Cities Increasingly Turn to 'Trash Police' to Enforce Recycling Laws

[woolfe9999]

The fact that's it's supported in muliple cities by stimulus dollars makes it a bit more than local. In fact, it makes it look like a pilot plan for something being considered nationally.

Keep poisoning the wells if it makes you feel better. The fact is, these programs have the blessing of our current administration.

The idea of fining people for not recycling has the support of the administration? Having a voluntary program for tracking waste disposal is not the same thing. Please provide a quote or some other source of information which proves that the current administration supports the manner in which this is being implemented in part of Cleveland.

This all started with you accusing someone else of fearmongering. By suggesting that we should expect this to be implemented nationally, fearmongering is exactly what you are doing. The irony is that I actually agree with you on the basic issue. I just think you're a hypocrit to call someone else a fearmongerer.

- wolf

 

[Amused]

The idea of fining people for not recycling has the support of the administration? Having a voluntary program for tracking waste disposal is not the same thing. Please provide a quote or some other source of information which proves that the current administration supports the manner in which this is being implemented in part of Cleveland.

- wolf

It qualified for stimulus dollars. Do you think the city misled the admin when it applied for the stimulus funds for the project? And the fining is just the icing on the cake. The whole program is an invasion of privacy.

 

[Daedalus685]

It is not the end of the world..

We have had mandatory recycling for the better part of two decades (small fines included). The bears sure come around less often now that they sent out the new compost containers. We are now fined (rather heftily) if animals tear open our garbage and anything compost-able or recyclable is found. There have been evictions from the base MQs for things as simple as throwing away cans (obviously has to be done regularly).

I guess I never saw it as an affront to my liberty.. but I suppose I did grow up with it implemented. I like the idea of recycling and given the state of wild life before mandatory separation of food waste I'm glad it is enforced with fines. I'd much rather the amount of crap I require stored for a long period of time at a dump be kept as small as possible. If you really believe that there is infinite space for dumps you should check out the crap that goes on whenever a city tries to build a new one... "Anywhere but in my back yard". Sure there is lots of "space" but there is VERY limited acceptable space, both from an environmental impact point of view and from a public toleration point of view.

Granted the crap we go through with radioactive waste is not the same as a regular dump.. but millions is spent to reduce the volume of even our sites clean waste as land is surely not free.

 

[woolfe9999]

It qualified for stimulus dollars. Do you think the city misled the admin when it applied for the stimulus funds for the project? And the fining is just the icing on the cake. The whole program is an invasion of privacy.

The stimulus money went for developing the technology the basic purpose of which is to track waste disposal. The city, presumably, is under no obligation to get permission for local ordinances it passes to fine people for not recycling. It has nothing to do with misleading the government. It's their city, their law, and it's highly doubtful anyone in the administration even knew about it as the ordinance was passed well after any stimulus money was received for the technology. Other municipalities who received money for this technology are not using in the same manner as Cleveland. Making the administration complicit with this local ordinance is dubious at best. I've never seen a statement anywhere from Obama or any other democrats in the federal government in support of this kind of idea, and by that, I mean mandatory tracking of personal waste disposal, with or without fines.

As for you icing on the cake comment, I don't think a voluntary program is an invasion of privacy. If you can opt out, it's your choice. The crux of the matter isn't the fine actually, it's whether it's mandatory or not. I definitely oppose it wherever it is mandatory. Am I worried that this will be adopted on a wide scale? Absolutely not. Let's have this conservation again say two years from now. You'll be proven wrong.

- wolf

 

[CycloWizard]

The article author does not offer that viewpoint. It quotes someone as saying that.

In any event, it doesn't blunt the purpose of selecting this topic or reporting it in the way that Fox reported it. It's about influencing elections by stoking fears of fascist "trash police" soon being on every street corner, prying into our inner most secrets. Any local story which can be spun into the usual "slippery slope" fearmongering will do.

- wolf

Exactly my point, which is why it's preposterous that you claim Fox News is supporting the libertarian perspective. While they are fearmongering, it's certainly not to support any libertarian position.

 

[BoberFett]

Sorry, that doesn't even work as parody of the my position in this thread.

- wolf

I wasn't attempting to parody you, it just seems to be the prevailing opinion by this forums loudest members that libertarians are evil and the free market doesn't work. I'm not really sure that recycling brownshirts are any better.

 

[MotF Bane]

So now do we get to factor in the man-hours + transportation & bureaucracy costs of the trash police as more resources spent to recycle?

So what? It's a government project, the money is unlimited, we all know that.

 

[marincounty]

I wish people would get as excited about the fact that once you put your garbage out in front of your house, you have no expectation of privacy for your trash and the police and any govt agency are free to examine your trash with no warrants.
Brought to you by a right wing Supreme Court, not Obama.

 

[DrPizza]

It won't last. As long as you're not littering, no one can "fine" you anything legally barring some obscure local laws IIRC.

Next county over from me: recycling is mandatory. It carries a pretty hefty fine PLUS a $100+ court surcharge. Many people have been fined. This started at least 15 years ago.

If Fox News were supporting any sort of libertarian position, they would point out the obvious solution: quit having public garbage disposal and move to a private model. Then, people pay for trash removal and get paid for/get free recycling service. The article clearly states that paying is a proven method for improving recycling - who would have guessed that a financial incentive could be used to solve a problem?

The previous city I lived in privatized garbage collection. You have to put a sticker on every item set out at the curb, which, for garbage, is pretty much limited to garbage bags. The sticker for a 30 gallon garbage bag was somewhere in the neighborhood of $3 last I knew. Generate 2 bags of garbage per week, $6 per week. And, there's a weight limit per bag (50 pounds, I believe). So, they take in well over $100 in fees per ton of garbage collected. Even if it cost them $50 per ton to dispose of it, think about it - they're "making" more than $1 per garbage bag. How many bags do you think a crew of 3 can pick up in an hour while driving down city streets?

One odd thing (that really pissed me off) was that one week, due to being on vacation, I didn't have a full bag of garbage, so I didn't set out any garbage. I did, however, set out the recycleables: a week's worth of newspapers, some cans, bottles, plastic jugs from laundry detergent, etc. They refused to pick up my recycleables since I didn't have any regular garbage & instead put a sticker on my recycleables stating such.



Lastly, if cities are being paid for recycleables - that people put out for free - what's stopping an enterprising person from paying people for their recycleables? I know that with scrap metal around the house, I save it up and make about 2 trips per year to a scrap yard. It's pretty sweet to have someone give me a few hundred dollars in cash, rather than to toss that exact same stuff into the metal recycling bin (that the county gets paid for.)

 

[heyheybooboo]

The fact that's it's supported in muliple cities by stimulus dollars makes it a bit more than local. In fact, it makes it look like a pilot plan for something being considered nationally.

Keep poisoning the wells if it makes you feel better. The fact is, these programs have the blessing of our current administration.

In case you haven't noticed (or are simply ignoring the facts) in the last 30 years we have closed 1,000s of leaking, stinking and obnoxious landfills.

During that time in America not only do we now reclaim about 30% of the waste stream (reducing the need for future landfill space), our greatest export to China is now our trash.

Modern facilities contain 80-mil liners and leachate collection to prevent groundwater contamination, and utilize compaction techniques which condense waste at 3x the levels seen 30 years ago - up to 700lbs per cubic yard (further reducing the need for future landfill space).

Yard waste is now shredded and sold (or simply given away to residents) for mulch. Construction debris is segregated from sanitary landfills and adaptively reused where possible.

In spite of these advances our 'modern' society still generates and disposes of more waste per individual than anywhere else in the world.

And despite your ignorance the cost of recycling the waste stream is still roughly half the cost of chunking it in a landfill.

So are you a man or a whining little drag 'poisoning' modern society?

As you bitch and complain about garbage and your rights under the Constitution, I don't hear you complaining about the reduced need for landfill space through reductions in the waste stream that means less use of the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution.

But being the hypocritic self-proclaimed Constitutionalist that you are, you most likely pick and choose the Amendments and law you like and dislike.

Typical of a self-centered Libratidiot.




--

 

[ElFenix]

The Authoritarian Socialist left strikes again.

It simply amazes me how the Constitution and Bill of Rights is so easily thrown out with the trash these days... and by the very same people who call themselves "liberal."

you're aware that states and any subdivisions they create - cities, counties, etc. - have plenary police power and so the Constitution and Bill of Rights don't necessarily and often don't apply to them, right?

 

[CycloWizard]

The previous city I lived in privatized garbage collection. You have to put a sticker on every item set out at the curb, which, for garbage, is pretty much limited to garbage bags. The sticker for a 30 gallon garbage bag was somewhere in the neighborhood of $3 last I knew. Generate 2 bags of garbage per week, $6 per week. And, there's a weight limit per bag (50 pounds, I believe). So, they take in well over $100 in fees per ton of garbage collected. Even if it cost them $50 per ton to dispose of it, think about it - they're "making" more than $1 per garbage bag. How many bags do you think a crew of 3 can pick up in an hour while driving down city streets?

One odd thing (that really pissed me off) was that one week, due to being on vacation, I didn't have a full bag of garbage, so I didn't set out any garbage. I did, however, set out the recycleables: a week's worth of newspapers, some cans, bottles, plastic jugs from laundry detergent, etc. They refused to pick up my recycleables since I didn't have any regular garbage & instead put a sticker on my recycleables stating such.

Lastly, if cities are being paid for recycleables - that people put out for free - what's stopping an enterprising person from paying people for their recycleables? I know that with scrap metal around the house, I save it up and make about 2 trips per year to a scrap yard. It's pretty sweet to have someone give me a few hundred dollars in cash, rather than to toss that exact same stuff into the metal recycling bin (that the county gets paid for.)

How did the city regulate your garbage collecting company? If they were as terrible as they sound, and the city didn't give them a monopoly on garbage collection, it sounds like a third grader could have taken over the place by doing the same thing for a lot less money.

 

[Amused]

In case you haven't noticed (or are simply ignoring the facts) in the last 30 years we have closed 1,000s of leaking, stinking and obnoxious landfills.

During that time in America not only do we now reclaim about 30% of the waste stream (reducing the need for future landfill space), our greatest export to China is now our trash.

Modern facilities contain 80-mil liners and leachate collection to prevent groundwater contamination, and utilize compaction techniques which condense waste at 3x the levels seen 30 years ago - up to 700lbs per cubic yard (further reducing the need for future landfill space).

Yard waste is now shredded and sold (or simply given away to residents) for mulch. Construction debris is segregated from sanitary landfills and adaptively reused where possible.

In spite of these advances our 'modern' society still generates and disposes of more waste per individual than anywhere else in the world.

And despite your ignorance the cost of recycling the waste stream is still roughly half the cost of chunking it in a landfill.

So are you a man or a whining little drag 'poisoning' modern society?

As you bitch and complain about garbage and your rights under the Constitution, I don't hear you complaining about the reduced need for landfill space through reductions in the waste stream that means less use of the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution.

But being the hypocritic self-proclaimed Constitutionalist that you are, you most likely pick and choose the Amendments and law you like and dislike.

Typical of a self-centered Libratidiot.




--

Pick and choose? Bullshit. Please PLEASE present a post from me on these forums where I have failed to stand up for a liberty or freedom.

Self centered my ass.

As for your argument, much of it is hype and myth, the rest, a weak excuse for throwing away our 4th Amendment rights. In fact, no matter how good of an argument you make, it will NEVER be good enough to take away my civil rights.

This whole thing reminds me of the Patriot Act, and how giving up our privacy to the government was supposed to make us "safer." Now giving up our privacy to government scrutiny supposed to "save mother earth." BULLSHIT!!! Neither argument is sound, because my rights CANNOT be sacrificed for the "greater good." Not only is it unconstitutional, IT NEVER WORKS. We're left with no civil rights and we still have whatever problem they were trying to fix.

Try to remember this: No problem is EVER fixed by giving up your civil rights and freedoms. NONE.

But the Authoritarians on both sides of the political spectrum seem to ALWAYS jerk their knees and assume taking away yet another freedom or right is the answer. That more government control over our lives is the answer. And yet... after all these years of increasing control, are we ANY better off because of it? Nope.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Pick and choose? Bullshit. Please PLEASE present a post from me on these forums where I have failed to stand up for a liberty or freedom.

Self centered my ass.

As for your argument, much of it is hype and myth, the rest, a weak excuse for throwing away our 4th Amendment rights. In fact, no matter how good of an argument you make, it will NEVER be good enough to take away my civil rights.

This whole thing reminds me of the Patriot Act, and how giving up our privacy to the government was supposed to make us "safer." Now giving up our privacy to government scrutiny supposed to "save mother earth." BULLSHIT!!! Neither argument is sound, because my rights CANNOT be sacrificed for the "greater good." Not only is it unconstitutional, IT NEVER WORKS. We're left with no civil rights and we still have whatever problem they were trying to fix.

Try to remember this: No problem is EVER fixed by giving up your civil rights and freedoms. NONE.

But the Authoritarians on both sides of the political spectrum seem to ALWAYS jerk their knees and assume taking away yet another freedom or right is the answer. That more government control over our lives is the answer. And yet... after all these years of increasing control, are we ANY better off because of it? Nope.

LOL. Ignore the environmental and costs associated with shipping trash out of state/country. Civil rights and freedoms in regards to trash? Hire a private trash collector. Putting trash out on the sidewalk makes it public.

I see ignorant people.

 

[Amused]

LOL. Ignore the environmental and costs associated with shipping trash out of state/country. Civil rights and freedoms in regards to trash? Hire a private trash collector. Putting trash out on the sidewalk makes it public.

I see ignorant people.

The issue is simple: The 4th Amendment makes us free from government intrusion in our private lives. Wanna have Nazi garbage collectors? Go private and allow competition. That way, you can agree to give up your privacy. But as long as the GOVERNMENT is collecting my trash, or a government sponsored monopoly, I do not have a choice and neither do they. They have no right to monitor my trash. Period. It is a violation of my 4th amendment rights.

The people in these government pilot progams have NO choice in garbage collectors.

Oh, and BTW? My trash is collected from private property, not a public street. Many collections are. As long as that can is on private property, it is NOT public. Moreover, as long as it is in a PRIVATE (or rented) CAN, even on a public street, it is STILL private.

The green movement is pushing to have our enegry consumption monitored, and now our waste production. What I use and what I throw away is NOT the government's business. It is CLEARLY protected under the 4th Amendment.

 

[CycloWizard]

LOL. Ignore the environmental and costs associated with shipping trash out of state/country. Civil rights and freedoms in regards to trash? Hire a private trash collector. Putting trash out on the sidewalk makes it public.

I see ignorant people.

So I would have to pay twice to have my garbage collected once, or do I get to opt out of paying the government to spy on me?

 

[ShawnD1]

The very idea that we could get fined for that because we don't generate enough trash is mind-boggling.

Jack your neighbor's garbage in order to fill up your can.

I just sort of skimmed the article. Did it say how it measures how much you are recycling? Is it just by weight? Put rocks in the recycling to weigh it down.