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Church denies Communion to autistic boy

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Originally posted by: DougK62
They should just bless some other sort of food that he can eat properly and give him that.
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Exactly. The communion wafer is just a symbol anyway. Maybe soak it in some water for the kid and have it set aside specifically for him. No reason to deny him communion. The way they have been doin it seems fine to me too. Nothin' like preaching tolerance and then being hypocritical like this.
 
My GF has a cousin who is serverley autistic and his parish wasn't going to let him partake in the comunion because he couldn't understand it in the abstract 😕

To really devout catholic families, this is more important than ANYTHING.
 
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
symbolism ftw! so why hold it like its real? you're not really consuming jesus's flesh...
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you shouldn't mock other's faith.
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i'm not mocking it. I'm just saying that taking communion is a symbolism in the catholic church from what I understand. So if its symbolic, there shouldnt really be such hard and fast rules for it. I wasnt being sarcastic or cynical.
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It is called Transubstantion, it means a change in substance.
 
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
symbolism ftw! so why hold it like its real? you're not really consuming jesus's flesh...
Click to expand...
you shouldn't mock other's faith.
Click to expand...

You should if you feel like it.
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you shouldn't do everything you "feel like" doing. then again, that is why the prisons are so full. 😕
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Well, when mocking religion becomes illegal I'll consider curbing my base desires.
 
During the last supper Jesus took some bread and gave it to his disciples. He said "Take this and eat of it. It is my body and will be given up for you."

This line is said while the priest is blessing the host. Anytime the host is in front of the congregation, they will kneel in respect for it.

The idea behind it is that anyone who eats the bread accepts Jesus. The Symbolism is that they are accepting Jesus' body into them because he died for their/our sins. It's like showing that the sacrifice that he made is accepted by all of those who believe in him. I was taught that it's not as if Jesus truly transformed it into himself, but rather, the representation of himself is the idea behind it.

By taking it and spitting it out... what is that supposed to symbolize? It could be saying that you reject acceptance of Jesus or something.

Communion is NOT required by the church and is NOT a magic key to heaven. I feel bad that the kid really wants communion, but the church is correct and is attempting to accomodate them... they are having none of it and still continue thinking the issue is over his handicap, not the procedures of the church.
 
Originally posted by: Injury
During the last supper Jesus took some bread and gave it to his disciples. He said "Take this and eat of it. It is my body and will be given up for you."

This line is said while the priest is blessing the host. Anytime the host is in front of the congregation, they will kneel in respect for it.

The idea behind it is that anyone who eats the bread accepts Jesus. The Symbolism is that they are accepting Jesus' body into them because he died for their/our sins. It's like showing that the sacrifice that he made is accepted by all of those who believe in him. I was taught that it's not as if Jesus truly transformed it into himself, but rather, the representation of himself is the idea behind it.

By taking it and spitting it out... what is that supposed to symbolize? It could be saying that you reject acceptance of Jesus or something.

Communion is NOT required by the church and is NOT a magic key to heaven. I feel bad that the kid really wants communion, but the church is correct and is attempting to accomodate them... they are having none of it and still continue thinking the issue is over his handicap, not the procedures of the church.
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This is where they go wrong. The issue is not about what him spitting it out symbolizes to the Church or anyone else.. it's about what it means to the boy. He does not intend to defame the Church or Christ. He is doing the best he can to accept Him. This is why I dislike the Catholic Church.. they are rigid and inflexible, and they don't empathize with anyone who doesn't strictly follow them.
 
Originally posted by: AdamMT1618
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
symbolism ftw! so why hold it like its real? you're not really consuming jesus's flesh...
Click to expand...
you shouldn't mock other's faith.
Click to expand...

i'm not mocking it. I'm just saying that taking communion is a symbolism in the catholic church from what I understand. So if its symbolic, there shouldnt really be such hard and fast rules for it. I wasnt being sarcastic or cynical.
Click to expand...


It is called Transubstantion, it means a change in substance.
Click to expand...

If you were to analyze one of those wafers in a lab both before and after it has been blessed, you would find NO change in substance.
 
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
If you were to analyze one of those wafers in a lab both before and after it has been blessed, you would find NO change in substance.
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If you were to analyze a majority of Catholic dogma, you would realize the same thing.. it's baseless. Even the idea of the Pope is based on misinterpreted scripture.
 
Originally posted by: joshsquall
Originally posted by: Injury
During the last supper Jesus took some bread and gave it to his disciples. He said "Take this and eat of it. It is my body and will be given up for you."

This line is said while the priest is blessing the host. Anytime the host is in front of the congregation, they will kneel in respect for it.

The idea behind it is that anyone who eats the bread accepts Jesus. The Symbolism is that they are accepting Jesus' body into them because he died for their/our sins. It's like showing that the sacrifice that he made is accepted by all of those who believe in him. I was taught that it's not as if Jesus truly transformed it into himself, but rather, the representation of himself is the idea behind it.

By taking it and spitting it out... what is that supposed to symbolize? It could be saying that you reject acceptance of Jesus or something.

Communion is NOT required by the church and is NOT a magic key to heaven. I feel bad that the kid really wants communion, but the church is correct and is attempting to accomodate them... they are having none of it and still continue thinking the issue is over his handicap, not the procedures of the church.
Click to expand...

This is where they go wrong. The issue is not about what him spitting it out symbolizes to the Church or anyone else.. it's about what it means to the boy. He does not intend to defame the Church or Christ. He is doing the best he can to accept Him. This is why I dislike the Catholic Church.. they are rigid and inflexible, and they don't empathize with anyone who doesn't strictly follow them.
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The Catholic church is based on historical research and biblical teachings. It's not based on making things up as they go along. If the church has determined that is a violation of the sacrament to spit it out, then they really can't retract their statement and say that the source they got that from was a bunch of crap, now can they?

It's not about what it means to the boy. If the boy or anyone else doesn't want to follow the church's guidelines, then they really don't have grounds to tell the church that their practices don't matter.
 
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: AdamMT1618
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
symbolism ftw! so why hold it like its real? you're not really consuming jesus's flesh...
Click to expand...
you shouldn't mock other's faith.
Click to expand...

i'm not mocking it. I'm just saying that taking communion is a symbolism in the catholic church from what I understand. So if its symbolic, there shouldnt really be such hard and fast rules for it. I wasnt being sarcastic or cynical.
Click to expand...


It is called Transubstantion, it means a change in substance.
Click to expand...

If you were to analyze one of those wafers in a lab both before and after it has been blessed, you would find NO change in substance.
Click to expand...

you can't use science to prove or disprove an assertion outside
the domain of science.

besides, if you did find a change, there'd be no point to faith.
 
This is why I'm grateful that people like this, who suffer from mental ailments, are 100% covered by Christ sacrifice and don't need the sacrament anyway. He could spit it out, drink it, urinate in it, whatever he wants. He doesn't possess the ability to commit sin, so Christ will not hold him accountable. In order to commit sin, you must have a knowledge of the wrong you are committing, and he doesn't have it.
 
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
This is why I'm grateful that people like this, who suffer from mental ailments, are 100% covered by Christ sacrifice and don't need the sacrament anyway. He could spit it out, drink it, urinate in it, whatever he wants. He doesn't possess the ability to commit sin, so Christ will not hold him accountable. In order to commit sin, you must have a knowledge of the wrong you are committing, and he doesn't have it.
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Yet in Texas mentally retarded people are executed, and protestants like you support it fully.
 
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
This is why I'm grateful that people like this, who suffer from mental ailments, are 100% covered by Christ sacrifice and don't need the sacrament anyway. He could spit it out, drink it, urinate in it, whatever he wants. He doesn't possess the ability to commit sin, so Christ will not hold him accountable. In order to commit sin, you must have a knowledge of the wrong you are committing, and he doesn't have it.
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reading the article FTW.

It says he's totally in tune with what is going on, but his disability causes him to no eat certain types of foods, based on texture or color.
 
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
This is why I'm grateful that people like this, who suffer from mental ailments, are 100% covered by Christ sacrifice and don't need the sacrament anyway. He could spit it out, drink it, urinate in it, whatever he wants. He doesn't possess the ability to commit sin, so Christ will not hold him accountable. In order to commit sin, you must have a knowledge of the wrong you are committing, and he doesn't have it.
Click to expand...

Yet in Texas mentally retarded people are executed, and protestants like you support it fully.
Click to expand...

Umm, I'm not protestant, and personally, I think it's crap that they do that in Texas.
 
Originally posted by: Injury
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
This is why I'm grateful that people like this, who suffer from mental ailments, are 100% covered by Christ sacrifice and don't need the sacrament anyway. He could spit it out, drink it, urinate in it, whatever he wants. He doesn't possess the ability to commit sin, so Christ will not hold him accountable. In order to commit sin, you must have a knowledge of the wrong you are committing, and he doesn't have it.
Click to expand...

reading the article FTW.

It says he's totally in tune with what is going on, but his disability causes him to no eat certain types of foods, based on texture or color.
Click to expand...

I did read the article, and I saw this.

Matthew has "moderately severe autism," his father said. "In spite of his disability, he is reading, doing math and making friends."
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That does not tell me how advanced he is. My 5 year old can do, and does, all those things, but he still does not understand the full concept of the sacrament. The concept of what the sacrament means and stands for is something many grown people with high school and college educations have difficulties with. Therefore, unless he understand the exact nature of what he's doing, he can't be held accountable for it.
 
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: Injury
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
This is why I'm grateful that people like this, who suffer from mental ailments, are 100% covered by Christ sacrifice and don't need the sacrament anyway. He could spit it out, drink it, urinate in it, whatever he wants. He doesn't possess the ability to commit sin, so Christ will not hold him accountable. In order to commit sin, you must have a knowledge of the wrong you are committing, and he doesn't have it.
Click to expand...

reading the article FTW.

It says he's totally in tune with what is going on, but his disability causes him to no eat certain types of foods, based on texture or color.
Click to expand...

I did read the article, and I saw this.

Matthew has "moderately severe autism," his father said. "In spite of his disability, he is reading, doing math and making friends."
Click to expand...

That does not tell me how advanced he is. My 5 year old can do, and does, all those things, but he still does not understand the full concept of the sacrament. The concept of what the sacrament means and stands for is something many grown people with high school and college educations have difficulties with. Therefore, unless he understand the exact nature of what he's doing, he can't be held accountable for it.
Click to expand...

The diocese is not questioning Matthew's preparation or understanding of Communion.

"I took my son to CCD (religious education) classes for two years to prepare him," said Moran, a stay-at-home father. "He deserves it."

Moran also said his son realizes that he is doing something special. When he was not allowed to go to Communion on Feb. 26, "it was terrible," said Matthew's mother. "Matt screamed and cried because he did not get his Communion."
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by: Injury
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: Injury
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
This is why I'm grateful that people like this, who suffer from mental ailments, are 100% covered by Christ sacrifice and don't need the sacrament anyway. He could spit it out, drink it, urinate in it, whatever he wants. He doesn't possess the ability to commit sin, so Christ will not hold him accountable. In order to commit sin, you must have a knowledge of the wrong you are committing, and he doesn't have it.
Click to expand...

reading the article FTW.

It says he's totally in tune with what is going on, but his disability causes him to no eat certain types of foods, based on texture or color.
Click to expand...

I did read the article, and I saw this.

Matthew has "moderately severe autism," his father said. "In spite of his disability, he is reading, doing math and making friends."
Click to expand...

That does not tell me how advanced he is. My 5 year old can do, and does, all those things, but he still does not understand the full concept of the sacrament. The concept of what the sacrament means and stands for is something many grown people with high school and college educations have difficulties with. Therefore, unless he understand the exact nature of what he's doing, he can't be held accountable for it.
Click to expand...

The diocese is not questioning Matthew's preparation or understanding of Communion.

"I took my son to CCD (religious education) classes for two years to prepare him," said Moran, a stay-at-home father. "He deserves it."

Moran also said his son realizes that he is doing something special. When he was not allowed to go to Communion on Feb. 26, "it was terrible," said Matthew's mother. "Matt screamed and cried because he did not get his Communion."
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

My son screams and cries because he can't go to the movies. What's your point?

I don't know or understand his full learning capabilities, nor does the article specifically state them. Regardless of what his understanding may or may not be anyway, his being denied communion in church is ridiculous. Though again, it doesn't matter.

The idea seems to be this, and correct me where I'm wrong here. God creates Matthew with physical/mental/whatever problems. As a result, Matthew has a difficult time partaking of communion, which was established by God. Since he will not take it, he will not be forgiven for any "sins" he may have committed and will therefore be consigned to hell.

If this is the type of God that Catholics believe in, I'm proud to say I'm not a Catholic. I find it hard to believe though that the Catholic church would feel this way, especial consider how much good does come from that church. For crying out loud, if the kids has a hard time swallowing or drinking small amount of any substance, give him more of it. I don't recall Christ telling his apostles at the Last Supper to only drink a tiny bit. As longs as there was enough for all, what difference does it make how much you drink? It's not like your sins will be "more forgiven" if you drink more, so what difference does it make?
 
Originally posted by: shimsham
i dont think god really gives a shat if the kid eats the host, or slobbers and then spits it out.
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i agree. i would think teh church wouldnt care either. That they would more then willing to do something to help the young man.

I think this is why i have problems with the church (any church not just this one).
 
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
My son screams and cries because he can't go to the movies. What's your point?

I don't know or understand his full learning capabilities, nor does the article specifically state them. Regardless of what his understanding may or may not be anyway, his being denied communion in church is ridiculous. Though again, it doesn't matter.

The idea seems to be this, and correct me where I'm wrong here. God creates Matthew with physical/mental/whatever problems. As a result, Matthew has a difficult time partaking of communion, which was established by God. Since he will not take it, he will not be forgiven for any "sins" he may have committed and will therefore be consigned to hell.

If this is the type of God that Catholics believe in, I'm proud to say I'm not a Catholic. I find it hard to believe though that the Catholic church would feel this way, especial consider how much good does come from that church. For crying out loud, if the kids has a hard time swallowing or drinking small amount of any substance, give him more of it. I don't recall Christ telling his apostles at the Last Supper to only drink a tiny bit. As longs as there was enough for all, what difference does it make how much you drink? It's not like your sins will be "more forgiven" if you drink more, so what difference does it make?
Click to expand...

The point is that whether he knows what is going on is NOT the questionable matter here, so your entire argument is moot point.

As I already said in the thread, communion is NOT required by the church and is NOT a key to heaven or anything... it's mostly a matter of being closer to Jesus/God. It doesn't mean that you are forgiven of your sins, it one to to accept the fact that Jesus died for your sins.

Once again, the issue is NOT that he has a hard time swollowing certain amounts of it or anything, it's that his disability makes him really picky about what he will eat. (to dumb it down... which is not the entire effect of autism). He's physically capable of consuming it, but not mentally capable.
 
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: shimsham
i dont think god really gives a shat if the kid eats the host, or slobbers and then spits it out.
Click to expand...

i agree. i would think teh church wouldnt care either. That they would more then willing to do something to help the young man.

I think this is why i have problems with the church (any church not just this one).
Click to expand...



gotta love the human ego.
 
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