't realize that we have been BORROWING money for years (even if local, city, and state governments didn't directly borrow, they were subsidized by federal and or other governments which can no longer do so) to cover the shortfalls needed for these projects. Couple that with a shitty economy and even lower tax revenues, and this is what you get.

Just wait until it creeps into local fire departments, police, medicare, social security....you'll be "on your own" to pay for those services. If you or your street can't pay, tough shit.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Most people don't realize that we have been BORROWING money for years (even if local, city, and state governments didn't directly borrow, they were subsidized by federal and or other governments which can no longer do so) to cover the shortfalls needed for these projects. Couple that with a shitty economy and even lower tax revenues, and this is what you get.

Just wait until it creeps into local fire departments, police, medicare, social security....you'll be "on your own" to pay for those services. If you or your street can't pay, tough shit.

What I don't understand is how this borrowing continued on for so long. If any organization, whether it's a corporation or a government, is not breaking even or is in the hole at the end of the year, you'd think they'd revise their financial plans to ensure this does not continue. The big 3 are a good example of this. They were borrowing and borrowing and eventually burst.

If I found myself grabbing money from my credit line every month, it would not take me long to realize that I have more expenses than what I make, and I'd cut somewhere, maybe cable TV, or another luxery. You'd think these big organizations would do the same. In the case of a city it's most likely raising taxes, which sucks for everyone, but it's better than having surprise buttsex bills.

 

[KaOTiK]

What I don't understand is how this borrowing continued on for so long. If any organization, whether it's a corporation or a government, is not breaking even or is in the hole at the end of the year, you'd think they'd revise their financial plans to ensure this does not continue. The big 3 are a good example of this. They were borrowing and borrowing and eventually burst.

If I found myself grabbing money from my credit line every month, it would not take me long to realize that I have more expenses than what I make, and I'd cut somewhere, maybe cable TV, or another luxery. You'd think these big organizations would do the same. In the case of a city it's most likely raising taxes, which sucks for everyone, but it's better than having surprise buttsex bills.

Sadly people don't give a shit when it isn't their money.

 

[Lithium381]

I can see where they could decide to upgrade a service/system and declare that in 5 years they'll throw down the assesment...... or gradually increase property tax in a particular zip code or something...... but i sure as fsck don't hve $5k laying around for a lump sum like that....

 

[lykaon78]

In my city it, crap like this is a 10 year assessment added to your property tax bill.

Thats right. They are being communists. They are redoing all the streets in the city, and sent out a survey asking each household what things should be done during the street reconstruction. Everything from gas lines, sewer lines, etc. I want them to do absolutely nothing and my survey indicates that.

Now they are coming back and saying based on the responses, each household is going to have to pitch in $5000 for this street repair... All of them. So, looks like everybody is going to have the same bill, no matter what you listed in the survey.

Do you think they'll let me redo my survey to include everything?

Do I have any options to opt-out or to get out of this? I don't exactly have $5000 laying around. They are going to have a meeting on Oct 18th for citizens to come to city hall to ask about payment plans, etc. I figure I'll go with my pitchfork, but honestly, what are my options if any?

 

[Jumpem]

I can see where they could decide to upgrade a service/system and declare that in 5 years they'll throw down the assesment...... or gradually increase property tax in a particular zip code or something...... but i sure as fsck don't hve $5k laying around for a lump sum like that....

The city here told everyone on a certain street they had three weeks to have their sidewalks replaced. Otherwise the city would do it, and add it to your property taxes. Three weeks notice.

And property taxes already average 3-4% in central NY.

 

[Sonikku]

Most people don't realize that we have been BORROWING money for years (even if local, city, and state governments didn't directly borrow, they were subsidized by federal and or other governments which can no longer do so) to cover the shortfalls needed for these projects. Couple that with a shitty economy and even lower tax revenues, and this is what you get.

Just wait until it creeps into local fire departments, police, medicare, social security....you'll be "on your own" to pay for those services. If you or your street can't pay, tough shit.

But think of the JOB CREATORS. We can either have tax dollars go towards lah dee dah upkeep of cities and fire departments and shit or we can give it to GE when they decide to make IRS pay them money. We can't have it both ways.

 

[Homerboy]

our city does something similar to this. When they come around to repair the sidewalks the home owner is responsible for any/all repairs done to the sidewalk in front of their house. Those poor bastards in the corner houses get nailed double!

 

[LookBehindYou]

Well fuck, guess I'm the ignorant asshole that was wrong. I would've never in a million years figured that could be legitimately done. Shit. Guess all I can say now is, that sucks and I have no advice.

And to top it off I fucked up and did one of the top 10 ATOT no-nos, I used your when I should've used you're.

Double fuck.

 

[boomerang]

Everyone is stating that "Isn't that what you pay taxes for?" but the tax bases have gone down so much and every government from the Federal to the city government is running a deficit. I've said for years that the only people that will get paved roads (in the future) are the rich who privately pay for it. Federal tax receipts as a percent of the economy is at 60 year lows. Cities and states are near bankruptcy. Government ratio of workers to population is at a 50 year low.

Your blanket statement is frankly, horseshit. Real leaders plan for hard times and institute policies based on planning to reduce expenditures.

http://www.clarkstonnews.com/Articl...-Groveland-Twp-fund-balance-stays-strong.html

September 28, 2011 - Groveland Twp.- In August, Ken Palka, from the accounting firm of Pfeffer, Hanniford and Palka, reported on the township finances following the completion of the yearly audit. The board approved the audit ending March 31, 2011.

"We were ecstatic with the clean audit," said Bob DePalma, township supervisor. "It's better than I anticipated."

Palka reported about $293,000 surplus revenue. State shared revenues remained about the same as last year as about $400,000 came in to the township. The township remained on soild financial ground with nearly $2.1 million in the infrastructure fund, just over 200 percent based on a budget of $1 million. The fund is earmarked for projects such as road paving and emergency reserves.

"We have been proactive over the years and have frozen salaries in addition to not replacing postions in the township," said DePalma. "The reports are that state sales tax has increased so we could see an increase next year in state shared revenues—so perhaps next year it may be a little higher but at least no less."

"With the shape the state of Michigan is in right now, a $2.1 million balance gives lawmakers the wrong impression, so we can't leave the money in a general fund account," he said. Many projects we need to save up, thus we have a balance. It's just fiscally responsible."

DePalma said about $500,000 from the general fund was used to pay off a loan from Oxford Bank for fire trucks purchased about seven years ago.

"That should save the township about $12,000 over the length of the loan. The fire fund will then reimburse the township," he said.

Some of the infrastructure fund will be used on a 2013 paving about one mile of Oak Hill Road between Kier Road and Dixie Highway. The $1.5 million project will be paid for with 80 percent federal funding and shared dollars from Springfield Township.

Bolding in quote from article is mine. Look what can be accomplished when fiscal responsibility is applied. The easy way out is to say we need more and demand same. That's not leadership. We have too many folks that think living within a budget is just not possible.

This same township supervisor has been re-elected repeatedly. Can you guess why?

 

[Zenmervolt]

You have a very strange government system. As long as the roofs comply to building specifications there should be no legal way to pull this of. This is pure corruption. Perhaps the building materials of the new roofs where supplied by a friend of the HOA ?

Apparently you missed the part about it being a condo. When you buy a condominium you are only buying the interior living quarters. Common systems (e.g. heating, plumbing, exterior building maintenance) are shared by all residents. When you buy, you have to sign a contract agreeing to pay your assessed share of these common expenses. If you cannot pay your share of the common expenses, you are in breach of contract and the condo association is within their contractual rights to force a sale of your property.

This is something the buyer agrees to at the time of purchase. No-one forces the buyer to choose a condo.

ZV

 

[FelixDeCat]

.308 on the roof, problem solved at collection time.

Problem solved until the National Guard shows up with an Apache that takes out your .308 with a 30mm. 😱

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1d8tEQd0Ns

 

[jteef]

coincidentally, i watched a movie about this very thing today.

1. get the band back together
2. evade several hundred police cars, nazis and rednecks in two separate high speed chases
3. ???
4. pay the money to the city and go to jail.

 

[Wyndru]

This is nuts, I didn't even know things like this were possible.

 

[her209]

Your blanket statement is frankly, horseshit. Real leaders plan for hard times and institute policies based on planning to reduce expenditures.

http://www.clarkstonnews.com/Articl...-Groveland-Twp-fund-balance-stays-strong.html

Bolding in quote from article is mine. Look what can be accomplished when fiscal responsibility is applied. The easy way out is to say we need more and demand same. That's not leadership. We have too many folks that think living within a budget is just not possible.

This same township supervisor has been re-elected repeatedly. Can you guess why?

Did you even read the article?

"We have been proactive over the years and have frozen salaries in addition to not replacing postions in the township," said DePalma. "The reports are that state sales tax has increased so we could see an increase next year in state shared revenues—so perhaps next year it may be a little higher but at least no less."

So this Township of about 5,500 people gets money from the state that was collected through state sales taxes. The guy seems ecstatic that revenues will go up due to the increase in state sales tax.

Some of the infrastructure fund will be used on a 2013 paving about one mile of Oak Hill Road between Kier Road and Dixie Highway. The $1.5 million project will be paid for with 80 percent federal funding and shared dollars from Springfield Township.

80% of a $1.5 million is being paid for by the federal government and another Township.

I also found this article date 2005 where Groveland were fighting the closure of a Michigan State Police post located in their town.

 

[waffleironhead]

Its all part of living in a community and having the benefits of such community.
Want a fire dept? costs money
more police? costs money
sewers instead of septic? money
city water instead of well? money
sidewalks? money
roads plowed? money
paved roads?

I live on a gravel road, and one of my new neighbors started complaining about the gravel and how it should be paved. This is a township road, so he goes to the local board meeting and complains. They tell him they can go ahead and get quotes for him if he wants it paved, but he needs all of the rest of the people on the road to agree to split the bill.
It's been awhile since then, but iirc the bill was going to be ~50,000 for each homeowner. LOL, yeah he's plenty happy with the gravel road now.

People don't realize that these things cost money. They think that all improvements come from some magical place where the costs do not affect them directly. Someone else is always footing the bill.

 

[blurredvision]

Its all part of living in a community and having the benefits of such community.
Want a fire dept? costs money
more police? costs money
sewers instead of septic? money
city water instead of well? money
sidewalks? money
roads plowed? money
paved roads?

I live on a gravel road, and one of my new neighbors started complaining about the gravel and how it should be paved. This is a township road, so he goes to the local board meeting and complains. They tell him they can go ahead and get quotes for him if he wants it paved, but he needs all of the rest of the people on the road to agree to split the bill.
It's been awhile since then, but iirc the bill was going to be ~50,000 for each homeowner. LOL, yeah he's plenty happy with the gravel road now.

People don't realize that these things cost money. They think that all improvements come from some magical place where the costs do not affect them directly. Someone else is always footing the bill.

I don't think anyone is questioning that the stuff needs to be paid for, they are questioning why they are required to pay for stuff out of pocket when they pay taxes for this type of stuff already.

 

[waffleironhead]

I don't think anyone is questioning that the stuff needs to be paid for, they are questioning why they are required to pay for stuff out of pocket when they pay taxes for this type of stuff already.

Taxes are out of pocket. Call it a special assessment, one time fee(tax), whatever. It all comes out of pocket.
I dont see the difference.

 

[Engineer]

Did you even read the article?


So this Township of about 5,500 people gets money from the state that was collected through state sales taxes. The guy seems ecstatic that revenues will go up due to the increase in state sales tax.


80% of a $1.5 million is being paid for by the federal government and another Township.

I also found this article date 2005 where Groveland were fighting the closure of a Michigan State Police post located in their town.

Well there you go. Once the federal government starts seriously (lol) cutting the federal budget, the state and local/city government budgets will go to shit. You'll either see more and more of stories like the OP or you'll see services cut to the bone.

Next up...selling our highways to foreign countries who will charge tolls to pay for their upkeep......:hmm:

 

[TallBill]

I'd have a very difficult time to be convinced to ever purchase property.

 

[DrPizza]

Its all part of living in a community and having the benefits of such community.
Want a fire dept? costs money
more police? costs money
sewers instead of septic? money
city water instead of well? money
sidewalks? money
roads plowed? money
paved roads?

I live on a gravel road, and one of my new neighbors started complaining about the gravel and how it should be paved. This is a township road, so he goes to the local board meeting and complains. They tell him they can go ahead and get quotes for him if he wants it paved, but he needs all of the rest of the people on the road to agree to split the bill.
It's been awhile since then, but iirc the bill was going to be ~50,000 for each homeowner. LOL, yeah he's plenty happy with the gravel road now.

People don't realize that these things cost money. They think that all improvements come from some magical place where the costs do not affect them directly. Someone else is always footing the bill.

Some people elect intelligent people to serve on their town boards who live in the middle of their communities. Others elect people to their city councils who live in McMansions on the edge of their communities, and have no problem spending *other* people's money.

I don't think anyone is questioning that the stuff needs to be paid for, they are questioning why they are required to pay for stuff out of pocket when they pay taxes for this type of stuff already.

Because they're stupid enough to believe that paying a few hundred dollars annually in local property taxes is sufficient to afford projects that cost in the millions of dollars. Or, they're stupid enough to think that the city is just sticking all those tax revenues into a savings account at the local bank - that the city doesn't already have all those expenses mentioned above by waffle.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Problem solved until the National Guard shows up with an Apache that takes out your .308 with a 30mm. 😱

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1d8tEQd0Ns

You do not have to beat them...just fight them.

 

[Engineer]

Because they're stupid enough to believe that paying a few hundred dollars annually in local property taxes is sufficient to afford projects that cost in the millions of dollars. Or, they're stupid enough to think that the city is just sticking all those tax revenues into a savings account at the local bank - that the city doesn't already have all those expenses mentioned above by waffle.

:thumbsup:

 

[boomerang]

Did you even read the article?


So this Township of about 5,500 people gets money from the state that was collected through state sales taxes. The guy seems ecstatic that revenues will go up due to the increase in state sales tax.


80% of a $1.5 million is being paid for by the federal government and another Township.

I also found this article date 2005 where Groveland were fighting the closure of a Michigan State Police post located in their town.

Yeah, I read it.

The township has a surplus. What points are you trying to make?

My post was a reply to a blanket statement that every form of government is running a deficit.