Christopher Columbus.

[T4NNER]

Controversies galore on this guy. Some say he wasn't the first, some say he was. Many claim he was insane, and many claim he was a thief.

It's Columbus day today, so let's discuss who we are celebrating. A thief? An idiot? Misunderstood?

What do you think?

 

[KarsinTheHutt]

I think of this day as a salute to those intrepid explorers - those who made it... and those who were never seen again!

 

Norse relics have been found in Newfoundland that are similar to ones made in Scandinavia circa 1000AD (pretty common fact now). No, Chris wasn't the first European to set foot on America.

I'm with Karsin, though... It's the people who have the initiative to do something crazy like sail into uncharted territory that get their names in the books.

 

[bUnMaNGo]

heh here at school (UC Santa Cruz) I saw a flyer for an anti-Columbus Day celebration somewhere on campus... sponsored by the Native American students group or something like that

 

[Triumph]

well, it's obvious he wasn't the first one here. duh. as for his status as an explorer, he doesn't get my respect.
1. he didn't even hit mainland america. he landed in the west indies (i think)
2. he didn't know he found something new. he thought he was in india.
3. people were already here. he didn't "discover" anything.

 

[RU482]

He's my namesake

I give him a "hell yeah!"

 

[StageLeft]

Columbus was an animal to the natives. I seem to remember him taking part in massacres and what not...

 

[ltk007]

Leif Erikson landed on NewFoundland a long time before Columbus was even born.

 

[vi edit]

In South Dakota Columbus day is not Columbus Day. It is celebrated as Native American Indian Day.

 

[Triumph]

good. it's the least we can do to honor the thousands of native americans we slaughtered to build this country.

notice i said honored. i didn't say anything about compensating them.

 

[lotust]

I just would like to say this

"Come out come out
No use in hiding
Come now come now
Can you not see?
There's no place here
What were you expecting
Not room for both
Just room for me
So you will lay your arms down
Yes I will call this home

Away away
You have been banished
Your land is gone
And given me
And here I will spread my wings
Yes I will call this home
What's this you say
You feel a right to remain
Then stay and I will bury you
What's that you say
Your father's spirit still lives in this place
I will silence you

Here's the hitch
Your horse is leaving
Don't miss your boat
It's leaving now
And as you go I will spread my wings
Yes I will call this home
I have no time to justify to you
Fool you're blind, move aside for me
All I can say to you my new neighbor
Is you must move on or I will bury you

Now as I rest my feet by this fire
Those hands once warmed here
I have retired them
I can breathe my own air
I can sleep more soundly
Upon these poor souls
I'll build heaven and call it home
'Cause you're all dead now
I live with my justice
I live with my greedy need
I live with no mercy
I live with my frenzied feeding
I live with my hatred
I live with my jealousy
I live with the notion
That I don't need anyone but me
Don't drink the water
There's blood in the water"


this is what the white man did to the indians. (I am white)

 

[JellyBaby]

<< . it's the least we can do to honor the thousands of native americans we slaughtered to build this country. >>

Point of fact, I never slaughtered any of them. In fact, as yet, I haven't slaughtered any of my fellow earth-dwellers in an effort to further my own interests.

I'm so fed up with paying for the sins of past generations. Get over it. Life moves on, for the descendents of those persecuted and for those who just happened to be born in a country that profited from their anscestor's indisgressions.

 

[(Chanse)]

people get fed up with paying for the sins of past generations, but it seems ok to profit from it. If I just happen to wander on by your house, and you're sleeping, and I just happen to wander in and help myself to whatever I want. I guess that's ok.

 

[Total Refected Power]

Gives Italians a holiday to celebrate

 

[JellyBaby]

<< If I just happen to wander on by your house, and you're sleeping, and I just happen to wander in and help myself to whatever I want. I guess that's ok >>

(Chanse), you describe a situation where both predator and victim live in the same time, in the same place. I didn't invade America. I didn't bring the White Man's disease to North America. I didn't slaughter Indians. These events happened centuries ago before I was even born. Your example does not even come close to a realistic appraisal of what we're talking about here.

 

[lotust]

easy now fellas . BE nice now and maybe I will send you both one anamial cracker for FREE. yes FREE.

 

[avatar08]

Seems like a great day to celebrate a rapist and pillager of nations.

Just my .2 but then again I am biased being Native American





avatar08

 

[lotust]

avatar08, Yep I know. why dont they teach you this when you were in school

 

[avatar08]

I've finally figured out that whatever I was taught in school must be taken with a grain of salt and look up the info myself and sort out the bullshit. But then again History will always be written by the victors.




avatar08

 

[EmperorNero]

&quot;Columbus was an animal to the natives. I seem to remember him taking part in massacres and what not...&quot;

&quot;Leif Erikson landed on NewFoundland a long time before Columbus was even born.&quot;

those two quotes hit the mark accurately. being the victim of poor elementary school education, I was naive enough to think columbus was a hero: he's just an overhyped jackass who happened to keep better records and diaries than erikson so he gets all of the credits. since he wasn't able to find gold, the next best thing was free slave labor: indians. I still don't see why we have columbus day - although I wont' complain if we had school off (I'm kidding of course)

jellybelly, I think we should have a say-so in paying the indians (if we don't already) but for compassion and humanity's sake, it's only fair that they should get paid: despite the fact that none of us were there at the time, that doesn't mean we are exempt from rectifying past transgressions.

 

[JellyBaby]

<< why dont they teach you this when you were in school >>

Actually, at least in my case, they did. Moreso in college than in HS and with a more anti-religious flavor (e.g. &quot;white christians conquered native american indians in the name of the lord&quot. If this isn't being mentioned in schools today it should be. This planet's history is full of violence, hate, war, disease and host of other ills....but a lot of good came from the bad. Example: you and I are here now in the greatest country on earth! I for one will not mire myself in pessimism just because somebody from century?s past was a major fvckup. We learn history so as not to repeat it, not get stuck in it.

 

[vi edit]

I'll just say these couple things, not in any attempt to start a flame war.

1) I don't think it was so much in the name of the &quot;lord&quot; as it was in the name of the &quot;land&quot;.

2) Rounding up an entire culture and sticking them in a &quot;reservation&quot; the size of LA is by no means an ammend. It's what farmers do to animals. It is no way for a human being to be treated.
And to make matters worse, the land that indians were &quot;given&quot;, and I use that wisely, was usually stripped clean by white men, or not found suitable for habitation or crop domestication in the first place.

 

[Pastfinder]

A lucky stiff is my personal opinion. He went out on a limb and frankly, was not entirely sure that his theory was right at all. But, here we are, and today is his day, So yall raise your glasses up high fro Columbus

 

[lotust]

JellyBaby
I meant in kindergarden. He he he. I guess that would be wrong. This is why I am scared to have any kids. What a dad I would be. good lord

 

[Raspewtin]

was not entirely sure that his theory was right at all.

If his theory was right, we wouldn't be here, and he'd have made it to India.