Christmas price drops...?

[Xesh]

Hey all, how's computing these days? I haven't been in the market for new parts in awhile, and although my box has done everything I've asked it to, I see HL2 out there and salivate... I want it to be truly purdy when I get it. As a college student, I'm on a budget, so I'm thinking after xmas is the right time, but I can't remember just how much the prices go down then (it was in August 2001 that I built this one). I'm running a T-Bird 1.2 on an Epox 8kha+ with: Santa Cruz audio, GF2 Pro video, 512MB PC2100 RAM, and a CPU fan loud as a jet engine (not to mention the heat the T-Bird puts out!). What can I expect after Christmas for good price/performance balance for upgrades?

Thanks for any predictions; you all were amazingly helpful when I put this one together.


Joe

 

[SrGuapo]

How much are you willing to spend? Depending on how cheap you are wanting the system, you could get a decent Athlon XP system for under $700 pretty easily. If you want an even higher end system, I would recommend an A64 system. The A64s start out less than $200 already.

Personally, I am going to go for an nForce4, A64 3500+ system and the current price for all the parts is around $1300. I am hoping that I can get it for under $1200 after christmas...

 

[Duvie]

Problem is for naything other then an athlon xp system you will likely need new ram, new power supply, definitely new vid card....sound is fine....

I would think that if HL2 is the goal more vid power and less cpu power would be needed.

Are you partial to Nvidia for gaming cards???

 

[Xesh]

I'm not parital at all to nVidia, except that the GF2 I have now has performed so well. But I've read that the newest ATI products have higher quality and framerate... as long as it looks nice and works, I've no bias. Of course, $500-600 is too much for me.

 

[gobucks]

For video, if you are willing to part with $375 or so, the 6800GT is a fantastic card. It's literally twice as fast as a 9800XT, last year's high end part. Of course, if you're like me, that's still asking a bit much, so for $180 you can get the 6600GT, which is another great card, and performs like a 9800XT or 5950 Ultra. If you are patient enough to wait till after christmas if need be, then go for an nForce4 mobo, since it's got all the future features you'd ever want, so it will last you a long while. As for sales, I don't see a whole lot of them in the near future. AMD just had 2 price cuts, one a small unofficial "holiday time" cut, so I don't see them clearing out the old just yet - maybe when the Rev E chips come out with SSE3, but that won't be for another few months. Graphics will likely stay pretty constant, unless ATI's release of the X850 series (and more mainstream X800/X800XL cards) is actually a full fledge launch, not a paper launch. Supply is simply too tight on the new cards for them to lower too much in price. If anything, better supply might bring high end PCIe cards (6800GT, X800XT) back down to "reasonable" prices. With hard drive densities at a standstill, I don't see a whole lot of price cuts there, unless you bargain hunt for clearance drives. Overall, I don't think the situation before and after christmas will be that much different this year, unless NF4 gets delayed till after christmas. I say, as soon as you can get an NF4, go for it.

 

[gobucks]

For video, if you are willing to part with $375 or so, the 6800GT is a fantastic card. It's literally twice as fast as a 9800XT, last year's high end part. Of course, if you're like me, that's still asking a bit much, so for $180 you can get the 6600GT, which is another great card, and performs like a 9800XT or 5950 Ultra. If you are patient enough to wait till after christmas if need be, then go for an nForce4 mobo, since it's got all the future features you'd ever want, so it will last you a long while. As for sales, I don't see a whole lot of them in the near future. AMD just had 2 price cuts, one a small unofficial "holiday time" cut, so I don't see them clearing out the old just yet - maybe when the Rev E chips come out with SSE3, but that won't be for another few months. Graphics will likely stay pretty constant, unless ATI's release of the X850 series (and more mainstream X800/X800XL cards) is actually a full fledge launch, not a paper launch. Supply is simply too tight on the new cards for them to lower too much in price. If anything, better supply might bring high end PCIe cards (6800GT, X800XT) back down to "reasonable" prices. With hard drive densities at a standstill, I don't see a whole lot of price cuts there, unless you bargain hunt for clearance drives. Overall, I don't think the situation before and after christmas will be that much different this year, unless NF4 gets delayed till after christmas. I say, as soon as you can get an NF4, go for it.

 

[Thegonagle]

If I was in your shoes, I'd split my upgrade schedule: New CPU, MB, and RAM first. Then, probably a 6600GT in another month or two; or, if I decided to mess with video capturing or HTPC stuff, an ATI AIW 9800Pro.

I'd probably think about upgrading the hard drive at the same time as the video, giving a great excuse to do a fresh install with the new video drivers. Newer hard drives tend to use the new FDB (fluid dynamic bearing) technology, which means they run quieter than ever, and they tend to stay quiet over time.

While on the subject of killing unnecessary noise, consider the ~$30 Zalman 7000 AlCu HSF for the processor--it's provides excellent cooling, even with the fan turned way down to "quiet" speeds, and even on the current hottie, the Intel P4 Prescott. If you want to upgrade that now, make sure the revision you pick is compatible with both your current socket and your planned upgrade. (I think the current Zalman 7000 comes with all it needs for compatibility with Socket A and newer on the AMD side, and Socket 478 and newer on the Intel side.)

Also good for killing unnecessary noise: A new PSU. The Antec True-Power line is pretty good (True-Power models have a thermally regulated case fan output, too), as is the Fortron FSP-350 with 120mm fan. Better still are PSUs from Zalman, and the Seasonic Super series, the 80mm fan Silencer and the 120mm fan Tornado.

To kill noise most effectively, fan choice is important, but its also important to have good airflow. You need unrestricted exhaust vents, and plenty of intake area, because low speed fans at lowered voltages don't make a lot of pressure. It's best to cut out any stamped fan grills on the case, and either leave them open, or use an add-on wire grill.

I've done this on my Lian-Li PC60. It took a big leaf of faith to do this to my expensive aluminum case, especially cutting out the integrated grill on the top "blow-hole," but I don't regret it one bit. I was careful to tape off any areas I wasn't going to cut with thick tape to prevent a Dremel slip from marring the finish. (It paid off, because I slipped several times.) I also modified the intake filter housing, and cut away some plactic on the bottom of the case bezel to admit more air.

With my new-found air flow, I was able to lower my fan voltages, ELIMINATE the two front intake fans, and still enjoy lowered case temps. My lowered case temps now prevent the Fan on my Fortron FSP-350 from ramping up except during gaming, DC projects, and other long CPU-intensive tasks. (I've still got some work to do, because I enjoy DC projects--but only if I can't "hear" them running)

I took some other steps to lower my noise and case heat, but the air-flow mods I made have probably had the biggest impact. The second-biggest impact was probably from replacing the Zalman VGA heat-pipe cooler on my 9800Pro with an Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer Rev. 3. The Zalman heat-pipe does cool silently, but it dumps the heat inside the case and up into the PSU, causing its thermal circuitry to increase the fan speed. The VGA Silencer, while not 100% silent, is very quiet on low, and it exhausts the VPU heat outside the case through the slot directly below the VGA card, eliminating the second-biggest source of heat inside the case.

So, split up your upgrade schedule to fit your budgeting, and if you want your next system to be quieter, steps one and two are choosing a MB without an unnecessary north bridge fan, and choosing the right HSF for the CPU. I'm fond of the Zalman 7000 AlCu for the CPU because of its outstanding cooling, quiet operation, and exceptional value. After that, start thinking about unrestrictive case air-flow, low-speed case fans at low voltage, quiet thermal-fan PSUs, a VGA Silencer to exhaust the VGA heat from the case, and quiet new hard drives. (Seagate and Samsung are well-regarded choices, with Samsung being quieter, and Seagate faster--I'm running Seagates myself.)

EDIT: Wow, that turned into a long post--but since you expressed concern about noise, I thought I'd share some of my experiences upgrading with an eye toward both performance and reasonably quiet operation.

EDIT 2: Slightly more concise revision of same post.

 

[Xesh]

gobucks - I appreciate the comments. $375 is too much for me also. I got this GF2 pro in August 2001, when it was still a pretty high-end card, and I think it cost me under $200. Are the 6600GT and 9800XT similar cards relative to the state of the technology? It's amazing how many more options there are now...


Thegonagle - thanks for all the insight on noise! My PSU is an expensive 431W one (I thought my old one was broken a few years ago, so I upped for a nice one... turned out it was the mobo) so I'm hesitant to replace it. I don't think that's what's causing the noise, though. It's hard to pinpoint, but I think it's primarily the northbridge fan and the CPU fan, which I knew to be loud when I bought it, but I thought "it can't be THAT bad." Oh, how wrong I was. I think I'll also take a shot at modifying the case, which is indeed poorly ventilated but also cheap, so no worries about the finish. As for the upgrades, that sounds like a good way to stay with my budget, but what do you think about waiting until Christmas has passed?

 

[ponyo]

Wait until around Feb of next year. Christmas holiday season does not help prices.

Until then, research and keep checking the Hot Deals forum.

 

[Farmer]

Xesh:

I know where you're coming from. When I got my geforce256 32MB DDR for $200 (back in 99?), I was thinking "Jesus, $200 for a friggin video card?"

And now, it's insane.

I would simply say get a moderate upgrade that will suffice for a year, and then go all out on a new system.

 

[thegimp03]

I'm with Naustica...if you can, wait until February or March. Newer athlon 64 mobos will be fairly widespread by then and it's possible that prices will come down on stuff right now. Also, there's such high demand for new and expensive hardware during xmas (think: mommy and daddy purchasing little johnny a brand new $2,000 computer), that it is best to wait.

 

[Xesh]

So it'll take a full month for the Christmas price craze to subside? I suppose I can be patient, though it would be nice to do it before I go back to school in mid-Jan. It's as the old saying goes: Beggars can't buy expensive items unless they get really good deals.