Chronic instability on MSI K7T Pro2A -- attempt to contact tech support failed!

[Leo V]

UPDATE: Not only is their tech support a toll number, I was only redirected to an answering machine! How could you people deceive me and others into buying from these MSI scumbags? Anand, care to give them another endorsement? :| Even Abit had far better quality and support in my experience. But this is truly the dumps. I'm so sorry for being such a sucker.

Now that jpprod encountered the same crashing problems as me, "user error" can be safely ruled out. The K7T Pro2A is NOT stable under intense load with an ATA100 hard drive. It freezes up during normal, non-overclocked operation. Neither BIOS updates nor beta VIA 4-in-1 drivers helped the problem. Only by disabling hard drive DMA(100) did jpprod manage to restore stability, according to his results thus far. BY NO MEANS is this remotely acceptable, since its ATA100 support is the entire reason for getting the newer Pro2A over the "stable", cheaper Pro2 that Anand blessed. There are other problems, namely the computer requires several power cycles to boot up successfully; and the DVD-ROM drive doesn't work with DMA enabled.

I'll skip the tirade over how the Pro2A is actually 3-8% slower than the Pro2, which easily makes it the slowest KT133 board in existence. What a great improvement! It's tragic how a well-meant review by Anand could turn so gravely misleading (through none of Anand's fault, I admit).

I plan to call MSI tomorrow and demand a solution or money back. I'm deeply angry for the >8 hours that I've wasted, debugging a problem that's apparently a "feature" of VIA's new southbridge. Clearly VIA doesn't see fit to spend their precious time on quality control. All three AMD systems I've built over the past year exhibited headache-inducing problems, thanks to VIA's abysmal chipsets. Thank god I didn't need exotic hardware or software, I shudder to think of the agony... given how bad it gets on a vanilla Win98 machine with a Geforce and 3com nic.

I hate to say this, but I'm starting to think the Intel zealots on this board have a point. Chipzilla's products, whatever faults they may have, actually work. On the rare occasions when they don't, Intel replaces them instead of shoving "new beta 4-in-1 drivers ought to fix it" bullsh1t down their customers' throats while keeping a poker face.
[/rant]
LeoV

 

[Maverick]

I agree with you completely. The K7T Pro2A did not live up to my expectations. In fact, I'm on my second board since my first one fried itself after a BIOS update.

I've had more problems than ever with my MSI K7T Pro2A than I ever had on my old BX board. VIA definitely needs to work out its quality control issues.

I'm also using a Vanilla Win9X machine with a 3com nic and Geforce. Its ridiculous how many IRQ conflicts I had to figure out, not to mention all the settings tweaking I needed to do to achieve stability. My DVD drive still doesn't work with DMA enabled since it crashes a few minutes after starting a movie.

 

[HellRaven]

Ouch, sounds pretty bad, but I wouldn't count out that it is limited problem. Just because TWO people have documented problem doesn't mean everyone has the problem. If you were to convince me, VIA, or MSI that the problem was widespread - you will need more than 2 people to step foreward.



<< &quot;feature&quot; of VIA's new southbridge. >>


You make this assumption, that does not mean it is fact. I don't know exactly what is causing your problem and for all we know it is a problem with MSI's implementation. Like I said, two people with one specific motherboard does not equal a documented problem.




<< Clearly VIA doesn't see fit to spend their precious time on quality control. >>


Again, even assuming that this is a problem with the VIA southbridge and not MSI's implementation of it, that is a pretty large leap. How many people here including myself have a VIA chipset motherboard working with no problems? Certainly more than two.



<< All three AMD systems I've built over the past year exhibited headache-inducing problems, thanks to VIA's abysmal chipsets. >>


I assume from your over the last year statement that you must have built at least one or more of those three with a KX133. Yes, VIA did have some widespread problems with their KX133 chipset. It was a first generation chipset for them on the Athlon platform but they should have done better. If either of the other two was a KT133 all I can do is shrug and point to the many members of this forum that are problem free like myself. The quality of a motherboard has as much to do with the designer and chip maker (via) as does with the motherboard producer. If you can prove this happens with ALL motherboards using the newer VIA southbridge then we know it is a VIA problem. However, seeing as though this is the first I have heard of this problem and the fact that it has only been tested and confirmed on two MSI motherboards so far, it makes it impossible to make generalizations.



<< I hate to say this, but I'm starting to think that the Intel zealots on this board have a point. Chipzilla's products, whatever faults they may have, actually work. >>


The only point I agree with the Intel zealot's on, is that an Intel system may be slightly easier for a newbie to set up.



<< On the rare occasions when they don't, Intel replaces them instead of shoving &quot;new beta 4-in-1 drivers ought to fix it&quot; bullsh1t down their customers' throats while keeping a poker face. >>


Again based on the assumption that this is a VIA problem and not an MSI problem. If you can establish that this is a problem accross all VIA KT133 based motherboards with the newer VIA southbridge then you may have a point.

I would agree that Intel is usually pretty good about replacing major problems like with the i820 MTH trade in program.

I definately think you deserve a replacement or refund from MSI or who you bought it from based on your problems, I am on your side here when it comes to this. I just don't like generalizations based on limited evidence. We need more evidence.

 

[Leo V]

Shiva, I've had these same DVD-ROM + DMA mode problems too! Now the DVD-ROM is in my other machine.

There is also this problem: when you power on the system, it often doesn't boot up (no video signal). I end up power-cycling a couple times before it actually works. Ever encountered that one?

 

[zippy]

I've been running a Via Apollo Pro133A chipset (the MSI 6309) with a P3 550e@808@1.65v since April without one crash that can be related to anything other than Windows, bugs in the coding of a game's multiplayer portion, or poor coding of mplayer (which crashes for EVERYONE quite frequently- it does not discriminate ).

My friend's Abit KT7 is running smoothly as well and his only crashes are because of Windows and ATI's crappy drivers for the AIW.

By the way, that really sucks- but don't necessarily blame it on via. Maybe MSI screwed up? MSI did ship out engineering samples of the MSI-694D dual-p3 board on accident (and later fixed the situation for the most part).

I recommend that you call MSI, see if they know about this problem, see if they have any solutions/suggestions and if they don't ask for an MSI K7T Pro2 (NON-A) as a replacement.

Good luck.

 

[Leo V]

Thanks, I'll be sure to contact MSI first thing tomorrow... no 800 number, naughty-naughty!

 

[zippy]

No problem.

By the way, about the no 800 thing- I find that a lot of hardware companies don't have 800 numbers, it's quite distressing because probably about 40% of the time the consumer is calling because of problems with the hardware so why should that 40% have to pay to get RMA info or something? Oh well, it's the other 60% that calls because of consumer idiocy that screws us over.

 

[PCResources]

<< Clearly VIA doesn't see fit to spend their precious time on quality control >>



This is certainly NOT true, VIA's QC is one of the best in the business...

Now that i have read about all of your problems i have narrowed it down to two possible causes... As i have installed and tested very many systems with the K7T-Pro 2A i know that the problem is not something that occurs because of the specific motherboard, so i think that maybe you have a faulty board...

If you bought it from a local reseller, get another board and try it out, if the same problem occurs maybe a driver change would be in order, no beta drivers, the latest official drivers for the specific hardware on your motherboard will do nicely...

I hope this solves your problem, if it doesn't you are welcome to mail me again, i answered here because more people than you have this problem, and maybe they will also have some use of this information...

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[austonia]

leo - i have had similiar problems with my MSI Pro2a which i bought after reading anand's review! i've allready had my own thread about problems i have experience - whenver i adjust options in the bios, anything, the machine needs 1 to 8(!) or so power cycles to boot past the opening bios screen. meanwhile, i am left wondering if it's fried. since i bought this thing with alot of tweaking in mind, it's been very dissapointing. Took me a dozen power cycles after i flashed the bios, i thought i screwed it up somehow. the funny thing is, once you get it set, it seems to calm down and runs stable even through hours of quake 3. plus, it does not like my diamond mx300 which causes windows to freeze right past the logon box. i have heard drivers may correct this (hanvn't tried yet) but i never had any of these problems on the asus and abit bx boards i have owned in the past. i will not buy MSI again... and then other people seem to think it's great! i think there must be quality control issues here. i hope anand updates his review, these kinds of problems are not so uncommon from what i've been gathering. not to mention the ATA 100 is worthless.

 

[Leo V]

Patrick, as you probably realize I've exhausted all the latest official drivers before resorting to beta ones. I'll have to see what can be done tomorrow. I bought the MB new from John (who seems to be having some Pro2A problems of his own ).

 

[formulav8]

I heard it has to do with the 686b chipset. Look at Tom's Hardware.

 

[Leo V]

Yep, here is the link

 

[HellRaven]

Tom's motherboard was a MSI K7T Pro 2a as well. Everything here points to a problem specific to MSI. Perhaps it has to do with using the new southbridge with the older KT133 chipset as I have not seen any reports of your problems in any of the reviews of the newer KT133a motherboards which also uses the new southbridge.

It is pretty uncharacteristic for MSI to have a problem like this based on their reputation for reliability with their past chipsets.

 

[Pyramix]

Here's another person who's gonna through great pains with the K7TPro2-A. And all these comments about the motheboard make me feel worse I'm very disappointed.

Leo, let me know if you get through to MSI. I called them twice but they never responded. They have this answering machine where they ask you to leave a message. Disappointed with their customer service.

Pyramix

 

[McMadman]

Which crashing problems have you had? I have the same board, and was have been driven nuts by hardlocks, the occasional blue screen (usually a fatal exception 06) and reboots (while burning cds)

Were these the same problems you had?

 

[Technonut]

This should be an interesting thread. I purchased a Pro2A just to compare it against my KT7, and see what the hyped Pro2A frenzy was all about. I actually like to try boards &quot;hands on&quot; until I voice an opinion of them. After many failed multiplier adjustment attempts with 2 Loctite unlocked T-Birds that multiplier overclocked perfectly on my KT7, and many insert key resets, I found that there were indeed issues with the board.

As for VIA drivers, I only install the AGP driver in turbo mode in Win98SE/2000. Out of many builds, they have been the most stable systems I have built. I have no USB issues, and run a 4 port hub with a scanner, printer, and digital camera. I have a USB modem on the other port.

I have upgraded to the KT7A RAID, and it has been running perfectly for almost a week now with an 1100 undeclocked to 800 with the FSB at 145.(DDR rate of 290.39)

I have two Maxtor ATA 100's in RAID on the HighPoint controller with each on it's own port as master. I have put this board through the wringer with many intense apps, games, and benchmarks with no freezes or crashes. My Plextor burner and Toshiba 12X DVD has DMA enabled, and run fine. Everything works well.

I now have 6 background programs running, and am copying a 900MB file to a 15GB drive that I added to the VIA controller just to see if it will crash, and it is not locking up, and doing fine. I ran my previous KT7 for months with no problems either.

I guess what I am getting at is that out of 6 KT7's, many KA7's, MSI VIA P3 mobos, and now the KT7A RAID giving me no problems, I cannot see the VIA chipset to blame. I use my system for business use more than games, and have no mobo brand loyalty. If what I use accomplishes what I need with stability, I use it. I use TYAN Trinity KT's in most of my Socket A customer builds since most of my customers are not interested in overclocking, and it is a stable board with a 3 year warranty. I happen to enjoy tweaking and overclocking, and out of many different type mobos and processors (both Intel and AMD) I like the KT7 and T-Bird. If it lets me down, I will be the first to seek another solution.

Sorry you are having troubles Leo, I did not like the Pro2A either. I just cannot personally find a reason to condem the VIA chipset in general. I use a proven setup order with my systems that works very well. A large part of it is only installing the AGP driver, and no other 4 in 1's. I wish you luck, and hope you find a system that suits your needs.

 

[Leo V]

&quot;hardlocks, the occasional blue screen (usually a fatal exception 06) and reboots (while burning cds)&quot;

Ditto, my symptoms exactly. The hard lockups usually produced a black screen with a thin horizontal green line on top (as though this helps any! )

Thanks for the info Technonut. Could you explain the science behind the underclocking (1100->800) and FSB OC you've just mentioned? Do you think it's better to only install the AGP driver?

 

[LXi]

Technonut,

<<I use my system for business use more than games, and have no mobo brand loyalty.>>

No brand loyalty? You seem to like Abit boards more than any other.


Leo,

I think he meant changing the multiplier from 11x to 8x, and crank the FSB up to 145MHz to get 1161.

 

[Maverick]

I've had the 1-8 power cycles problem too. It happens most notably when my system crashes trying to play a DVD.

I've also had a problem where sometimes instead of shutting down...I get a blue screen error that says &quot;Windows protection error, you must restart your system.&quot;

My network card also works randomly too. Sometimes it won't work for hours and I leave it on. Then later I come to find it working perfectly.

 

[Leo V]

&quot;My network card also works randomly too.&quot;

You've just refreshed my memory. When I enable onboard sound, my 3com 10/100 nic fails.

 

[McMadman]

I've got that thin green line at times too when I lock (usually when running WMP,) So far after I installed the 2150 busmastering drivers (I don't really like the 3011 detecting ide devices as scsi when I'm trying to narrow down problems) They have seemed to stabilize me, it took 2 weeks before I tried them, but this might have finally done the trick. Who would have thought that the pro2A would be causing so many problems!

 

[Rendus]

Heh. I've seen the problems described here on the Intel 815 chipset when it was initially released. Issues with Seagate hard drives, memory timing issues (forget what exactly), USB compatibility problems, etc.. Eventually they get resolved with BIOS revisions that work around bugs in the chipset (such as one by Dell that power cycled the machine during POST to get around the Seagate bug). Interesting things happen with new chipsets, and given a few months, they'll be ironed out.

 

[LXi]

MSI with poor QC... hum ok, thats a new one.

 

[Technonut]

LXi, As I said, out of the many types of mobos I have used, I prefer the ABIT. I purchased and have used EPOX, FIC, MSI, ASUS, TYAN, etc...and I always end up going back to ABIT for stability, tweaking and overclocking. If something that impresses me better comes along, I will use it. I base my opinions on actual &quot;hands on&quot; use and testing.

Leo, I have to eat dinner now, but I will get back to you on the setup order that I use, and some links to show it is valid.

 

[tjdavis1138]

I get on here a week ago and you couldn't find a better board than the MSI. After I purchase it they go to sh!t.

Seriously though, after my LiveBios fiasco and not being able to get my Epson 1240u scanner working through usb, I might be selling my board when I get it back. I also had problems with dvd playback being choppy. Tried a few things, but didn't have much time to look into it. I had the 4.28 via driver's installed as well.

Abit is looking better all the time. I've built probably two dozen systems (all intel based) with various Abit boards and never had a problem. I loved my BH6.