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CIA Heart Attack Gun

Perknose

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
A real thing, which I have read about before:

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However, the hilarious part is recorded below, in which "some conspiracy theorists" have speculated that it was . . . somehow . . . used to assassinate, JKF, MLK and RFK. 😱

Friends, the truth is out there!

And some conspiracy theorists are WAY out there. 😎

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^^^ In the bonus situation, in the Senate hearings, they put it in the hands of Barry Goldwater.

Careful with that axe, Eugene!
 
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Extra special bonus: In the first screenshot, that's Sen. John Tower looking longingly up at the gun, wishing he had one.

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Lol no traceable evidence??? Okay fine, if going after a target alone. You can brass your dart. But if being a sniper in a crowd?
 
ksheets said:
Wouldn't the dart remain as evidence though, or am i overthinking this?
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"
researchers under Dr. Nathan Gordon, a CIA chemist, mixed shellfish toxin with water and froze the mixture into a small pellet or dart. The finished projectile would be fired from a modified Colt M1911 pistol equipped with an electrical firing mechanism. It had an effective range of 100 meters and was virtually noiseless when fired.

When fired into a target, the frozen dart would immediately melt and release its poisonous payload into the victim’s bloodstream. Shellfish toxins, which are known to completely shut down the cardiovascular system in concentrated doses, would spread to the victim’s heart, mimicking a heart attack and causing death within minutes."

They were not fucking around.
 
I'm skeptical. How does the frozen pellet survive the explosive force of the powder? Even if it's behind some kind of muzzle load patch, I feel like anything that could propel a frozen pellet fast enough to get it to go even 100m fast enough to break skin is gonna blow the thing apart. You'd also need something to keep it that cold long enough to leave whatever facility it was coming from (a van with a fridge?) to reach your target. It'd also need to be small to break the skin, which means it needs to be going very fast at the outset since there's very little momentum behind it.

I feel like it'd be easier to just shoot the person then play dumb.
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
I'm skeptical. How does the frozen pellet survive the explosive force of the powder? Even if it's behind some kind of muzzle load patch, I feel like anything that could propel a frozen pellet fast enough to get it to go even 100m fast enough to break skin is gonna blow the thing apart. You'd also need something to keep it that cold long enough to leave whatever facility it was coming from (a van with a fridge?) to reach your target. It'd also need to be small to break the skin, which means it needs to be going very fast at the outset since there's very little momentum behind it.

I feel like it'd be easier to just shoot the person then play dumb.
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Who said powder explosion drove the projectile? Compressed gas anyone? Like the CO2 carts for pellet guns today? Maybe compressed nitrogen or the like.
 
They said it's electrical. Maybe it is a "magnets, how do they fuckin' work" thing. 🤣
 
Meghan54 said:
Who said powder explosion drove the projectile? Compressed gas anyone? Like the CO2 carts for pellet guns today? Maybe compressed nitrogen or the like.
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I mean, I guess it could be pressurized gas behind an electronic trigger, that's still a hard sell though. Modern (read, last 20-30 years) air rifles are quite powerful, 1000fps+ which is in tickle distance from a .22, but
a) that's still .22 with hard water which doesn't carry much mass/kinetic energy compared to lead
b) I don't know that an engineered pistol could have hit those numbers in the 50s
c) I don't even know that you could use an air rifle to accelerate a frozen water bullet that fast. You'd have tons of efficiency losses from air leaking around the bullet as it fired.

Again, could be wrong about the above but it just smells more like propaganda to rile up some political enemies to me.

Edit: hell, if you're going to go through the trouble of modifying a freaking 1911 of all firearms, and stick a scope the size of the entire handgun on top of it, your not really trying to be inconspicuous at that point. Might as well just use a folding rifle, you'll get more power and accuracy, regardless of how you're firing the round.
 
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DAPUNISHER said:
"
researchers under Dr. Nathan Gordon, a CIA chemist, mixed shellfish toxin with water and froze the mixture into a small pellet or dart. The finished projectile would be fired from a modified Colt M1911 pistol equipped with an electrical firing mechanism. It had an effective range of 100 meters and was virtually noiseless when fired.

When fired into a target, the frozen dart would immediately melt and release its poisonous payload into the victim’s bloodstream. Shellfish toxins, which are known to completely shut down the cardiovascular system in concentrated doses, would spread to the victim’s heart, mimicking a heart attack and causing death within minutes."

They were not fucking around.
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You guys believe nonsene bullshit CIA crap too much.

You really think they could noiselessly fire a projectile? Give me a fucking break. This isn't Hollywood where a pillow suddenly makes a gun almost totally silent.

And yeah, if you think the frozen dart would function like that I don't know what else to say. How are you gonna keep it frozen? In the 70s and before? You think an apparatus that would keep it frozen would be inconspicuous?

You guys are as deluded as the conspiracy nutters.

We also know that the CIA just claims this shit is real but most of this type of stuff never worked and if you think about it you'd realize why it wouldn't work, but people want to believe so strongly.

Meghan54 said:
Who said powder explosion drove the projectile? Compressed gas anyone? Like the CO2 carts for pellet guns today? Maybe compressed nitrogen or the like.
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It literally says it was fired by an electrical mechanism (so they essentially seem to be claiming this is a railgun, which would not be silent, plus uh yeah pretty sure not feasible with the technology of the time). There's no projectile that you can fire out of a gun at such velocity that it could achieve the claims made about this, that would make it silent, so even if it used CO2 it still wouldn't be silent.

Plus, its a fucking gun, and this one has a giant fucking scope on it, sorry that's not inconspicuous (yeah I'm sure someone looking through a scope while holding a pistol would be super inconspicuous) and especially if you have to be within 100m (hell point blank would make much more sense), and a frozen dart would not survive being fired like that, so there would have to be an actual dart that would also leave evidence.

This is not a real thing. You guys are getting duped by one of the most well known full of shit organizations in the history of the world. Seriously, look up all their little gadgets, very very few of them worked, it was all just a dog and pony show of bullshit and its laughable if you actually think about it.
 
brycejones said:
I'm going to be honest I expected to find some Jewish Space Laser level bullshit in this thread.
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I mean, pretty much. Frankly that is more believable than this thing is. Also the space laser is real, I saw Real Genius, we already know that Val Kilmer is a spy! Top Secert and The Saint were documentaries! That's more believable than the CIA's frozen blowfish toxin ice dart rail gun. Maybe the CIA shouldn't have done so many lines of coke before they come up with their magic guns and other gadgets that are sillier than the spring loaded teeth grappling hook from the Goonies.
 
darkswordsman17 said:
You guys believe nonsene bullshit CIA crap too much.

You really think they could noiselessly fire a projectile? Give me a fucking break. This isn't Hollywood where a pillow suddenly makes a gun almost totally silent.

And yeah, if you think the frozen dart would function like that I don't know what else to say. How are you gonna keep it frozen? In the 70s and before? You think an apparatus that would keep it frozen would be inconspicuous?

You guys are as deluded as the conspiracy nutters.

We also know that the CIA just claims this shit is real but most of this type of stuff never worked and if you think about it you'd realize why it wouldn't work, but people want to believe so strongly.



It literally says it was fired by an electrical mechanism (so they essentially seem to be claiming this is a railgun, which would not be silent, plus uh yeah pretty sure not feasible with the technology of the time). There's no projectile that you can fire out of a gun at such velocity that it could achieve the claims made about this, that would make it silent, so even if it used CO2 it still wouldn't be silent.

Plus, its a fucking gun, and this one has a giant fucking scope on it, sorry that's not inconspicuous (yeah I'm sure someone looking through a scope while holding a pistol would be super inconspicuous) and especially if you have to be within 100m (hell point blank would make much more sense), and a frozen dart would not survive being fired like that, so there would have to be an actual dart that would also leave evidence.

This is not a real thing. You guys are getting duped by one of the most well known full of shit organizations in the history of the world. Seriously, look up all their little gadgets, very very few of them worked, it was all just a dog and pony show of bullshit and its laughable if you actually think about it.
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Those are just the kinds of things a CIA cover-up operative would say...
 
Clearly we are really talking about is an evacuated silver glazed double walled thermos like glass blow gun frozen to cryogenic temperatures in dry ice, right?
 
Moonbeam said:
Clearly we are really talking about is an evacuated silver glazed double walled thermos like glass blow gun frozen to cryogenic temperatures in dry ice, right?
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Well suffice to say I came to the exact same conclusion except for the fact that the projectile is launched from an unknown pneumatically powered dispenser that looked vaguely familiar what with it being ~.250" in diameter and cloaked in spiraling red and white stripes. So I contacted a trusted expert authority on such devices to verify by the name of Austin Powers (of which curiously sounded vaguely familiar) and he outright disclaimed such a weapon and the tech behind it ever existed while he was trying to turn a golfcart around in some secret tunnel he was in.
 
tweaker2 said:
Well suffice to say I came to the exact same conclusion except for the fact that the projectile is launched from an unknown pneumatically powered dispenser that looked vaguely familiar what with it being ~.250" in diameter and cloaked in spiraling red and white stripes. So I contacted a trusted expert authority on such devices to verify by the name of Austin Powers (of which curiously sounded vaguely familiar) and he outright disclaimed such a weapon and the tech behind it ever existed while he was trying to turn a golfcart around in some secret tunnel he was in.
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I didn't see that film but I figured it might resemble a cigar.
 
Lezunto said:
JFK, Dr. King and RFK were all killed by being shot in the head.

No mystery heart attack gun was needed.
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The international scene is a bit more prickly, carries more consequences for assassinations; lost allies, reprisals, wars, that kind of thing. Deniability is very important for farmboys, foreign equivalents.

KGB once killed a Bulgarian activist with a ricin pellet they shot into his ankle during a planned collision between people walking. Delivered via umbrella with a tiny barrel and pneumatic firing mechanism in it. Having some thug walk up to him and blow his brains out was doable, just wasn't the ending that was desired.
 
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cytg111 said:
What kind of fucked up shellfish produces this kind of poison? And does it have fangs?
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A few members of the cone shell family would be my first guess. No fang, it's more of a barbed calcium flechette. Symptoms can show up within a few minutes or a few days. No anti venom.


"The geography cone, or Conus geographus, is the deadliest, with more than 100 toxins in its six-inch body. It’s even colloquially known as the “cigarette snail,” because if you’re stung by one, you’ll only have enough time left to smoke a cigarette before you die.
 
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