CIA Admits It Destroyed Tapes Of Harsh Interrogation

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: fallout man
The crux of the problem is that the CIA knowingly withheld this information from the 9-11 Commission. I think that's a crime, and a completely inexcusable one given that this was a bipartisan government investigative body.

Any thoughts?

Further support for a transparent government. The ONLY things which require classification are codes/frequencies and troop/operative deployment/movement. Absolutely 100% of everything else should be open public record. Period.

I am curious, would we be the only nation in the world that permits public viewing of every single interrogation?

Would they be public? Wouldn't they just be shown to those investigating?

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
Give me the cold, hard truth and all of it's brutal consequences thank you.

Yes, I want to know exactly what I'm paying for with my taxes. It's a significant proportion of my pay-check, and I would rather know what this money I just gave away is paying for. Is this not my right as an American citizen?

I'm happy to pay for my local public school's water-bill. I'm not into paying CIA's water-torture expenses, since terrorists don't personally frighten me.

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: fallout man
That kind of extremely useful video is worth its weight in gold

But a video tape doesn't weigh very much...

It's the government--they're still using beta-max because they bought excess players in the 80's as part of a deal.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I am curious, would we be the only nation in the world that permits public viewing of every single interrogation?

Would they be public? Wouldn't they just be shown to those investigating?

If that were the case, it would be understandable.

Also, I feel the need to make a point that Congress should be given anything it wants when it investigates the government.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Pabster
Come on Harvey, can you imagine the repercussions if those tapes, or copies of them, were "leaked" to the Muslim world? (Or to CNN for that matter.) How many Americans would lose their lives? Look at the outrage over a fake story about a Koran being flushed down the toilet.

I'm not saying destroying them was right; It wasn't. But I understand why they did it, and it wasn't because they are criminals.

Yeah, I'm sure they destroyed them in order to save American lives, not because they contained illegal activities:roll:. You are so damn predictable.

Maybe they destroyed them for BOTH reasons... imagine that!

Pabster IS on to something, and he's absolutely correct about those tapes being kryptonite if they fell into the wrong hands (read: got leaked). An incident of that caliber might have the power to spark the entire Islamic world! Even though our enemies do much MUCH worse to their captives, that fact would be irrelevant to the masses, and the world would be in some deep sh*t.

Would you want that to happen Narmer? Would that make you all giddy inside? Harvey?

So you're saying it's OK to hide information from the American people if that means hiding it from our "enemies"? Can't they be both? So you want the government to lie to its own people in order to save them? Is that what you're saying?

No, I'm just not stupid enough to go through life expecting the C-I-FVCKING-A to tell Joe Sixpack the truth.

Don't be a damn fool!

I never said that what they might have done wasn't wrong on a moral level. I only said that they might have had more than one reason for doing so.

I'm also fairly certain that Joe Sixpack's opinion of their integrity is very low on their priority list.

I'm sure there are plenty of things the CIA has done that I would rather not know about. This is one of those things, if for no other reason than to keep the visuals off of Middle Eastern TV screens!

Only an idiot who thrives on seeing America suffer would think the moral warm fuzzies are worth those kinds of consequences.

 

[eilute]

I would have figure that the CIA just regularly destroyed documents. The bad press this administration gets seems to never end.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: cliftonite
Why arent/werent you concerned about Plame's outage? I guess American lives dont matter to you if they are the evil liburals.

:roll:

This isn't a thread about Valerie Flame.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: eilute
The bad press this administration gets seems to never end.

What can you expect when the press is constantly looking to embarrass GWB and Co.?

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Pabster
Come on Harvey, can you imagine the repercussions if those tapes, or copies of them, were "leaked" to the Muslim world? (Or to CNN for that matter.) How many Americans would lose their lives? Look at the outrage over a fake story about a Koran being flushed down the toilet.

I'm not saying destroying them was right; It wasn't. But I understand why they did it, and it wasn't because they are criminals.

Yeah, I'm sure they destroyed them in order to save American lives, not because they contained illegal activities:roll:. You are so damn predictable.

Maybe they destroyed them for BOTH reasons... imagine that!

Pabster IS on to something, and he's absolutely correct about those tapes being kryptonite if they fell into the wrong hands (read: got leaked). An incident of that caliber might have the power to spark the entire Islamic world! Even though our enemies do much MUCH worse to their captives, that fact would be irrelevant to the masses, and the world would be in some deep sh*t.

Would you want that to happen Narmer? Would that make you all giddy inside? Harvey?

So you're saying it's OK to hide information from the American people if that means hiding it from our "enemies"? Can't they be both? So you want the government to lie to its own people in order to save them? Is that what you're saying?

No, I'm just not stupid enough to go through life expecting the C-I-FVCKING-A to tell Joe Sixpack the truth.

Don't be a damn fool!

I never said that what they might have done wasn't wrong on a moral level. I only said that they might have had more than one reason for doing so.

I'm also fairly certain that Joe Sixpack's opinion of their integrity is very low on their priority list.

I'm sure there are plenty of things the CIA has done that I would rather not know about. This is one of those things, if for no other reason than to keep the visuals off of Middle Eastern TV screens!

Only an idiot who thrives on seeing America suffer would think the moral warm fuzzies are worth those kinds of consequences.

If I knew which department you worked for, I'd have you fired in a heartbeat. You're a jackass that doesn't belong on our payroll.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Pabster
Come on Harvey, can you imagine the repercussions if those tapes, or copies of them, were "leaked" to the Muslim world? (Or to CNN for that matter.) How many Americans would lose their lives? Look at the outrage over a fake story about a Koran being flushed down the toilet.

I'm not saying destroying them was right; It wasn't. But I understand why they did it, and it wasn't because they are criminals.

Yeah, I'm sure they destroyed them in order to save American lives, not because they contained illegal activities:roll:. You are so damn predictable.

Maybe they destroyed them for BOTH reasons... imagine that!

Pabster IS on to something, and he's absolutely correct about those tapes being kryptonite if they fell into the wrong hands (read: got leaked). An incident of that caliber might have the power to spark the entire Islamic world! Even though our enemies do much MUCH worse to their captives, that fact would be irrelevant to the masses, and the world would be in some deep sh*t.

Would you want that to happen Narmer? Would that make you all giddy inside? Harvey?

So you're saying it's OK to hide information from the American people if that means hiding it from our "enemies"? Can't they be both? So you want the government to lie to its own people in order to save them? Is that what you're saying?

No, I'm just not stupid enough to go through life expecting the C-I-FVCKING-A to tell Joe Sixpack the truth.

Don't be a damn fool!

I never said that what they might have done wasn't wrong on a moral level. I only said that they might have had more than one reason for doing so.

I'm also fairly certain that Joe Sixpack's opinion of their integrity is very low on their priority list.

I'm sure there are plenty of things the CIA has done that I would rather not know about. This is one of those things, if for no other reason than to keep the visuals off of Middle Eastern TV screens!

Only an idiot who thrives on seeing America suffer would think the moral warm fuzzies are worth those kinds of consequences.

If I knew which department you worked for, I'd have you fired in a heartbeat. You're a jackass that doesn't belong on our payroll.

OH NOES!!!?!?! Narmer is going to fire palehorse!!!!

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: JD50

OH NOES!!!?!?! Narmer is going to fire palehorse!!!!

I was in Washington in the middle of August. An idiot like Palehorse, in a position of power, has become drunk from it. There's no doubt in my mind that he doesn't take the his job seriously, considering the arrogance he has towards others and the lack of respect he has towards the constitution.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: eilute
The bad press this administration gets seems to never end.

What can you expect when the press is constantly looking to embarrass GWB and Co.?

Like you, GWB and Co. embarrass themselves without any help.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: cliftonite
Why arent/werent you concerned about Plame's outage? I guess American lives dont matter to you if they are the evil liburals.

:roll:

This isn't a thread about Valerie Flame.

There are many threads that arent about Bill Clinton but his name seems to be brought up quite a bit :roll:

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: eilute
The bad press this administration gets seems to never end.

What can you expect when the press is constantly looking to embarrass GWB and Co.?

Id say he does a great job without much help from the meeeeeeeeeeeddddddddiaaa.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Pabster
Come on Harvey, can you imagine the repercussions if those tapes, or copies of them, were "leaked" to the Muslim world? (Or to CNN for that matter.) How many Americans would lose their lives?

Didn't you get the memo? Almost every comment from every expert on intelligence and counter-terrorism who has spoken publically has stated unequivocally that torture doesn't produce reliable information. :roll:

Maybe so, but what Pabster was saying that could you imagine if one of them showed up on youtube? Remember how ape they went over some cartoons; imagine if they saw on the internet or tv their "jihadist heroes" being harshly interrogated.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Pabster
Come on Harvey, can you imagine the repercussions if those tapes, or copies of them, were "leaked" to the Muslim world? (Or to CNN for that matter.) How many Americans would lose their lives? Look at the outrage over a fake story about a Koran being flushed down the toilet.

I'm not saying destroying them was right; It wasn't. But I understand why they did it, and it wasn't because they are criminals.

Yeah, I'm sure they destroyed them in order to save American lives, not because they contained illegal activities:roll:. You are so damn predictable.

Maybe they destroyed them for BOTH reasons... imagine that!

Pabster IS on to something, and he's absolutely correct about those tapes being kryptonite if they fell into the wrong hands (read: got leaked). An incident of that caliber might have the power to spark the entire Islamic world! Even though our enemies do much MUCH worse to their captives, that fact would be irrelevant to the masses, and the world would be in some deep sh*t.

Would you want that to happen Narmer? Would that make you all giddy inside? Harvey?

So you're saying it's OK to hide information from the American people if that means hiding it from our "enemies"? Can't they be both? So you want the government to lie to its own people in order to save them? Is that what you're saying?

No, I'm just not stupid enough to go through life expecting the C-I-FVCKING-A to tell Joe Sixpack the truth.

Don't be a damn fool!

I never said that what they might have done wasn't wrong on a moral level. I only said that they might have had more than one reason for doing so.

I'm also fairly certain that Joe Sixpack's opinion of their integrity is very low on their priority list.

I'm sure there are plenty of things the CIA has done that I would rather not know about. This is one of those things, if for no other reason than to keep the visuals off of Middle Eastern TV screens!

Only an idiot who thrives on seeing America suffer would think the moral warm fuzzies are worth those kinds of consequences.

If I knew which department you worked for, I'd have you fired in a heartbeat. You're a jackass that doesn't belong on our payroll.

Hopefully he's in the department that is investigating homegrown terror cells and is going to round you up as a Osama BinLaden sympathizer as you demonstrate in this thread over here. One way ticket to Gitmo.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: JD50

OH NOES!!!?!?! Narmer is going to fire palehorse!!!!

I was in Washington in the middle of August. An idiot like Palehorse, in a position of power, has become drunk from it. There's no doubt in my mind that he doesn't take the his job seriously, considering the arrogance he has towards others and the lack of respect he has towards the constitution.

which part of my agreeing with you, to an extent - in that, IF this happened, I'd personally consider it morally wrong - do you not fvcking understand?!

I simply pointed out that Pabster's theory may ALSO be correct! Avoiding prosecution might have only been ONE of the concerns the CIA had if/when the videos were destroyed. They may ALSO have done so to prevent them from being used by fanatical elements to rial up Islamic hatred against the West! And for that reason alone, I would be glad that they did.

I ALSO made it clear that expecting the CIA to do anything other than that which is in the CIA's own best interests, is foolish.

bah, forget it. You're a total nutcase... YOU'RE FIRED! :roll:

 

[chucky2]

I'm still trying to figure out why an American agency would want to reveal the people interrogating two high value captives, the methods used, the visuals it'd bring when aired (torture doesn't sound like a screenshot of Lab puppies licking kittens), which would then absolutely without any doubt incite violence.

Muslims can't tolerate a F'ing cartoon or their own naming a F'ing teddy bear...are you BDS's so absolutely completely inept that you'd want this tape aired???

What possible good could come from airing this tape??? (and, once out of CIA hands, it would get leaked, make no doubt about it)

Chuck

P.S. And for those waterboarding naysayers, it sounds like that technique does work....huh, imagine that...

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Pabster
Come on Harvey, can you imagine the repercussions if those tapes, or copies of them, were "leaked" to the Muslim world? (Or to CNN for that matter.) How many Americans would lose their lives? Look at the outrage over a fake story about a Koran being flushed down the toilet.

I'm not saying destroying them was right; It wasn't. But I understand why they did it, and it wasn't because they are criminals.

Yeah, I'm sure they destroyed them in order to save American lives, not because they contained illegal activities:roll:. You are so damn predictable.

Maybe they destroyed them for BOTH reasons... imagine that!

Pabster IS on to something, and he's absolutely correct about those tapes being kryptonite if they fell into the wrong hands (read: got leaked). An incident of that caliber might have the power to spark the entire Islamic world! Even though our enemies do much MUCH worse to their captives, that fact would be irrelevant to the masses, and the world would be in some deep sh*t.

Would you want that to happen Narmer? Would that make you all giddy inside? Harvey?

So you're saying it's OK to hide information from the American people if that means hiding it from our "enemies"? Can't they be both? So you want the government to lie to its own people in order to save them? Is that what you're saying?

No, I'm just not stupid enough to go through life expecting the C-I-FVCKING-A to tell Joe Sixpack the truth.

Don't be a damn fool!

I never said that what they might have done wasn't wrong on a moral level. I only said that they might have had more than one reason for doing so.

I'm also fairly certain that Joe Sixpack's opinion of their integrity is very low on their priority list.

I'm sure there are plenty of things the CIA has done that I would rather not know about. This is one of those things, if for no other reason than to keep the visuals off of Middle Eastern TV screens!

Only an idiot who thrives on seeing America suffer would think the moral warm fuzzies are worth those kinds of consequences.

If I knew which department you worked for, I'd have you fired in a heartbeat. You're a jackass that doesn't belong on our payroll.

Hopefully he's in the department that is investigating homegrown terror cells and is going to round you up as a Osama BinLaden sympathizer as you demonstrate in this thread over here. One way ticket to Gitmo.

:laugh:

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: eilute
The bad press this administration gets seems to never end.

What can you expect when the press is constantly looking to embarrass GWB and Co.?

BWHAhahahahahahaha!!!!!!! :laugh:

Pabster, you are so-o-o-o desperate!! They've been caught up to the top of their lying skulls about WMD's, domestic spying on American citizens, torture, screaming threats of WW III with Iran over a nuclear program that doesn't exist and now, obstruction of justice and destruction of evidence of crimes by the CIA.

The Bushwhackos have committed the gravest of criminal offenses against the American people, our Constitution and the world. Do you really think you can get away with pimping the idea that it was all the fault of the press for reporting it? Do you have even the thinest whisp of any grasp of reality? :roll:

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: chucky2

What possible good could come from airing this tape??? (and, once out of CIA hands, it would get leaked, make no doubt about it)

Hey Chuckles...

They deleted and suppressed the existence of these tapes from a congressional investigative body (THEIR BOSS). The congressional investigative body (THEIR BOSS) has security clearance. Classified stuff get's "leaked" to congress all of the time--it's called "oversight."

The article isn't crying foul because the water-boarding tapes didn't get aired on prime-time. It's crying foul because these tapes were lawfully and rightfully subpoenaed by a congressional investigative body (THE BOSS) and were hidden/made to disappear.

Water-carriers like you love the whole idea of privileged intelligence, right? Well, the God-damn congressional investigative body into the biggest attack on the United States since the Pearl Harbor sounds to me like they ought to have a listen to privileged intelligence.

Instead, they got hoodwinked.

Does that sound right and proper to you? It doesn't to me.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: chucky2

What possible good could come from airing this tape??? (and, once out of CIA hands, it would get leaked, make no doubt about it)

Hey Chuckles...

They deleted and suppressed the existence of these tapes from a congressional investigative body (THEIR BOSS). The congressional investigative body (THEIR BOSS) has security clearance. Classified stuff get's "leaked" to congress all of the time--it's called "oversight."

The article isn't crying foul because the water-boarding tapes didn't get aired on prime-time. It's crying foul because these tapes were lawfully and rightfully subpoenaed by a congressional investigative body (THE BOSS) and were hidden/made to disappear.

Water-carriers like you love the whole idea of privileged intelligence, right? Well, the God-damn congressional investigative body into the biggest attack on the United States since the Pearl Harbor sounds to me like they ought to have a listen to privileged intelligence.

Instead, they got hoodwinked.

Does that sound right and proper to you? It doesn't to me.

That doesnt disprove the theory that any existing videos may have been deleted longggg before any subpoenas were issued.

Someone along the way probably had the sense to say "Delete that sh*t and make sure it NEVER sees the light of day!" And they might have done so for more than one reason!

There is no evidence indicating that the alleged videos were destroyed AFTER they were subpoenaed.

I'm just sayin'...

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Pabster
Come on Harvey, can you imagine the repercussions if those tapes, or copies of them, were "leaked" to the Muslim world? (Or to CNN for that matter.) How many Americans would lose their lives?

Didn't you get the memo? Almost every comment from every expert on intelligence and counter-terrorism who has spoken publically has stated unequivocally that torture doesn't produce reliable information. :roll:

Maybe so, but what Pabster was saying that could you imagine if one of them showed up on youtube? Remember how ape they went over some cartoons; imagine if they saw on the internet or tv their "jihadist heroes" being harshly interrogated.

They have seen many pictures from Abu Ghraib.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Harvey is it true that the song they play loudly as part of thier 'harsh interrogation' is yours?

I think we should have stuck with the Clinton policy of turning these people over to Egypt so to be tortured and killed. Would have made out lives a lot easier.

Why do you and your types always go back the Clinton? Last I checked he wasnt our president.

My point is that the same people jumping up and down and yelling about this said and did nothing when Clinton was doing WORSE in the late 90s.

Nearly every policy being used by Bush and Co started under Clinton.

Overall though I think we place to much blame for what happened under Bush and Clinton on Bush and Clinton. I doubt that either of them were 100% in the loop on exactly what was going on. I don't think someone walked up to Bill and said "we want to hand these guys over to Egypt so they can be tortured and executed, ok?"

As for Bush we all know he is an iditot, or is he a brilliant criminal mastermind who has fooled the whole country into believing his lies, I forget which one it is this week. (it does seem to change from thread to thread)

As for this tape I certainly understand why the CIA destroyed them and I am sure the Democrats will launch a probe and get to the bottom of this without throwing anymore political mud than needed :roll:

Finally, the whole point of the CIA is to do things that tend to be very ugly in nature. It doesn't exist so we can treat terrorists in a friendly manner, it exists to protect us from people who want to kill Americans in mass numbers. One of the BIGGEST mistakes made under Clinton was developing a policy which told the CIA that it couldn't work with 'bad' people anymore. Sounded like a great high minded idea "let's not work with drug runners and murderers anymore" but it cost us lives by cutting off information from people who work with and supply the very bad people we are trying to get.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: chucky2

What possible good could come from airing this tape??? (and, once out of CIA hands, it would get leaked, make no doubt about it)

Hey Chuckles...

They deleted the suppressed the existence of these tapes from a congressional investigative body (THEIR BOSS). The congressional investigative body (THEIR BOSS) has security clearance. Classified stuff get's "leaked" to congress all of the time--it's called "oversight."

The article isn't crying foul because the water-boarding tapes didn't get aired on prime-time. It's crying foul because these tapes were lawfully and rightfully subpoenaed by a congressional investigative body (THE BOSS) and were hidden/made to disappear.

Water-carriers like you love the whole idea of privileged intelligence, right? Well, the God-damn congressional investigative body into the biggest attack on the United States since the Pearl Harbor sounds to me like they ought to have a listen to privileged intelligence.

Instead, they got hoodwinked.

Does that sound right and proper to you? It doesn't to me.

From right at the end of the linked article:

"Representative Rush Holt of New Jersey, a Democratic member of the House Intelligence Committee, has been pushing legislation in Congress to have all detainee interrogations videotaped so officials can refer to the tapes multiple times to glean better information."

You're right, we should be able to trust tapes like these to the people who requested them. Absolutely no argument from me there. Even the Rep's idea quoted above should be implemented. Hell, they should all be digitized so their shareable and easily accessible.

There's only one problem with what you say, and that's "should".

Because reality indicates - as we've seen AdjwhatevertheFhisnameis and the recent NIE - airing intelligence data is not the best of things.

Interrogations, especially the more intense ones, is going to be even worse than Abu Gharib.

And since all things explosive/political leak, you can be assured that tapes like these would go public.

So, again, why would the CIA want to keep these around and circulate them? So some some pissy little State dept. carreer lawyer with his panties in a wad can leak them and then suffer none of the consequences? So some outraged pie in the sky Rep. assistant can leak them?

Because that's all it'd take and we'd once again have another Abu in the eyes of the Muslim world.....and that just ain't worth it...

Chuck