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CIA wrongly "renditions" German citizen, tries to hide their culpability

shira

shira

Diamond Member
Not only does the U.S. government engage is a gross abuse of human rights, but it wants to hide its mistakes to avoid legal challenge.

Since when is trying to hide illegal behavior a justification for making things classified?

A completely innocent German citizen was wrong "renditioned" for five months by the CIA. When the CIA realized their mistake, do you think it every occurred to them to offer some sort of restitution? Do you think that while the CIA is trying to decide if they've got the "right man" it would occur to them that the "right thing to do" would be to look after the dependents of the individual? Do you think there is ANY sense of responsibility for the welfare of those harmed by the CIA's actions? Think again.

A very long article.

US tries to hide wrongful "rendition"
 
It is sad that we just don't know what to say about cases like this... The CIA is Above The Law

I would bet that there are more than just this one..


Can you imagine the trauma and terror that his wife and family must have been feeling

Plus.. I didn't read the whole article but I did see the part where they tortured prisoners who were NOBODIES in the al-qaeda network .. and in one case the prisoner told them the name of a operative who was actually just some professor who had given him a bad grade..
 
Is this supposed to be some kind of surprise?

The Bush Admin, and the Rightwing in general, have no respect for the rule of law, the very foundation of our way of life. The very notion that we can somehow defend that even as we discard the principles of it is offensive.

"Free, Freedom, Liberty!" apparently means locking people up and torturing them on a whim... thumbing our noses at the sovereignty and laws of friendly nations...

"Freeing the Iraqi people!" somehow involves El Salvador style death squads... Perhaps they're representing death as the ultimate freedom... yeh, that's it, kill 'em all, let God sort it out. Reminds me of the Iranian Ayatollahs, 25 years ago...
 
The neo-con plan is to alienate the world. Really. That's the plan. They think we are so militarily superior we should just do whatever we want. Alienating the world is supposed to make America turn inward and disregard any world opinion. The neo-cons have determined they can control the flow of information and opinion in the US.
With the US people returning the hatred the rest of the world directs at us the neo-cons can enact their little JesusLand America where the rich can live free and the poor will remain docile.
 
I seriously doubt he was completely innocent.

He's German and probably voted for Schroeder and the Social Democrats. Since Schroeder wasn't "with us" that means he's "with the enemy."

This guy also had a Arab-sounding name . . . that's all the evidence we need to impose American-style justice.:disgust:
 
Cheney: Freedom Tickling for everyone!

The US is currently stalling the EU on revealing what international laws we've violated on their member countries' soil with the secret prisons and secret torture.



edit: I'm enough of a pragmatist that there are times I would approve of torture, but it should be extremely rare and done knowing that you could see jail time for it, so you'd better have a damn good reason. It shouldn't be done wholesale on dozens of prisoners with little or no justification as just part of standard prisoner mistreatment.
 
Originally posted by: dahunan
It is sad that we just don't know what to say about cases like this... The CIA is Above The Law

I would bet that there are more than just this one..


Can you imagine the trauma and terror that his wife and family must have been feeling

Plus.. I didn't read the whole article but I did see the part where they tortured prisoners who were NOBODIES in the al-qaeda network .. and in one case the prisoner told them the name of a operative who was actually just some professor who had given him a bad grade..
Click to expand...

🙁
 
Wait till this hits the mainstream news, another "mission accomplished" moment to farewell Bush's 8 years of loving freedom. That is if you're white and american citizen. (if even... patriot act is taking care of that)

 
Originally posted by: halik
Wait till this hits the mainstream news, another "mission accomplished" moment to farewell Bush's 8 years of loving freedom. That is if you're white and american citizen. (if even... patriot act is taking care of that)
Click to expand...

scary thing is this is already mainstream news in europe
 
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: halik
Wait till this hits the mainstream news, another "mission accomplished" moment to farewell Bush's 8 years of loving freedom. That is if you're white and american citizen. (if even... patriot act is taking care of that)
Click to expand...

scary thing is this is already mainstream news in europe
Click to expand...

this is probably a stupid quesion to ask but i'm asking because your profile says your in Iceland.
does anyone over in that side of he world really care? i mean, i've never heard of anything at all related to iceland in our news, do you guys over there pay attenion to anything we do?
 
Originally posted by: techs
The neo-con plan is to alienate the world. Really. That's the plan. They think we are so militarily superior we should just do whatever we want. Alienating the world is supposed to make America turn inward and disregard any world opinion. The neo-cons have determined they can control the flow of information and opinion in the US.
With the US people returning the hatred the rest of the world directs at us the neo-cons can enact their little JesusLand America where the rich can live free and the poor will remain docile.
Click to expand...

Can you cite evidence?
 
Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: halik
Wait till this hits the mainstream news, another "mission accomplished" moment to farewell Bush's 8 years of loving freedom. That is if you're white and american citizen. (if even... patriot act is taking care of that)
Click to expand...

scary thing is this is already mainstream news in europe
Click to expand...

this is probably a stupid quesion to ask but i'm asking because your profile says your in Iceland.
does anyone over in that side of he world really care? i mean, i've never heard of anything at all related to iceland in our news, do you guys over there pay attenion to anything we do?
Click to expand...
yes... alot
you see there is not that much going on in the local news so an unusual amount of people here follow whats going on in the rest of the world

 
Originally posted by: Frackal
Originally posted by: techs
The neo-con plan is to alienate the world. Really. That's the plan. They think we are so militarily superior we should just do whatever we want. Alienating the world is supposed to make America turn inward and disregard any world opinion. The neo-cons have determined they can control the flow of information and opinion in the US.
With the US people returning the hatred the rest of the world directs at us the neo-cons can enact their little JesusLand America where the rich can live free and the poor will remain docile.
Click to expand...

Can you cite evidence?
Click to expand...
pnac.. in a sense

 
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArtic...ERMANY-USA-PRISONER.xml&archived=False
update

German ministry probes what govt knew on CIA error

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany will look into a report that a government minister was told about the mistaken U.S. detention of a German man in Afghanistan but kept quiet about it at the request of the U.S. ambassador.

The Washington Post reported at the weekend that Daniel Coats, then U.S. ambassador to Germany, told previous Interior Minister Otto Schily in May 2004 that Khaled el-Masri had been wrongfully held but would soon be released.

"We are looking inside the Interior Ministry itself to find out what information we can get," ministry spokesman Bruno Kahl told a news conference.

He added later: "We want to find out what, if anything, was said."

Schily has been unreachable for comment. Opposition leaders have demanded a thorough investigation of the allegation.

The suggestion that a German minister and other members of the government of ex-Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder may have been involved in a cover-up to protect Washington from embarrassment comes at a sensitive time for the new chancellor, Angela Merkel.

...
Click to expand...
 
Where are the legions of Bush defenders?

Deep in denial, apparently, busily creating threads where "the Left" is blamed for the Right's arrogance, cruelty, disregard for the law and rejection of common decency.

Why, we'd all be free if we'd just goosestep behind their banners, sing their songs, chant the mantras, believe in the goodness of that cause... everybody would be innocent and free, until they're accused... nevermind the torture and abduction, the death squads, the lies and obfuscations.

After all, the ends justify the means, right?
 
"Any policy will sometimes result in errors, and when it happens, we will do everything we can to rectify it," Rice said at the start of a European tour overshadowed by allegations of illegal CIA methods against terrorist suspects.
Click to expand...
Technically, isn't that a lie? It's a bit of an obfuscation to start with . . . but it's quite obvious that they haven't done everything to rectify. In fact, they tried to hide it.

A new television report on Monday cited current and former CIA officials saying al Qaeda suspects had been held in Europe until last month but were then transferred to north Africa.
Click to expand...
Yep, I'm sure every country in North Africa respects human rights.:roll:
 
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
"Any policy will sometimes result in errors, and when it happens, we will do everything we can to rectify it," Rice said at the start of a European tour overshadowed by allegations of illegal CIA methods against terrorist suspects.
Click to expand...
Technically, isn't that a lie? It's a bit of an obfuscation to start with . . . but it's quite obvious that they haven't done everything to rectify. In fact, they tried to hide it.

A new television report on Monday cited current and former CIA officials saying al Qaeda suspects had been held in Europe until last month but were then transferred to north Africa.
Click to expand...
Yep, I'm sure every country in North Africa respects human rights.:roll:
Click to expand...

Technically it isnt a lie. She didn't say what she would try to rectify. Obviously this came to light when it wasn't supposed to. I have no doubt that will be something she will attempt to fix.

 
It really makes me sick that the huge double standards and hideous hypocrisy of the United States under Neocon rule is something that keeps leaking out to the public. What's going to happen to American prestige when our leaders appear before the Hague. It would be just infinitely better for our international reputation if we convicted and sentenced them here at home.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It really makes me sick that the huge double standards and hideous hypocrisy of the United States under Neocon rule is something that keeps leaking out to the public. What's going to happen to American prestige when our leaders appear before the Hague. It would be just infinitely better for our international reputation if we convicted and sentenced them here at home.
Click to expand...

But we're righteous and clearly the higher moral standard people and that makes all the difference.
 
The Bush Admin, and the Rightwing in general, have no respect for the rule of law, the very foundation of our way of life. The very notion that we can somehow defend that even as we discard the principles of it is offensive.
Click to expand...
The CIA has been operating for some time, and while this is one instance that has received media coverage, I am sure there are many more such abuses that never see the light of day.

The necessity of the CIA is without question...espionage, intelligence gathering, subterfuge...these became necessary tactics of the Cold War, and the institutions that utilized such tactics persist to this day.

The question this begs is...can a free society serve as a proponent of liberty, equality and freedom for its own citizens, while overstepping those boundaries to provide for its own protection? Our nation certainly has in the past, and using such tactics is not exclusive to Republicans. Kennedy was the President that envisioned and implemented the use of Special Forces, and other covert special operatives, to engage in cloak and dagger missions beyond the accountability, scope and visibility of American values. Eisenhower similarly set the tone for such tactics at the outset of the Cold War.

Let there be no doubt that forces exist in this world that are not exactly looking out for the best interests of America, or its citizens. America does maintain a prominant and unique role in the world, yet the world that the CIA operates in is very much one of secrecy, and sometimes doing what needs to be done in the name of national security.

It really makes me sick that the huge double standards and hideous hypocrisy of the United States under Neocon rule is something that keeps leaking out to the public. What's going to happen to American prestige when our leaders appear before the Hague. It would be just infinitely better for our international reputation if we convicted and sentenced them here at home.
Click to expand...
American hypocrisy extends well beyond NeoCon rule...during WW2, the Allies carpet bombed, and ultimately dropped the atomic bomb, on civilian targets...the justification was that doing so would ultimately save lives in bringing the war to a quicker end...yet the tenets of Just War strickly prohibit the deliberate targeting of civilians.

When do the ends justify the means, or the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?

I am in no way justifying the use of torture, intrigue or other human rights violations as a tool of national security...but that stance is one that only exists in an ideal world...there is no such thing as a victimless society.
 
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