Cisco small business devices rating and feature set

[Texashiker]

I was looking at buying 2 new wireless firewalls with site-to-site vpn. After looking through the reviews at newegg and amazon, and reading the features of the devices, it seems that cisco is dropping the ball on small business. We have 2 remote offices we need to connect to the main office. There is a server here at the main office the workers at the remote offices need access to.

One device I was looking at was the Cisco Small Business RV215W, which has a single site-to-site vpn. A single site-to-site vpn? Really? The RV042 which has been on the market for 6 or 7 years supplies 50 site-to-site vpn tunnels.

Another device I was looking at was the Cisco RV110w, but it does not supply a single site-to-site vpn. How can a company market something as being targeted towards small business when it does not offer a single site-to-site vpn?

Then there are the review at newegg and amazon. Some of the cisco got terrible reviews. I know some of the reviewers can be hateful, and some of the reviews sound like the reviewer are not very experienced. But for a cisco device to get more 1 star ratings then 5 star ratings, something has to be wrong.

Due to the negative reviews and lack of features in the cisco small business devices, I decided to go with a ZyXEL. It was on sale anyway.

 

[Mushkins]

Cisco has always sort of half-assed it with their small business solutions. Their small business VoIP stuff is downright scary in how unstable and buggy it is considering how much it costs. Their business model has always been about the enterprise solution with an active and dedicated in-house support team.

 

[cubby1223]

The RV110w is like $70 to purchase, it's not going to have a large feature set. The RV215w is around $90.

I've used the RV120w in seven or eight locations, including a set of 5 offices vpn'd together with each other. Most negative reviews for the product were either on a very old firmware, or they are trying to do very complex networking setups - $120 router paired with a $500 switch and a $500 access point, of course it may not have all the feature support for that.

Then there is the RV180w, then the RV220w, each a little more expensive, each with more vpn connection options.

You're looking at the very bottom range of routers in your post. But if you want to buy ZyXEL, you should be satisfied with it.

 

[Lithium381]

What is your budget? You can get some of Cisco's ISR routers like the 800 series or 1800 series with wireless for a decent price and they run standard cisco IOS feature sets

 

[Texashiker]

You're looking at the very bottom range of routers in your post. But if you want to buy ZyXEL, you should be satisfied with it.

The remote offices only have a handful of employees. No server, its just a peer-to-peer network.

I've used the RV120w in seven or eight locations, including a set of 5 offices vpn'd together with each other.

This goes back to the features that I talked about in the op, the RV120w does not even have a gigabit port. Shouldn't a switch have at least 1 gigabit port?

What is your budget? You can get some of Cisco's ISR routers like the 800 series or 1800 series with wireless for a decent price and they run standard cisco IOS feature sets

I was looking at around $100 a below.

 

[m1ldslide1]

I'm not familiar with those exact models, but keep in mind that Cisco acquired Linksys a while back and re-branded a bunch of that consumer-grade stuff as "cisco". Any sort of true integration never really happened - including customer support - and Cisco has now sold off that business to Belkin I think.

Long story short, Cisco isn't necessarily a leader in SMB products just because they lead in the enterprise. If you're looking at $100 or below you'll do well to evaluate the options...

 

[ch33zw1z]

This goes back to the features that I talked about in the op, the RV120w does not even have a gigabit port. Shouldn't a switch have at least 1 gigabit port?

What exactly do you need gigabit for? If you want gigabit at the site, get a gigabit switch and put it between the users and the RV120w, problem solved.

Chances are you won't have gigabit between sites, so I can only assume this is what you mean.

 

[Texashiker]

What exactly do you need gigabit for? If you want gigabit at the site, get a gigabit switch and put it between the users and the RV120w, problem solved.

Shouldn't I at least have the option?

gigabit is just about standard on everything these days. From desktops, laptops, bare motherboards, switches,,, but for some reason a small business router does not have a gigabit switch?

 

[ch33zw1z]

You have the option, it's just not in your price range. A switch and a router a two different devices serving two different functions.

Again, what exactly do you need gigabit for? Are you streaming HD media?

 

[Texashiker]

Again, what exactly do you need gigabit for?

Lets say I want to hook up a NAS for overnight backups.

This is supposed to be a small business device right? Aren't backups part of business?

So I have to buy a router, then buy a separate switch to replace something that is half a decade behind the times?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Lets say I want to hook up a NAS for overnight backups.

This is supposed to be a small business device right? Aren't backups part of business?

So I have to buy a router, then buy a separate switch to replace something that is half a decade behind the times?

This device is not meant to support nightly backups for your local NAS, it will support remote backups and secure the connections in between sites.

The answer to your question is yes, because you're buying entry level gear.

Just think of it this way. The entry level gear will still saturate the entry level NAS disks.

 

[Texashiker]

This device is not meant to support nightly backups for your local NAS, it will support remote backups and secure the connections in between sites.

You are just making excuses for cisco using outdated technology in their products.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You are just making excuses for cisco using outdated technology in their products.

lol...sorry you don't agree. So what type of enterprise NAS will you be buying?

 

[Texashiker]

lol...sorry you don't agree. So what type of enterprise NAS will you be buying?

Asked for an example, I gave you one, and you still make excuses.

Besides the gigabite port, what about reducing the number of site-to-site vpn options?

Why can a 7 year old linksys small business router offer 50 vpn connections, but a newer cisco small business router only offers 1? Other brandnames in the same price range offer more features than Cisco.

 

[ch33zw1z]

And you bought one that isn't Cisco. it's the free market at work.

In case you haven't gotten the hint, Cisco doesn't really care about your small business needs. And that point was made in the first response to you.

In terms of your example, your need for Gbit entirely depends on what NAS your getting, location of the NAS (local or remote), and amount of data to be backed up.

I'm in no way making excuses, you get what you pay for. Hope the Zyxel treats you right. Cisco's not in the business of catering to customers looking to spend very small amounts of money.

Hint: they want you to spend more just to get a "Cisco" product that will fit your needs.

 

[Texashiker]

Cisco's not in the business of catering to customers looking to spend very small amounts of money.

For our main office, 3 internal servers and about 25 workstations, I went with the Cisco Small Business SRP541W.

Even at $470 it only offers 5 site-to-site vpn connections.

Its like cisco is trying to force small businesses to go with another product.

 

[kevnich2]

Asked for an example, I gave you one, and you still make excuses.

Besides the gigabite port, what about reducing the number of site-to-site vpn options?

Why can a 7 year old linksys small business router offer 50 vpn connections, but a newer cisco small business router only offers 1? Other brandnames in the same price range offer more features than Cisco.

Your price range is definitely more in the soho range. Business class products demand business class prices. As cheesewiz posted, a router really has no need for a gigabit ethernet port. A router is designed to direct communication between your network and the internet (routes between two networks). Unless your internet connection is >100mb/s, you have no need for a gigabit port. A properly designed business network has separate components, (separate router, separate network switch, separate access point) to facilitate maximum uptime and reliability. I have never understood why business people want everything contained in one box and then complain afterwards that the performance sucks or things don't work correctly.

If you want business class equipment at a decent price range, as far as a firewall/router is concerned, I would recommend looking at sonicwall. They usually include up to 5 site to site vpn's and 2 dial in vpn types. You can also look at a cisco ASA firewall as well, price should be similar to sonicwall. I don't at all recommend trying to use a firewall/router to connect all your devices to. Get a separate 8,12,16,24 or 48 port switch to connect devices to.

 

[cubby1223]

Shouldn't I at least have the option?

gigabit is just about standard on everything these days. From desktops, laptops, bare motherboards, switches,,, but for some reason a small business router does not have a gigabit switch?

What exactly are you trying to say? Cisco has their lineup of products, you can either choose to buy one or not to buy one.

But when you complain of the RV110w having 10/100mbit ports and 1 site-2-site vpn, when you just need to look at the RV220w with gigabit and 25 site-2-site vpn support, look at that product instead, and compare the price of that router with the alternative from ZyXEL.

Sheesh

 

[Ayah]

Cisco small business products have always (to me) been a fiasco. It's usually better to hit up low end enterprise equipment.

 

[Texashiker]

What exactly are you trying to say? Cisco has their lineup of products, you can either choose to buy one or not to buy one.

But when you complain of the RV110w having 10/100mbit ports and 1 site-2-site vpn, when you just need to look at the RV220w with gigabit and 25 site-2-site vpn support,

And the SRP541W that cost twice as much as the RV220w only offers 5 site-to-site vpn connections.

Its gotten to the point where cisco is not even an option for small business. One device offers this, another device offers that, and nothing offers a basic feature set in a small business price.

 

[kevnich2]

And the SRP541W that cost twice as much as the RV220w only offers 5 site-to-site vpn connections.

Its gotten to the point where cisco is not even an option for small business. One device offers this, another device offers that, and nothing offers a basic feature set in a small business price.

I am curious what, in your opinion, is a small business price? And what is your definition of a small business?

Cisco is really only a viable, reliable option in the medium sized business/enterprise market. For small businesses with smaller IT needs, I wouldn't even look at cisco small business. It says cisco but it's just re-branded linksys crap.

 

[Ayah]

I'd just go low end enterprise for small businesses if you need to go cisco.

 

[cubby1223]

And the SRP541W that cost twice as much as the RV220w only offers 5 site-to-site vpn connections.

Its gotten to the point where cisco is not even an option for small business. One device offers this, another device offers that, and nothing offers a basic feature set in a small business price.

Exactly! Because the only difference between the RV220w and the SRP541W is the number of site-to-site vpn connections.

 

[Texashiker]

I am curious what, in your opinion, is a small business price? And what is your definition of a small business?

For small business, I would estimate around $150, plus or minus a little bit.

Keep in mind these parts are made and assembled in low wage nations. How much does it cost to mass produce a circuit board, plastic box, assemble then ship to the USA? Even their tech support is offshored to india.

So yea, I think $150 would be a good price range for a basic firewall, site-to-site and remote worker VPN and gigabit ports.

My definition of small business is anything around 50 workstations or less, no public web servers, no public database servers, no web hosting,,, nothing like that.

 

[kevnich2]

For small business, I would estimate around $150, plus or minus a little bit.

Keep in mind these parts are made and assembled in low wage nations. How much does it cost to mass produce a circuit board, plastic box, assemble then ship to the USA? Even their tech support is offshored to india.

So yea, I think $150 would be a good price range for a basic firewall, site-to-site and remote worker VPN and gigabit ports.

My definition of small business is anything around 50 workstations or less, no public web servers, no public database servers, no web hosting,,, nothing like that.

The VPN feature set is where you jump into another category. Most SMB's have no need for VPN's, until they start expanding and jump into the next category. At $150, you can get everything there except for VPN. If you need GOOD business class VPN support and you've jumped into the $400-$500 category. The main differences in cost have nothing to do with where the parts are assembled but everything to do with features needed and support for the product. For $150, good luck getting someone on the phone to help you when you're having a problem and your business is down. For $500 for a mid class firewall, I can usually find plenty of help and support if I have a problem - difference between soho and business is the support.

If the business depends upon the internet/vpn/electronic data for survival, you don't spend $150 on a firewall. That's the cost of doing business.