Church Praise and Worship service lappy

[JBDan]

I'm heading up the AV dept (job just inherited) in a section of my church and we've had an HP pavilion dv9000 for the last 6 years....it has served them "just OK" sans vista...... :thumbsdown:

The HP video card (nvidia geforce xxx?) bonked. I grabbed the HD's out and hooked them up to my desktop. phew! data is intact and there. The HP is 6 years old we need something up to date.

I'm fairly PC savvy and would like any input offered. The budget is $750 and we need a dvd drive and run MediaShout (slide show type presentation with videos/graphics/lyrics into 2 projectors) and various 480i videos. Audio as well into the house system from the laptop. Storage space is a must with all the images/videos we use so 500+ GB with an external HD would work I think?. I'll be shopping, but wanted some pro advice from all y'all.

Am I on the right track? What say you

 

[Zap]

If they had a 6 year old computer that was sufficient (other than non-operational) then probably anything will work. I would recommend something small and quiet, with Windows 7, dual core CPU, big HDD and 4GB RAM. That should last them for another half decade until something in it dies.

Since you guys were worried about the data, I would suggest using a portion of the budget for some kind of backup device, even if it is just an external HDD. Remember, just being on the external HDD is not a backup. Multiple copies of the data is a backup. Have the original on the internal HDD and a second/backup on the external. Do the backup periodically, but otherwise unhook that external drive and store it somewhere safe.

 

[JBDan]

If they had a 6 year old computer that was sufficient (other than non-operational) then probably anything will work. I would recommend something small and quiet, with Windows 7, dual core CPU, big HDD and 4GB RAM. That should last them for another half decade until something in it dies.

Since you guys were worried about the data, I would suggest using a portion of the budget for some kind of backup device, even if it is just an external HDD. Remember, just being on the external HDD is not a backup. Multiple copies of the data is a backup. Have the original on the internal HDD and a second/backup on the external. Do the backup periodically, but otherwise unhook that external drive and store it somewhere safe.

That's along the lines of what I was thinking. Thanks for the point on backing up I agree I think it's crucial. So do a weekly backup on the internal HDD as well as the external sounds like a great idea.

Do you think I should stay away from SSD on this?

I'm thinking a Dell, but will also keep my options open and surf the egg. I've got to move on this fairly quickly thx Zap

 

[Zap]

Do you think I should stay away from SSD on this?

I think it has to do with budget. Obviously performance was not an issue for them if they were still using a 6 year old system. $750 is probably not enough for a system with a backup solution to have an SSD.

 

[JBDan]

I think it has to do with budget. Obviously performance was not an issue for them if they were still using a 6 year old system. $750 is probably not enough for a system with a backup solution to have an SSD.

OK thanks Zap.

How about something like this

 

[Blain]

Asus or Lenovo along with an external HD for backup.
You may want to look at Windows 7 Pro with XP mode in case your older programs don't run well on 7.
To keep things simple, I'd use the 32-bit Windows 7.
But that's because I've had issues with some programs not installing with 7 64-bit.

 

[mnewsham]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834214330


That is my recommendation.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I wouldn't recommend any laptop with SB graphics for A/V work. Haven't you seen the comparison videos that AMD did comparing SB graphics to their APUs? The APUs blow the SB out of the water as far as video and multimedia go.

I would recommend something with a Radeon 4250, 4GB RAM, 500GB HD, AMD dual- or triple-core. Microcenter has something like that, an Acer I think, for like $400.

Is your connection to the projector VGA or HDMI? Might want to keep that in mind too, as generally laptops include one or the other, but not both. Newer ones are HDMI, but plenty of them are VGA too, with the ATI Radeon onboard graphics.

If you can wait a couple of months, the LLano APU-based laptops should be coming out, but since it appears that your existing laptop broke and needs immediate replacement, then go with my suggestion of something with a Radeon 4250 in it.

Edit: This is the one I'm thinking of.
http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0354213
It has both VGA and HDMI output, according to the description. It is more than powerful enough. For some reason, it only has a mono speaker (a disturbing trend among laptops), but it should have a stereo headphone jack. The HDMI jack should also carry audio.

Quad-core version for $100 more
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0357932

 

[mnewsham]

I wouldn't recommend any laptop with SB graphics for A/V work. Haven't you seen the comparison videos that AMD did comparing SB graphics to their APUs? The APUs blow the SB out of the water as far as video and multimedia go.

I would recommend something with a Radeon 4250, 4GB RAM, 500GB HD, AMD dual- or triple-core. Microcenter has something like that, an Acer I think, for like $400.

Is your connection to the projector VGA or HDMI? Might want to keep that in mind too, as generally laptops include one or the other, but not both. Newer ones are HDMI, but plenty of them are VGA too, with the ATI Radeon onboard graphics.

If you can wait a couple of months, the LLano APU-based laptops should be coming out, but since it appears that your existing laptop broke and needs immediate replacement, then go with my suggestion of something with a Radeon 4250 in it.

Edit: This is the one I'm thinking of.
http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0354213
It has both VGA and HDMI output, according to the description. It is more than powerful enough. For some reason, it only has a mono speaker (a disturbing trend among laptops), but it should have a stereo headphone jack. The HDMI jack should also carry audio.

Quad-core version for $100 more
http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0357932

The HD 4250 is NOT an AMD Fusion APU (Like the E-350, E-240) the integrated graphics with Sandybridge (Intel HD 3000) will destroy the HD 4250.

For example in Starcraft 2 the HD 4250 (on low settings) gets ~38 FPS vs. the Intel HD 3000 which gets ~75 FPS at the same settings. Another example is World of Warcraft (also at low) the HD 4250 gets 31 FPS, while the HD 3000 gets ~83 FPS.

HD 4250
Intel HD 3000

The E-350 which has the HD 6310 (AMD Fusion APU) actually performs worse then the Intel HD 3000, for example the Intel HD 3000 gets 35 FPS in Dirt 2 vs the HD 6310's 19 FPS. Another good example is COD MW2 with the HD 3000 getting 58 FPS vs. the 6310's 28 FPS.

For none gaming related comparisons the AMD HD 6310 in Cinebench R10 gets a score of 1944 while the Intel HD 3000 gets 4947. Another prime example is 3DMark 06 in which the HD 6310 gets 2082.3 vs. Intel's 3814.1 This clearly shows to me the Intel HD 3000 to be the superior GPU.

Intel HD 3000
HD 6310

For pure power the integrated sandybridge graphics trumps most anything currently out there that is integrated and should be just fine for multimedia presentations and video clip playback/editing. That being said i stick with my recommendation and suggest you go with this laptop.

 

[Zap]

How about something like this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834214330

Edit: This is the one I'm thinking of.
http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0354213
It has both VGA and HDMI output, according to the description. It is more than powerful enough. For some reason, it only has a mono speaker (a disturbing trend among laptops), but it should have a stereo headphone jack. The HDMI jack should also carry audio.

Quad-core version for $100 more
http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0357932

The only thing that bothers me with every single one of those notebooks is that they all come with 5400RPM HDDs. Maybe the HDD they come with can be tossed into an external USB bay for the backups and a 7200RPM HDD used in them?

 

[JBDan]

Thanks all for the input it is of great help!

mnew that link is one of the candidates I was looking at earlier today :thumbsup:

Thanks for the point about the projector connection....it is vga. I knew it was smart to post here for advice from you's guys

I've been wondering all along if integrated gfx would be enough....and it sounds and looks like it would be. The requirements listed on MediaShouts webpage are unclear for Win7, but they do have them for XP and Vista. Here is a Vostro laptop MediaShout recommends getting to use with their software. Also, in my own mind, I've been thinking integrated gfx = one less thing to fail. Probably not sound logic, but the gfx card is what bonked on the old laptop.

What we typically work with on this build is live wallpapers (.gif's I'm guessing?) with lyrics on top, 480 videos (mov, wma, vid), slideshow presentations, and mp3's. If we upgrade
our projectors next year to 720P will the HD3000 be enough?

Want to pick your brain Zap I know the difference between 7200rpm and 5400 rpm on my personal builds, but would there be much of a difference for the uses this build will see?
Negligible? Certainly I can configure a system with a 7200rpm'r that is within budget just wondering here.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It seems strange that mnewsham was bringing up gaming performance of the Intel HD3000 IGP, when this laptop isn't for games.

He also neglected to mention, that the Sandy Bridge IGPs have a hardware defect, that prevents them from properly displaying 23.973Hz video formats. The ATI IGPs have no such defect.

While the Radeon 4250 may be slower than the HD3000 for gaming, it is superior for video playback, and overall multimedia, in my opinion.

Plus, Intel's drivers have a long way to go to match ATI's, as far as compatibility goes.

Edit: And the laptop I mentioned, has both VGA and HDMI, according to the specs, so it can grow with your projector, working with VGA today, and moving to HDMI in the future, when you move to 720P or 1080P.

Edit: It looks like mnewsham's laptop also has both VGA and HDMI. That's good. It also has a eSATA/USB port (powered eSATA), which would be useful for attaching an external HD, without having to go through slow USB.

 

[mnewsham]

It seems strange that mnewsham was bringing up gaming performance of the Intel HD3000 IGP, when this laptop isn't for games.

He also neglected to mention, that the Sandy Bridge IGPs have a hardware defect, that prevents them from properly displaying 23.973Hz video formats. The ATI IGPs have no such defect.

While the Radeon 4250 may be slower than the HD3000 for gaming, it is superior for video playback, and overall multimedia, in my opinion.

Plus, Intel's drivers have a long way to go to match ATI's, as far as compatibility goes.

Edit: And the laptop I mentioned, has both VGA and HDMI, according to the specs, so it can grow with your projector, working with VGA today, and moving to HDMI in the future, when you move to 720P or 1080P.

Edit: It looks like mnewsham's laptop also has both VGA and HDMI. That's good. It also has a eSATA/USB port (powered eSATA), which would be useful for attaching an external HD, without having to go through slow USB.

I mentioned the games just to show the power of the GPU's in comparison BUT, we are talking about a church here, not a group of avid movie goers and film enthusiasts who need the 23.973Hz, The "defect" is hardly noticeable, I use an i5-2520M in a laptop being used as an HTPC (no discreet GPU) and i find it just fine for 1080p video, I personally can not tell the difference unless i REALLY look for it. From what OP is saying he wont even be doing that, and anyone at that church who will even know about 23.973Hz being proper, probably wont be able to see the difference on a large projector from a distance. I dont know about you but i have never gone to church expecting almost theater quality video presentations.

If the budget were in the 400-500 range I would be fine with what you suggest, but when the budget goes to 750...? Why not get something that will use less power, give off less heat, and be more powerful?




And about the 7,200RPM drives, they will make a noticeable improvement but again for this environment i just don't see it as the make or break point for a laptop. Is it a plus? Sure but honestly not the end of the world if you only have 5,400RPM.

 

[JBDan]

Thanks both of you virtual and mnew. I'm taking it all in. Have to order this build tomorrow. Meeting with the finance committee to get approved for the funds. Approval will be no issue I'll post the final budget in exact $ tomorrow. We don't have to spend it all if $ can be saved which is always a good thing.

Did y'all happen to see the link the the Vostro I linked in the previous post? It seems as though MediaSHout is recommending a dedicated gfx card, but I'm not sure their IT support dept is up to snuff on the latest greatest? Maybe I'm wrong here.

Again I thank each of you for all the encouraging advice. I really appreciate your time

 

[Zap]

I knew it was smart to post here for advice from you's guys

Just goes to show it isn't what you know, but who you know.

I've been wondering all along if integrated gfx would be enough....and it sounds and looks like it would be. The requirements listed on MediaShouts webpage are unclear for Win7, but they do have them for XP and Vista. Here is a Vostro laptop MediaShout recommends getting to use with their software.

That notebook has a GeForce 310M, which has 16 CUDA cores. What other cards have 16 CUDA cores? Let's see, the 8400 GS comes to mind, as does the 9400 GT and GeForce 210. Translation: Intel HD 3000 should be a lot better in outright performance. Heck, PhysX can't even run on 16 CUDA cores.

If we upgrade our projectors next year to 720P will the HD3000 be enough?

Absolutely. Most notebook screens are around that resolution at the minimum (except netbooks).

I know the difference between 7200rpm and 5400 rpm on my personal builds, but would there be much of a difference for the uses this build will see?

Well, I guess it will still be faster than whatever was in a 6 year old off-the-shelf system.

 

[JBDan]

Egads OK thanks Zap

 

[VirtualLarry]

And about the 7,200RPM drives, they will make a noticeable improvement but again for this environment i just don't see it as the make or break point for a laptop. Is it a plus? Sure but honestly not the end of the world if you only have 5,400RPM.

Well, I at least agree with him on that. 7200RPM is nice, but not a deal-killer, and I doubt that they are a requirement for using that media-playback software. Most modern 500GB 5400RPM HDs are faster than an older 250GB 7200RPM HD.

Edit: Btw, for the record, the reason I bought up the LLano APU, is that is a superior solution to either the Radeon 4250 or the Intel Sandy Bridge HD3000 IGP. However, it won't be available for another month or two. (?)

The E-350 based laptops and netbooks are also based on an APU (Bobcat/Ontario), but that is a much weaker APU. It's kind of like Atom + NV ION chipset. I would avoid them, I think that you probably need more CPU power than that.

Edit: Here's the video that causes me to think that the SB IGP is still inferior, like every other prior Intel IGP.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/llano-fusion-sandy-bridge-apu,12306.html
It clearly skips, when it comes to the FF benchmark/demo/whatever, which makes me wonder if it would do that with video too. Apparently, the TDP on those CPUs, is limited, both the CPU+IGP combined. So when you are under heavier CPU load, the IGP slows down. The AMD IGP isn't power-limited, as far as I know.

 

[JBDan]

Thanks Larry

 

[JBDan]

Ended up ordering this model thanks for all the help!

 

[Zap]

Looks like a winner! Don't forget a backup solution.

 

[JBDan]

Looks like a winner! Don't forget a backup solution.

Got a WD Elements ext HD and also will be backing up through the network at church to 2 different locations. Thanks for clarifying that one external HD was NOT a backup solution I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer

 

[Zap]

Thanks for clarifying that one external HD was NOT a backup solution

A clarification on the clarification. One external HD can be a backup solution if it is backing up something.

Why I say this is because I've known people to put their only copy of something important on an external drive. That's a HUGE mistake.

YES THIS IS A BACKUP
Have everything on the hard drive inside the computer. Periodically make a copy of it on the external hard drive.

NO THIS IS NOT A BACKUP
Have everything stored on the external hard drive.

Basically, no matter how you achieve it, a backup is an extra copy of the data stored separately from the computer.

Of course depending on how paranoid you are and how important the data is, you can go multiple levels with this.

 

[JBDan]

Thx for clarifying even further the clarification

The laptop is very nice and quite fast I'm pleased.

What I'm not pleased with, and knew this going in with all the laptops I've bought, is the TOSHIBA bloatware. Is any of this software integrated with Win7 programs? I want to get rid of it all I'll list it here tell me what you think.

Toshiba app place
Toshiba app installer
Toshiba assist
Toshiba book place
Toshiba bulletin board
Toshiba disk creator
Toshiba eco utility
Toshiba face recognition
Toshiba hardware setup
Toshiba HDD/SSD alert
Toshiba laptop setup
Toshiba media controller
Toshiba media controller plug-in
Toshiba online backup
Toshiba pc health monitor
Toshiba quality application
Toshiba recovery media creator
Toshiba reeltime
Toshiba service station
Toshiba sleep utility
Toshiba supervisor password
Toshiba value added package
Toshiba webcam application
Toshiba registration

OMGosh! lol. If it were my PC I'd just do a nice clean install of Win7. The chances of the church needing any of these is slim to none. Well more likely zero. What I'm wondering is if for instance I remove the "Toshiba Sleep Utility" is it integrated with Win7's ability to set a power scheme? Is any of this crap actually needed? I don't want to fubar anything as this laptop DID NOT come with a re-installation CD of Win7 although I do have one from another build. Please advise and thanks! Should I have posted this in "Computer Help"?

 

[Zap]

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with Toshiba bloatware. Someone else will have to help.

 

[JBDan]

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with Toshiba bloatware. Someone else will have to help.

I'll post this over on the computer help sub forum thx Zap