CIA shutting down secret prisons, will end torture, will not use outside contractors for interrogations

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: theflyingpig
lol. Only fools will believe this nonsense. The secret prisons will still be built. The torture and killing will continue, you just wont hear about it on the news. Nothing has changed. Everyone knows this.

So Obama is misleading us? NO!

Yes, he is. And he is doing it very effectively. This is how things should have been done since the start of the war. The public simply can't stomach what must be done, so they should be sequestered from it. Everyone knows this.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: theflyingpig
lol. Only fools will believe this nonsense. The secret prisons will still be built. The torture and killing will continue, you just wont hear about it on the news. Nothing has changed. Everyone knows this.

So Obama is misleading us? NO!

I know you don't know your elbow from your arsehole but Obama said nothing about foreign nations using covert prisons which MI6 and CIA may or may not have access to.

I don't think the US has had more than one covert prison and even that one was run by Egyptians.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: theflyingpig
lol. Only fools will believe this nonsense. The secret prisons will still be built. The torture and killing will continue, you just wont hear about it on the news. Nothing has changed. Everyone knows this.

So Obama is misleading us? NO!

Yes, he is. And he is doing it very effectively. This is how things should have been done since the start of the war. The public simply can't stomach what must be done, so they should be sequestered from it. Everyone knows this.

There is a lot of truth in that statement but technically, it's just that the public don't need the details, just the outcomes of them. It's essential in an open society to know the results but not always the methods to get the results.

As long as it adheres to International Law, i have no problem with it, step over that line and i DO have a problem with it, mostly because i've been defending International Law under the Union Jack for all of my adult life.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: OCguy
Too bad he also said they would not pursue any charges against CIA agents who may have waterboarded.



Also, that huge prison they are building in Afghanistan (Guantanamo 2)....

Just because it isnt secret, doesnt mean they arent going to hold people without charges.


Some people are so niave its hilarious.

Personally, I don't think soldiers of any sort (CIA included) should be charged for following orders, unless significant charges are first placed on those who made those orders.

Interesting that you have no problem punishing the little guy doing his job and what he is told is his duty. I felt the same exact way about Abu. The lesser officers were the ones who the hammer fell on; not the higher ups that encouraged it.

I totally disagree!!!!!

IF they were given an order that violates the law then it is part of their duty to refuse that order.

The big problem we have in this case is whether waterboarding was illegal or not and at the time they were doing it they were told that it was ok and legal.

 

[ProfJohn]

Torture = bad, in pretty much every case

Secret prisons= not so bad, as long as they are used carefully and not abused.

There is a lot of benefit to keeping certain people held captive in secrecy. We just need to make sure that we provide the proper checks and balances etc etc.

BTW I thought these prisons were started under Clinton or perhaps even before???
I know the program of capturing these guys in secrecy was started by Clinton and expanded by Bush.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Holy fuck, I'm printing this shit out before he edits!

protip = he cant edit your quote

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Torture = bad, in pretty much every case

Secret prisons= not so bad, as long as they are used carefully and not abused.

There is a lot of benefit to keeping certain people held captive in secrecy. We just need to make sure that we provide the proper checks and balances etc etc.

BTW I thought these prisons were started under Clinton or perhaps even before???
I know the program of capturing these guys in secrecy was started by Clinton and expanded by Bush.

if you hold them in secrecy then they can say you tortured them there by having the same effect.

 

[nutxo]

If they are secret how will we know when they are gone?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: SirStev0
Are you kidding? If we threw in term limits it would mean that representatives and senators would actually have to do something with their time other than campaign. Oh, The Huge Manatee!

This isn't a term limits thread, but all term limits would do is reduce the accountability of the representatives to the people, as they look to rewards after that office instead.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Torture = bad, in pretty much every case

Secret prisons= not so bad, as long as they are used carefully and not abused.

There is a lot of benefit to keeping certain people held captive in secrecy. We just need to make sure that we provide the proper checks and balances etc etc.

BTW I thought these prisons were started under Clinton or perhaps even before???
I know the program of capturing these guys in secrecy was started by Clinton and expanded by Bush.

Better than I expected - but the next thing for you to realize is when there's no such thing as 'not abused', and the only choices are allow them, or don't.

Reminds me of when Israel's Supreme Court carved out an extremely narrow, specific exemption for physically abusing prisoners, which quickly turned into the routine abuse of thousands of prisoners in practice and to the point where they largely stopped even filing the certifications justifying it. Oh, well.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: theflyingpig
lol. Only fools will believe this nonsense. The secret prisons will still be built. The torture and killing will continue, you just wont hear about it on the news. Nothing has changed. Everyone knows this.

So Obama is misleading us? NO!

I know you don't know your elbow from your arsehole but Obama said nothing about foreign nations using covert prisons which MI6 and CIA may or may not have access to.

I don't think the US has had more than one covert prison and even that one was run by Egyptians.

Battery in your sarcasm meter. Check it.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: nutxo
If they are secret how will we know when they are gone?

Because Obama promised us transparency. He will tell us if something is awry.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: SirStev0
Are you kidding? If we threw in term limits it would mean that representatives and senators would actually have to do something with their time other than campaign. Oh, The Huge Manatee!

This isn't a term limits thread, but all term limits would do is reduce the accountability of the representatives to the people, as they look to rewards after that office instead.

Not if those term limits are a longer period than four years. 12 years, in increments of 2 or 4, may be sufficient to limit their currently endless power while simultaneously leaving them accountable to the people for their actions -- at least during the first 8-10 years.

As it stands, there are simply no limits to their powers and influence if/when they spend 20+ years in Congress -- especially when name recognition and blind partisanship seem to rule the day for many ignorant voters...

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: nutxo
If they are secret how will we know when they are gone?

There is also no mention of the secret secret prison.