Christopher Hitchens has died.

[zsdersw]

From a creator to his creature, that is the most fitting question to ask.

Even assuming your God is our creator, that's not at all true. We humans don't ask our children that question.

 

[Atreus21]

You've been trained to believe that question. You've been trained to believe that in order to be saved, you have to accept Jesus. What I'm saying is that logically, that is not necessarily true. Wait a second... why am I attempting to argue logic with you? LOLOLOLOL.

We've all been trained in some way or another. No one is utterly independent of outside influences, and if they were they'd be very unhealthy human beings.

It's not necessarily about accepting Jesus either. It's about the simple act of submission. God says to us, "I'm God, and you're not." We can submit to that or rebel.

 

[xj0hnx]

Even assuming your God is our creator, that's not at all true. We humans don't ask our children that question.

Exactly. I've never understood this irrational belief that even if there is a god, that his "subjects" must worship him, or suffer eternity in a burning pit of hell. Seriously, what kind of fucked up ego manic is this god fellow?

 

[fskimospy]

Exactly. I've never understood this irrational belief that even if there is a god, that his "subjects" must worship him, or suffer eternity in a burning pit of hell. Seriously, what kind of fucked up ego manic is this god fellow?

I liked Hitchens' comparison of the all knowing all seeing god to being in a perpetual North Korea that you can never escape from. It really does expose just how creepy such an idea of god is.

 

[Atreus21]

Even assuming your God is our creator, that's not at all true. We humans don't ask our children that question.

For purposes of this conversation, I'm not assuming anything about "my" God. Just simply that there is one.

We don't ask our children to respect us? We don't ask them to "respect their elders"? Should we regard rebellious children, who rebel for its own sake, as righteous? Especially in consideration of how much we have given them which has gone unappreciated?

We are divorced of God because of the Fall, where humanity, by some device, chose to be its own god; we chose free will. In Christianity and Judaism this is manifested by the story of Adam and Eve. In death, we are offered the chance to return and submit.

 

[Atreus21]

I liked Hitchens' comparison of the all knowing all seeing god to being in a perpetual North Korea that you can never escape from. It really does expose just how creepy such an idea of god is.

If God is indeed perfect, I haven't the slightest issue with submission to him.

Would you rebel against perfect authority simply because it is absolute authority?

 

[Albatross]

Now you going to tell me some loud mouth preacher is dead.Such a loss for humanity in both cases.

 

[xj0hnx]

For purposes of this conversation, I'm not assuming anything about "my" God. Just simply that there is one.

We don't ask our children to respect us? We don't ask them to "respect their elders"? Should we regard rebellious children, who rebel for its own sake, as righteous? Especially in consideration of how much we have given them which has gone unappreciated?

We are divorced of God because of the Fall, where humanity, by some device, chose to be its own god; we chose free will. In Christianity and Judaism this is manifested by the story of Adam and Eve. In death, we are offered the chance to return and submit.

We definitely don't ask them to worship us, and fore sake all over humans.

If he made us free only the sake of seeing if we would submit to him, if not burn in hell, then we aren't really free are we? That's pretty ridiculous.

 

[fskimospy]

If God is indeed perfect, I haven't the slightest issue with submission to him.

Would you rebel against perfect authority simply because it is absolute authority?

I would probably still have a problem with someone watching me taking a shit, no matter how perfect they were. Furthermore, I find a number of actions god has taken in the bible to be far from my definition of perfect, so I don't think he fits that definition for me.

 

[Atreus21]

We definitely don't ask them to worship us, and fore sake all over humans.

If he made us free only the sake of seeing if we would submit to him, if not burn in hell, then we aren't really free are we? That's pretty ridiculous.

We don't ask them to worship us because we are neither gods nor perfect.

We were not made free. We rebelled and were given the freedom to be master over our earthly lives. I suspect this will eventually devolve into a debate about predestination, which I confess I cannot resolve.

 

[Atreus21]

I would probably still have a problem with someone watching me taking a shit, no matter how perfect they were.

I don't know why but I had to laugh at that.

Furthermore, I find a number of actions god has taken in the bible to be far from my definition of perfect, so I don't think he fits that definition for me.

Well, I have my issues with the bible too. I also have issues with people who I'd regard as damn-near guilty of idolatry considering their near-worship of the bible, and not to the being it addresses. I actually challenged an evangelist during a stump speech on LSU's campus once on that topic.

 

[yllus]

I always worry when people like Mr. Hitchens pass away that the world won't be resupplied with as great a writer as the one just lost. Here's to hoping that's not the case.

 

[Fern]

RIP.

I liked him, found him very interesting.

Fern

 

[cwjerome]

Although not really a "troublemaker" I couldn't help but think of this quote: "A society that gets rid of all its troublemakers goes downhill."

Free thinkers are always a good thing, even if you find some of their thoughts nuts.

 

[shira]

I didn't always agree with what Hitchens had to say, but I agreed with him a lot. And regardless of whether I agreed or disagreed, I always enjoyed his erudition, his brilliant wit, and his insistence on living his life on his own terms. No one was going to force him to give up his excessive smoking and and the excessive drinking of his favorite whiskey, which was (as he described it) "Johnny Walker Black - the breakfast of champions."

It's been widely reported in the press today that in his memoir "Hitch-22" Hitchens wrote that - when informed by his physician that he had stage 4 esophageal cancer (which has a less than 3% five-year survival rate) - he did what protagonist John Self said he did in Martin Amis's 1984 novel "Money:"

I lit another cigarette. Unless I say otherwise, I am always lighting another cigarette.

Hitchens wasn't about to allow the fear of oblivion to coerce him into changing his ways or warping his reason. He wasn't going to allow infantile promises of a magical afterlife to poison his judgement. And I'm 99.9% sure that Hitchens hasn't discovered anything at all about heaven or hell or the nature of existence since be breathed his last breath.

 

[hal2kilo]

Rest in peace. Diamond in the rough. Have missed you in the TV scape. Had a feeling you would lose your struggle.

As articulate as you were, I never understood your support for GW and the Iran invasion by the U.S. It seemed to be a leap of faith. How ironic.

 

[zsdersw]

We don't ask our children to respect us? We don't ask them to "respect their elders"? Should we regard rebellious children, who rebel for its own sake, as righteous? Especially in consideration of how much we have given them which has gone unappreciated?

Those are entirely different questions than "Do you choose me or do you choose yourself?" .. the implied connotation of which is: "do you believe in me or do you believe in yourself?"

We tell children to believe in themselves all the time; that they can achieve anything they set their mind to; that they can work toward the life of their dreams.