Which is comforting considering they are likely to get pennies on the dollar in a firesale. This should have been allowed to happen months ago and without pouring tax payers dollars down the toilet.
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
- Mar 8, 2003
- 38,416
- 4
- 0
The same thing that happened to Daimler's $36B back in 1998. It hurt Daimler's shareholders much more than the US taxpayers. It seems like the gov and Cerberus would have learned from Daimler's mistake, guess not. But, after all... we have had a government that knows how to invest your money better than you for a long time now.
LTC8K6
Lifer
- Mar 10, 2004
- 28,520
- 1,575
- 126
I would love to see someone stand up to this, but it's not going to happen, imo
The admin will not allow anyone to interfere with these deals.
They now have a lot of power and control over any company that took any bailout funds, whether they wanted or needed them or not.
These folks were screwed the moment these bills were rushed through and trillions started getting thrown around.
frostedflakes
Diamond Member
- Mar 1, 2005
- 7,925
- 1
- 81
Yeah, I hope the government doesn't call their bluff. It's not like they're going to get a better deal in bankruptcy court, the hedge fund managers are just hoping the government will throw a bit more of that taxpayer money their way. Either that or they want bankruptcy just to collect on credit default swaps (maybe funded by taxpayer dollars by AIG, lol). What a fucked up situation.
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,836
- 2,620
- 136
CAD-your statements in this thread certainly show that you place political doctrine paramount, and have absolutely no knowledge of bankruptcy law. Don't you think creditors (even priority creditors) take pennies on the dollar in Chapter 11 bankrutpcies as a regular course-whether they want to or not? The sanctity of contracts means nothing when the bucks are there.
The fed money has priority over these hedge funds-they agreed to that when the fed made its loan. Otherwise the whole thing would have collapsed last fall.
This is a pretty common problem when dealing with any complicated Chapter 11 (and this is one of, if not the, biggest). Certain recalcitrant creditors try to improve their position by refusing to cooperate. Their bluff has been called, odds are the hedge funds will do far worse in the Chapter 11. Morons like this are the reason there is so much commercial lititgation in the US.
I'm glad Obama stuck to his guns on this-gives an indication of how he will do when dealing with Iran and North Korea.
My problem with Chrysler being allowed to go into bankruptcy is the fact that they are owned by a group of multi-millionaires under Cerberus Capital Management LP and all these asshats get out of paying the debts of the company they own. It is unbelievable that we have bankruptcy laws that let people get away with this kind of crap. Of course it's not unprecendented, Donald Trump was able to declare bankruptcy with one of his companies, and able to keep his billions.
Cad, nor any of the baboons here, realize what happens once a company goes BK. They don't understand senior/subordinated structures, liens, or anything else. It isn't surprising he comes forward with such a caveman statement.
Hacp
Lifer
- Jun 8, 2005
- 13,923
- 2
- 81
This should have happened a long time ago. For too long, we have wasted taxpayer money on bailouts. The UAW should be dissolved. The pensions must die. Shareholders deserve to be left hanging. The debtholder turn into stakeholders.
No more taxpayer money to the lazy union workers.
No more taxpayer money to the lazy union workers.
Just shut down Chrysler and kick everyone out on the street. Let the US Govt pay their unemployment.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Yep, which is like I said -fine by me. The holdouts are allowed to have their say and stand up to the arrogant and over reaching whitehouse. They don't have to bend over just because BHO says so and they didn't. So now they are taking their chances with BK.
As to the morons yapping - try reading for once. I don't care about the creditors perse but I do think they should be able to say no to the gov't when it tries to force it's way into these things. The mistake was allowing the gov't in last fall but that doesn't mean they get to dictate everything now - for everyone. Pull your heads out people - there is NO good outcome from all of this so just let it run it's course and keep the feds out of it - they've already f'd up the works and spend billions - let the damn things go BK already. sheesh.
LTC8K6
Lifer
- Mar 10, 2004
- 28,520
- 1,575
- 126
Many of the creditors who are going to get screwed are Michigan based...
http://www.freep.com/article/2...30/BUSINESS01/90430043
This is not a Chapter 11 bankruptcy at all. It is an admin "sweet-deals first, you can have what's left" bankruptcy.
http://www.detnews.com/article...-VEBA-s-Chrysler-stake
Calling it a normal Chapter 11 is a joke.
http://www.freep.com/article/2...30/BUSINESS01/90430043
This is not a Chapter 11 bankruptcy at all. It is an admin "sweet-deals first, you can have what's left" bankruptcy.
http://www.detnews.com/article...-VEBA-s-Chrysler-stake
Calling it a normal Chapter 11 is a joke.
my question is simple: why didnt they let this happen in the first place?
why all talk about getting chrysler back on its feet with our money? they were too big to fail right?
lets say they went into bankruptcy months ago, before propping them up with taxpayer money, wouldnt the outcome be the same? Massive layoffs, creditors get the shaft, etc. the only difference being the UAW wouldnt own 55% of Chrysler, the goverment wouldnt have a stake in the matter, and the taxpayers wouldnt be on the hook for billions. Heck, the merger with Fiat would have probably still happened.
it looks to me like an alternative would have been to let them go into bankruptcy and then soften the blow to the economy by extending unemployment benefits to those workers affected during that time. If Obama really doesnt want that kind of control over them, that would have been a way to directly support the people without the hassle of running a company.
why all talk about getting chrysler back on its feet with our money? they were too big to fail right?
lets say they went into bankruptcy months ago, before propping them up with taxpayer money, wouldnt the outcome be the same? Massive layoffs, creditors get the shaft, etc. the only difference being the UAW wouldnt own 55% of Chrysler, the goverment wouldnt have a stake in the matter, and the taxpayers wouldnt be on the hook for billions. Heck, the merger with Fiat would have probably still happened.
it looks to me like an alternative would have been to let them go into bankruptcy and then soften the blow to the economy by extending unemployment benefits to those workers affected during that time. If Obama really doesnt want that kind of control over them, that would have been a way to directly support the people without the hassle of running a company.
LTC8K6
Lifer
- Mar 10, 2004
- 28,520
- 1,575
- 126
Most of the creditors are being put further back in the line, though...so the deals with FIAT and the UAW and the government can go through without a fight from these creditors.
I have heard that suppliers are already saying they are not shipping Chrysler any parts if they get screwed in deference to these deals that they had no say in.
I have heard that suppliers are already saying they are not shipping Chrysler any parts if they get screwed in deference to these deals that they had no say in.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 51,953
- 44,819
- 136
The company wouldn't have been restructured, it would have ended up liquidated. There also would be a high probability that a number of important suppliers to would go down shortly thereafter which would cascade further down the chain.
Employees wiped out.
Shareholders wiped out.
Enormous unmet pension and health care commitments unfunded.
Car warranties rendered worthless.
Bondholders getting pennies on the dollar except for the CDS holding folks (who get to fuck Uncle Sam in the rear).
Sounds like a winner to me...
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