Chrysler to eliminate 13,000 jobs

[SSSnail]

Quit with all these "loyalty" and "I buy American cars" crap, understand what free enterprise is before making your comments. If you sell craps, no one will buy it, period. I don't care where that crap is manufactured, the consumers will decide on quality and value for the money and wisely chose what they will purchase.

I have some friends that gave the American companies much more loyalties than they deserved, i.e. kept buying American cars until they finally said screw them after getting screwed over and over with poor quality of the products (mind you, these are Asians that grew up in Wisconsin).

That "profits" argument is so silly, I won't even touch it.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Quit with all these "loyalty" and "I buy American cars" crap, understand what free enterprise is before making your comments. If you sell craps, no one will buy it, period. I don't care where that crap is manufactured, the consumers will decide on quality and value for the money and wisely chose what they will purchase.

I have some friends that gave the American companies much more loyalties than they deserved, i.e. kept buying American cars until they finally said screw them after getting screwed over and over with poor quality of the products (mind you, these are Asians that grew up in Wisconsin).

That "profits" argument is so silly, I won't even touch it.

So have you ever had a poorly built American car? The foreign cars I have had have never been any better when it comes to build quality.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: nullzero

The corvette is also an excellent car and beats out most of the worlds sports cars. Not to mention its the best price for performance out there.

What year did the Corvette get great currently? A used one might make some sense to consider buying...

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Quit with all these "loyalty" and "I buy American cars" crap, understand what free enterprise is before making your comments. If you sell craps, no one will buy it, period. I don't care where that crap is manufactured, the consumers will decide on quality and value for the money and wisely chose what they will purchase.

I have some friends that gave the American companies much more loyalties than they deserved, i.e. kept buying American cars until they finally said screw them after getting screwed over and over with poor quality of the products (mind you, these are Asians that grew up in Wisconsin).

That "profits" argument is so silly, I won't even touch it.

So have you ever had a poorly built American car? The foreign cars I have had have never been any better when it comes to build quality.

Fortunately, no. From friends's cars trouble, from the everynow and then accidental beater rentals, was enough for me to form my opinion. Even the Cross Fire, I looked at the car and exterior was poor sex, when I sat in the car, any admiration I had for the car vanished.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Quit with all these "loyalty" and "I buy American cars" crap, understand what free enterprise is before making your comments. If you sell craps, no one will buy it, period. I don't care where that crap is manufactured, the consumers will decide on quality and value for the money and wisely chose what they will purchase.

I have some friends that gave the American companies much more loyalties than they deserved, i.e. kept buying American cars until they finally said screw them after getting screwed over and over with poor quality of the products (mind you, these are Asians that grew up in Wisconsin).

That "profits" argument is so silly, I won't even touch it.

So have you ever had a poorly built American car? The foreign cars I have had have never been any better when it comes to build quality.

Fortunately, no. From friends's cars trouble, from the everynow and then accidental beater rentals, was enough for me to form my opinion.

Exactly my point :roll:

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Quit with all these "loyalty" and "I buy American cars" crap, understand what free enterprise is before making your comments. If you sell craps, no one will buy it, period. I don't care where that crap is manufactured, the consumers will decide on quality and value for the money and wisely chose what they will purchase.

I have some friends that gave the American companies much more loyalties than they deserved, i.e. kept buying American cars until they finally said screw them after getting screwed over and over with poor quality of the products (mind you, these are Asians that grew up in Wisconsin).

That "profits" argument is so silly, I won't even touch it.

So have you ever had a poorly built American car? The foreign cars I have had have never been any better when it comes to build quality.

Fortunately, no. From friends's cars trouble, from the everynow and then accidental beater rentals, was enough for me to form my opinion.

Exactly my point :roll:

Again, what part of witnessing my friend's daily gripe with his POS of cars would warrant me to go buy a POS just so I call it a POS? So buy driving in a rental, that's not enough for me to see what a POS of cars they are? Like I said, quit buying into blind royalty, but then again, seeing the posts around here that's not so uncommon. :roll: to you too.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Quit with all these "loyalty" and "I buy American cars" crap, understand what free enterprise is before making your comments. If you sell craps, no one will buy it, period. I don't care where that crap is manufactured, the consumers will decide on quality and value for the money and wisely chose what they will purchase.

I have some friends that gave the American companies much more loyalties than they deserved, i.e. kept buying American cars until they finally said screw them after getting screwed over and over with poor quality of the products (mind you, these are Asians that grew up in Wisconsin).

That "profits" argument is so silly, I won't even touch it.

So have you ever had a poorly built American car? The foreign cars I have had have never been any better when it comes to build quality.

Fortunately, no. From friends's cars trouble, from the everynow and then accidental beater rentals, was enough for me to form my opinion.

Exactly my point :roll:

Again, what part of witnessing my friend's daily gripe with his POS of cars would warrant me to go buy a POS just so I call it a POS? So buy driving in a rental, that's not enough for me to see what a POS of cars they are? Like I said, quit buying into blind royalty, but then again, seeing the posts around here that's not so uncommon. :roll: to you too.

I own a foreign car, putz. It's no better, as none of my previous foreign cars were, than the domestics I have owned. You are just as blind to foreign cars always being better, apparently.

 

[rudder]

I will never buy a crap ass Chrysler product again anyway. Toyota is deciding on a new plant in Tennessee or Missouri (I think).. they can go apply there.

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Again, what part of witnessing my friend's daily gripe with his POS of cars would warrant me to go buy a POS just so I call it a POS? So buy driving in a rental, that's not enough for me to see what a POS of cars they are? Like I said, quit buying into blind royalty, but then again, seeing the posts around here that's not so uncommon. :roll: to you too.

I own a foreign car, putz. It's no better, as none of my previous foreign cars were, than the domestics I have owned. You are just as blind to foreign cars always being better, apparently.

Tell ya what, you keep buying your American cars, I'll buy my "imports". Wait a minute, are we factoring in the "You get what you pay for" aspect? Because if that's the case, then I won't argue with you too much; still, for the same amount of money, you'd generally get a better car from foreign manufacturer than from "domestic" manufacturer.

Nevermind statistics, nevermind consumers feedback, nevermind anything, keep buying them. I'm not here trying to change your mind if that's what you're thinking, just pointing out the facts that most seem to agree with.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Paddington

i like being an outsider looking in, it gives a person a very different perspective, some may say clearer, and living in England but looking at the American car market what i can see is a massive want of smaller more efficient stylish cars. Now for some unknown reason the big 3 American car producers seem to have there fingers in their ears, blindly ignoring this and producing cards that get 12 to 18 miles to the gallon. If you produced a car in England or indeed in Europe that had such TERRIBLE fuel economy your company would go bankrupt within a month.

i cannot understand this obsession your car giants have. its all very puzzling. you'd think the fact that TOYOTA will become the worlds largest car manufacturer this year would make the US car giants think about there product lines but apparently not.

Well if the outsider, European opinion is so brilliant, then Chrysler should be booming right now, seeing as how it's been run by Germans for the past 10 years. Why didn't they bring over all their wonderful sub-compacts like the A-class and the Smart car to dominate the U.S. car market, which obviously has such a "want of smaller more efficient stylish cars"? :roll:

Thank you. Americans aren't interested in smart cars and other suicide machines.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Again, what part of witnessing my friend's daily gripe with his POS of cars would warrant me to go buy a POS just so I call it a POS? So buy driving in a rental, that's not enough for me to see what a POS of cars they are? Like I said, quit buying into blind royalty, but then again, seeing the posts around here that's not so uncommon. :roll: to you too.

I own a foreign car, putz. It's no better, as none of my previous foreign cars were, than the domestics I have owned. You are just as blind to foreign cars always being better, apparently.

Tell ya what, you keep buying your American cars, I'll buy my "imports". Wait a minute, are we factoring in the "You get what you pay for" aspect? Because if that's the case, then I won't argue with you too much; still, for the same amount of money, you'd generally get a better car from foreign manufacturer than from "domestic" manufacturer.

Nevermind statistics, nevermind consumers feedback, nevermind anything, keep buying them. I'm not here trying to change your mind if that's what you're thinking, just pointing out the facts that most seem to agree with.

Except there is no real case of "same amount of money," generally speaking. The truth is, there are a lot of domestics that score very highly on reliability. Their build quality tends to be lower, especially on things like materials used, but as was said, you get what you pay for. A Ford Focus is a reliable car. The best one, with incentives, is still under $15k. What's the cheapest Civic? A little under $15k. A Corolla is also quite expensive (yes, the lowest is quite cheap, but Toyota offers very little in that model). However, if I were buying brand new, I'd probably go foreign, but I wouldn't buy brand new. A used, but not very old Chevy is one hell of a deal.

 

[Pandaren]

The American car manufacturers simply don't offer the car I want. The gap has closed with respect to reliability, but I generally hate the interiors of American cars (components and fit/finish just feels cheap).

This generation is make or break for the big three. I wish them well, because more competition in the marketplace with keep the Japanese, Koreans, Germans, and anyone else on their toes. If the big three go under, I expect that the manufacturers who are left may become complacent.

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Again, what part of witnessing my friend's daily gripe with his POS of cars would warrant me to go buy a POS just so I call it a POS? So buy driving in a rental, that's not enough for me to see what a POS of cars they are? Like I said, quit buying into blind royalty, but then again, seeing the posts around here that's not so uncommon. :roll: to you too.

I own a foreign car, putz. It's no better, as none of my previous foreign cars were, than the domestics I have owned. You are just as blind to foreign cars always being better, apparently.

Tell ya what, you keep buying your American cars, I'll buy my "imports". Wait a minute, are we factoring in the "You get what you pay for" aspect? Because if that's the case, then I won't argue with you too much; still, for the same amount of money, you'd generally get a better car from foreign manufacturer than from "domestic" manufacturer.

Nevermind statistics, nevermind consumers feedback, nevermind anything, keep buying them. I'm not here trying to change your mind if that's what you're thinking, just pointing out the facts that most seem to agree with.

Except there is no real case of "same amount of money," generally speaking. The truth is, there are a lot of domestics that score very highly on reliability. Their build quality tends to be lower, especially on things like materials used, but as was said, you get what you pay for. A Ford Focus is a reliable car. The best one, with incentives, is still under $15k. What's the cheapest Civic? A little under $15k. A Corolla is also quite expensive (yes, the lowest is quite cheap, but Toyota offers very little in that model). However, if I were buying brand new, I'd probably go foreign, but I wouldn't buy brand new. A used, but not very old Chevy is one hell of a deal.

Foreign cars are not limited to Toyotas or Hondas.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Again, what part of witnessing my friend's daily gripe with his POS of cars would warrant me to go buy a POS just so I call it a POS? So buy driving in a rental, that's not enough for me to see what a POS of cars they are? Like I said, quit buying into blind royalty, but then again, seeing the posts around here that's not so uncommon. :roll: to you too.

I own a foreign car, putz. It's no better, as none of my previous foreign cars were, than the domestics I have owned. You are just as blind to foreign cars always being better, apparently.

Tell ya what, you keep buying your American cars, I'll buy my "imports". Wait a minute, are we factoring in the "You get what you pay for" aspect? Because if that's the case, then I won't argue with you too much; still, for the same amount of money, you'd generally get a better car from foreign manufacturer than from "domestic" manufacturer.

Nevermind statistics, nevermind consumers feedback, nevermind anything, keep buying them. I'm not here trying to change your mind if that's what you're thinking, just pointing out the facts that most seem to agree with.

Except there is no real case of "same amount of money," generally speaking. The truth is, there are a lot of domestics that score very highly on reliability. Their build quality tends to be lower, especially on things like materials used, but as was said, you get what you pay for. A Ford Focus is a reliable car. The best one, with incentives, is still under $15k. What's the cheapest Civic? A little under $15k. A Corolla is also quite expensive (yes, the lowest is quite cheap, but Toyota offers very little in that model). However, if I were buying brand new, I'd probably go foreign, but I wouldn't buy brand new. A used, but not very old Chevy is one hell of a deal.

Foreign cars are not limited to Toyotas or Hondas.

VW has some of the highest losses per vehicle of any manufacturer. Subaru keeps getting sold to different companies (although they do make good cars). Ford owns a third of Mazda. Nissan needed Renault to keep it from tanking. Mitsubishi has said if its sales don't pick up, it will stop selling in the United States. Shall I go on?

And in terms of reliability and/or quality surveys, German companies consistently rank last and, up until recently, they were joined by Nissan, who still isn't exactly scoring stellar marks.

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: Strk
VW has some of the highest losses per vehicle of any manufacturer. Subaru keeps getting sold to different companies (although they do make good cars). Ford owns a third of Mazda. Nissan needed Renault to keep it from tanking. Mitsubishi has said if its sales don't pick up, it will stop selling in the United States. Shall I go on?

And in terms of reliability and/or quality surveys, German companies consistently rank last and, up until recently, they were joined by Nissan, who still isn't exactly scoring stellar marks.

VW, Subaru, Mazda, Nissan make crappy cars? 😕

And yup, damn those BMWs and Mercedes for being so crappy with regards to quality.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: sandorski

People stop buying when they no longer like what is offered. When people stop buying, Sales drop, Profits drop, Prices drop, and after all that if people still continue stop buying the loop plays through again.

thanks for the economics 101 lesson.

so do you agree or disagree that large labor costs at the big 2.5 have at least something to do with the bean counters pinching pennies elsewhere?

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: nullzero

The corvette is also an excellent car and beats out most of the worlds sports cars. Not to mention its the best price for performance out there.

What year did the Corvette get great currently? A used one might make some sense to consider buying...

The Japenese dont have anything remotely close to the Corvette in performance for the price. The closest they have is the Honda s2000 and Nissan 350z both which have less features and less performance. I have yet to see a brand new Nissan 350z or Honda s2000 sell even close to its base MSRP price. The two models are found about $10k less then the Corvette on average. In performance 0-62 in 4.1 secs and top speed of 186mph and 400hp, the honda and nissan cant even compete even with $20k in after market upgrades.

http://autos.msn.com/research/compare/d...2=t0&dt=0&v=t103228&v=t102251&v=m12303

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: nullzero

The corvette is also an excellent car and beats out most of the worlds sports cars. Not to mention its the best price for performance out there.

What year did the Corvette get great currently? A used one might make some sense to consider buying...

i'd say C5 (the previous model) or C6 (the current model). the C5 started in 1996, iirc. though, used C6s don't make much sense as the depreciation on 'vettes is not what it is on other chevys. and GM has some nice financing incentives (an ATOTer bought one over the phone just yesterday, got 0% for 48 months).

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
How many Japanese/Koreans buy American cars? They are smart and support their own countries. We on the other hand have no loyality over here and buy their crap. The American people have caused this mess. American car companies have plenty of good cars and trucks.

How many American cars will fit on a Japanese/Korean road? American car companies have plenty of good cars and trucks? Then why do Americans seem to prefer Toyota?
Answer: Superior quality.
I'm not talking about a new car survey, but in 10 or 20 years, how is your American car holding together?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: Strk
VW has some of the highest losses per vehicle of any manufacturer. Subaru keeps getting sold to different companies (although they do make good cars). Ford owns a third of Mazda. Nissan needed Renault to keep it from tanking. Mitsubishi has said if its sales don't pick up, it will stop selling in the United States. Shall I go on?

And in terms of reliability and/or quality surveys, German companies consistently rank last and, up until recently, they were joined by Nissan, who still isn't exactly scoring stellar marks.

VW, Subaru, Mazda, Nissan make crappy cars? 😕

And yup, damn those BMWs and Mercedes for being so crappy with regards to quality.

see the bolded about subaru.

maybe not last, but VW is pretty goddamned awful

Originally posted by: marincounty
How many American cars will fit on a Japanese/Korean road? American car companies have plenty of good cars and trucks? Then why do Americans seem to prefer Toyota?
Answer: Superior quality.
I'm not talking about a new car survey, but in 10 or 20 years, how is your American car holding together?

i dunno about 10 years, but how many 20 year old japanese cars do you see? iirc, early to mid 80s japanese cars suffered from terrible rust problems. and the koreans didn't sell squat here 20 years ago, so who knows (and their 10 year old cars are awful).

our perception of 'japanese cars' seems largely based on early to mid 90s toyotas and hondas.




another thing that many people don't take into consideration is whether the is a selection bias in the way your typical honda or toyota is maintained vs. the way your typical ford or chevy is maintained.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Yup, Unions have nothing to do with it and the constant whining about Unions probably is part of the reason the Big 3 just keep getting closer to extinction. Quality, Design, Fuel Efficiency!! <<< has nothing to do with Unions, but everything to do with why Imports are taking over the Market.

All of the above (Quality,design etc.) needed to make way for union wage and benefit. Quality = matrials = cost. If your labor is signifinactly more expensive and less efficent than the competitors', you have to cut corners elsewhere.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
How many Japanese/Koreans buy American cars? They are smart and support their own countries. We on the other hand have no loyality over here and buy their crap. The American people have caused this mess. American car companies have plenty of good cars and trucks.

Another one of you... I suggest you look up where the Accord is made and then where the Fusion is made, because you're only making yourself look like a dumbass.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: sandorski

People stop buying when they no longer like what is offered. When people stop buying, Sales drop, Profits drop, Prices drop, and after all that if people still continue stop buying the loop plays through again.

thanks for the economics 101 lesson.

so do you agree or disagree that large labor costs at the big 2.5 have at least something to do with the bean counters pinching pennies elsewhere?

Now that Market share has dropped so far, now that Prices need to be slashed so much, now that Profit margins are paper thin, I suppose every penny counts. Still not the fault of Unions. Continue scapegoating though, incompetent Management won't Fire Itself.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Paddington

Working in the automotive industry in the US as I do, I can tell you that they (what's left of the big 3) are shifting factories to Mexico as fast as they can close them in the US

BS. The vast majority of Big 3 products sold in the U.S. are made in America or Canada. The plants that they have in Mexico (which the Japanese and Germans also do) mainly make cars for 3rd world markets. They might bring some Mexican made cars to the U.S. (like the Buick Rendezvous, which is not exactly a massive volume product), but they also export a lot of American made cars there.

(as are suppliers like my company - once about 15 plants in the US now down to 6 or so with about 10 in Mexico).

Your supplier is not the Big 3, so don't transfer what they are doing to them. Also, since you're in Kentucky, I'm guessiing your supplier mostly makes parts down in Mexico for the Toyota plant in Kentucky. That's great. Mexican made parts going into a Japanese car whose final assembly point is Kentucky, so Americans are fooled into thinking it's really a domestic product.

As for profits, I could care less. I would rather see people employeed vs shareholders getting profits.

It seems like you don't since you work for a supplier that's enthusiastically sending jobs to Mexico.

We have a tooling plant in Kentucky. HQ is located in Warren, MI so no go there. We have lost 40% of our revenue because of the fall of the big three.

As for Mexico, believe what you will. Ford and GM are building factories there while closing down US factories (Chrysler also). Cars such as the Ford Fusion, GM HHR and Chrysler PT cruiser are just the beginning. Ford has announced that it may build up to 15 factories hiring up to 150,000 people in Mexico over the next decade as part of their restructuring, all the while letting some 30,000 US workers go and closing multiple plants.

My company has nothing to do with Toyota in the US. We do however supply Toyota Canada with parts.

Oh, and what does my belief have with my company's shipping jobs to Mexico? I have absolutely no control except to try to automate what's left in the US to keep at least a few plants open. Otherwise, they're gone.

Oh, and I to previous posts, I have never bought a foreign car, I only stated that I would buy one made in the US vs a domestic company producing one offshore. I have bought only domestics made in the US (so far), and I've had little to no issues with both Ford and Chrysler. GM on the other hand gave me three bad cars including one that was finally "lemon lawed". I have pretty much given up on GM unless something changes.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: sandorski

People stop buying when they no longer like what is offered. When people stop buying, Sales drop, Profits drop, Prices drop, and after all that if people still continue stop buying the loop plays through again.

thanks for the economics 101 lesson.

so do you agree or disagree that large labor costs at the big 2.5 have at least something to do with the bean counters pinching pennies elsewhere?

Now that Market share has dropped so far, now that Prices need to be slashed so much, now that Profit margins are paper thin, I suppose every penny counts. Still not the fault of Unions. Continue scapegoating though, incompetent Management won't Fire Itself.

so you don't even really acknowledge it. i guess the unions had nothing to do with pushing those fat contracts onto management back in the 60s and 70s.

and i suppose alan mulally just walked right into ford one day and plopped himself into the CEO's seat?