Christians on Decline, Non-believers Skyrocketing in US

[Omar F1]

That is the origin story of Moses. The Pharaoh ordered his army to kill all the newborn Hebrew males. Moses was put into the basket and set to float down the river.

During one of the Ten plagues, God kills the first born of everything in a house that does not have lambs blood over the entrance. He kills anything that is first born. Only the Hebrews are saved because god told them to put lambs blood over the entrance.

We're both in total agreement on the first part, but the second one was never mentioned in our history, as is the case of too many old-stories of the Jews.

 

[sandorski]

You don't even read the Bible, Cerpin. Even from a purely logical standpoint, tell me, who's authority do you have to tell me what it says? You may think you're clever with your big words and verse-picking habits, but the reality is, you know nothing about what the Bible says because you don't read it. I read the Bible every day. I see the fruit and the blessings of what it's doing in people's lives when they choose to do the same. I've even seen people physically healed after I've laid hands on them.

The point is, your argument is hollow, because you don't even read or understand what it is you claim to deny.

His "authority" is the same as yours, the literate brain.

 

[soulcougher73]

Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. 11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

AKA you reap what you sow, let other people do their thing and only worry about yourself. Consequences are a bitch and you have only yourself to blame for your actions in the end.

Was that so hard?

So why do Christians try to preach their morals upon people then? If 2 guys want to pound ass. So be it. If they want to get married. So be it. Consequences are a bitch as you say.

Just playing devils advocate 🙂

 

[child of wonder]

You don't even read the Bible, Cerpin. Even from a purely logical standpoint, tell me, who's authority do you have to tell me what it says? You may think you're clever with your big words and verse-picking habits, but the reality is, you know nothing about what the Bible says because you don't read it. I read the Bible every day. I see the fruit and the blessings of what it's doing in people's lives when they choose to do the same. I've even seen people physically healed after I've laid hands on them.

The point is, your argument is hollow, because you don't even read or understand what it is you claim to deny.

"You didn't read the Bible correctly so your argument is invalid."

What you've just said is complete and utter jibberish. Pure nonsense.

Authority? If you read the Bible and I read the Bible neither of us has any more authority than that other. If you read Harry Potter and I read Harry Potter can I claim you don't have any authority to question it because you know nothing about "the fruit and the blessings of what it's doing in people's live?"

Verse picking habits? Should we all only post entire chapters if we want to point out how evil god is? An entire book? What would satisfy you? Oh, that's right, nothing because anything that challenges your comfortable security blanket of a fairy tale is ignored.

If you've healed people with the Bible then why aren't you at your local hospital RIGHT NOW doing everything you can to heal others? Because you're either lying or you're so delusional as to have fooled even yourself into believing it.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Off topic, just wanted to add that I have a new favorite bible passage.

There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses (Ezekiel 23:20)

Maybe this is a book I can get into after all. 😛

 

[Cozarkian]

Most of revelations is doom and gloom end of the world crap, and that is basically the point they were trying to make near the end of revelations.

And it is indeed entirely misquoted.





I'm sorry but I think he missed the entire fucking point of revelations.

Are you suggesting the bible isn't literally true and that it just contains stories intended to convey a moral lesson? That's a dangerous road to travel.

Is it not literally true that Jesus fed a whole village with a few loaves of bread? Is that just a lesson that we should do our best to help everyone even when there aren't enough resources to go around?

Is it not literally true that Jesus is the son of God? Is he just the son of God in the same way that all men are the son of God and the difference is that Jesus acted in a way that would make God proud of his son?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Are you suggesting the bible isn't literally true and that it just contains stories intended to convey a moral lesson? That's a dangerous road to travel.

Is it not literally true that Jesus fed a whole village with a few loaves of bread? Is that just a lesson that we should do our best to help everyone even when there aren't enough resources to go around?

Is it not literally true that Jesus is the son of God? Is he just the son of God in the same way that all men are the son of God and the difference is that Jesus acted in a way that would make God proud of his son?

Exactly, I think you either have to take the bible literally or maybe not at all. If some of it isn't literal, then are the miracles of jesus real? If not, does that make him just a man who preached peace, not unlike MLK or Gandhi, but definitely not the son of god?

 

[bshole]

Most of revelations is doom and gloom end of the world crap, and that is basically the point they were trying to make near the end of revelations.

And it is indeed entirely misquoted.

I'm sorry but I think he missed the entire fucking point of revelations.

Can you explain then what God meant when he said the stars would fall from the sky onto the earth? Even with your supplied context, it makes utterly no sense. One star would incinerate the earth before it reached it. Why would a God who knows the incredible mass of a star make such a proclamation? No modern man would state such a thing because they are much more knowledgeable about what stars are. Please explain what that verse actually means. Can you not see that only a man who believes that stars were nothing more than points of light in the sky could make such a statement?

Another troubling thing is that all of these weird verses were once interpreted as literal truth. As science exposes the absolute preposterousness of each claim, what was once literal truth magically becomes some kind of story to teach us a lesson. Basically Christians would have us believe that it is all divine literal truth until science proves the bs and it becomes figurative.

Here is how Christians NOW interpret that verse (completely differently than the first thousand years of Christianity).

And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, signifies the dispersion of all the knowledges of good and truth. That "stars" signify the knowledges of good and truth, may be seen in (n. 51); that "to fall from heaven to earth" means to be dispersed, is evident; in the spiritual world, also, stars appear to fall from heaven to the earth there, when the knowledges of good and truth perish.

Even as a fig-tree casteth her unripe figs, when shaken by a great wind, signifies by reasonings of the natural man separated from the spiritual. It is said to have this signification, when yet it is a comparison, because all comparisons in the Word are also correspondences, and in the spiritual sense they cohere with the subject treated of, as in the present instance; for "a fig," from correspondence, signifies the natural good of man conjoined with his spiritual good, but here, in the opposite sense, the natural good of man separated from his spiritual good, which is not good; and as the natural man, when separated from the spiritual, perverts by reasonings the knowledges of good and truth, which are signified by the stars, it follows that this is signified by "a fig-tree shaken by a great wind." That "wind" and "storm" signify reasoning, is evident from many passages in the Word, but it is not necessary to adduce them here, because it is a comparison. The reason why "a fig-tree" signifies the natural good of man, is, because every tree signifies something of the church in man, therefore also man with respect thereto. In confirmation are these passages:--

Um right, if you can make those kind of leaps in logic, the Bible can mean anything that anybody makes up. None of it can be read and understood, you will need an interpreter to divine the truth.

Didn't God know that that verse would be an automatic atheist creator? Didn't it bother him? That verse (among hundreds of other) has caused modern Christians to lose their religion.

 

[fskimospy]

Your terminolgy is very wrong.

A christian is a theist and they believe in gods. If you are *a*theist then you are the opposite and believe there is no god. Agnostics are those that believe the evidence is not there to support being either theist or atheist.

By those definitions, theists and atheists have a faith that are the antithesis of one another. Agnostics are the only faithless.

There are many, many definitions of what comprises an atheist, some of which cover both of your positions. His terminology is perfectly reasonable, so no he isn't wrong.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You don't even read the Bible, Cerpin.

The fuck I don't.

Even from a purely logical standpoint, tell me, who's authority do you have to tell me what it says?

I learned to read when I was 3. That's all the authority I need.

You may think you're clever with your big words and verse-picking habits, but the reality is, you know nothing about what the Bible says because you don't read it.

The fuck I don't.

I read the Bible every day.

Maybe you should increase the diversity of your literary consumption.

I see the fruit and the blessings of what it's doing in people's lives when they choose to do the same. I've even seen people physically healed after I've laid hands on them.

Big deal. People say the same of witch doctors, shamans, swamis, monks, and on and on.

The point is, your argument is hollow, because you don't even read or understand what it is you claim to deny.

It doesn't seem like you have even the foggiest idea what my argument is.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I'm sorry but I think he missed the entire fucking point of revelations.

I think you missed the entire point of his argument.

 

[Retro Rob]

You don't even read the Bible, Cerpin.

This doesn't matter, really, as simply reading it doesn't at all indicate that one has the slightest idea of what's being conveyed.

It really depends on how one reads. Are you reading to understand God's will, or are you reading to criticize the personality of the God discussed?

That goes a long way in determing what you get out of it.

 

[SlowSpyder]

This doesn't matter, really, as simply reading it doesn't at all indicate that one has the slightest idea of what's being conveyed.

It really depends on how one reads. Are you reading to understand God's will, or are you reading to criticize the personality of the God discussed?

That goes a long way in determing what you get out of it.

There are many 'holy' texts out there for different religions. If you start reading any one of them assuming it is god's will, how will you know? You've already left out your critical thinking skills as soon as you opened the cover. That is, I could read the koran just the same and feel now I know god's will.

 

[bshole]

This doesn't matter, really, as simply reading it doesn't at all indicate that one has the slightest idea of what's being conveyed.

It really depends on how one reads. Are you reading to understand God's will, or are you reading to criticize the personality of the God discussed?

That goes a long way in determing what you get out of it.

Retro, that is not true. You should go to youtube and so some research. Many of athiests posting videos there are former preachers, youth leaders and people once actively involved in the church. To a man, they once believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God. They studied the Bible rigorously. Eventually the contradictions and failures of the Bible broke their faith as they did mine.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

This doesn't matter, really, as simply reading it doesn't at all indicate that one has the slightest idea of what's being conveyed.

It really depends on how one reads. Are you reading to understand God's will, or are you reading to criticize the personality of the God discussed?

That goes a long way in determing what you get out of it.

Yeah, you can't understand whats in the Bible unless you wear the magic glasses and use the secret decoder ring. 🙄

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Retro, that is not true. You should go to youtube and so some research. Many of athiests posting videos there are former preachers, youth leaders and people once actively involved in the church. To a man, they once believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God. They studied the Bible rigorously. Eventually the contradictions and failures of the Bible broke their faith as they did mine.

Silly monkey. Those guys were never True(tm) Christians. Don't you know Christian doctrine?

Once saved, always saved

There are no ex-Christians. There are only Christians, and men who thought they were Christian, but never were actually saved.

 

[soulcougher73]

This doesn't matter, really, as simply reading it doesn't at all indicate that one has the slightest idea of what's being conveyed.

It really depends on how one reads. Are you reading to understand God's will, or are you reading to criticize the personality of the God discussed?

That goes a long way in determing what you get out of it.

Translation: You're reading it wrong and I know what God's will is.

 

[Retro Rob]

Retro, that is not true. You should go to youtube and so some research.

Yeah, it sounds like youtube is your primary source of factual information.

Many of athiests posting videos there are former preachers, youth leaders and people once actively involved in the church. To a man, they once believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God. They studied the Bible rigorously. Eventually the contradictions and failures of the Bible broke their faith as they did mine.

So what?

C.S Lewis, for example, was a former atheist turned Christian. Does that mean that just because he converted to Chrisitanity, that the Bible is true?

Additionally, you can equally find Christians on "youtube" that claim they study the Bible "rigoursly", and are convinced that it's the word of God.

Truth isn't determined by opinion.

 

[bshole]

C.S Lewis, for example, was a former atheist turned Christian. Does that mean that just because he converted to Chrisitanity, that the Bible is true?

Additionally, you can equally find Christians on "youtube" that claim they study the Bible "rigoursly", and are convinced that it's the word of God.

Truth isn't determined by opinion.

Fair points. Well played.

I would be interested in you interpretation of the stars falling out of the sky bit. Do you have an opinioin on that one?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

CS Lewis was an atheist like Dr. Dre is a doctor.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Yeah, it sounds like youtube is your primary source of factual information.



So what?

C.S Lewis, for example, was a former atheist turned Christian. Does that mean that just because he converted to Chrisitanity, that the Bible is true?

Additionally, you can equally find Christians on "youtube" that claim they study the Bible "rigoursly", and are convinced that it's the word of God.

Truth isn't determined by opinion.

The point is that there were people that read the bible with honest intent to learn what they felt would be the one true god's word only to still come away unsatisfied and not believing. It doesn't prove anything, but the argument that atheists don't read the bible or only read the bible to criticize is simply wrong.

I wanted to believe, to me the story of eternal paradise after I die sounded nicer than having to face the possibility that my consciousness will simply be snuffed out like a candle flame being blown out. But no matter how hard I tried I can't get past how obviously man made and incorrect the bible is (he promised to dry the Nile river in the old testament FFS). You have to warp reality to fit it's narrative and come up with outlandish excuses for why things it says have happened leave no evidence or are plainly wrong. Why didn't he just make it plainly obvious he is god to everyone? The vast majority of the world does not believe in jesus.

The whole concept of a loving god who knew me since before I was born and is omnipotent, omnipresent, and all-knowing but yet I don't believe simply doesn't add up. Your god would have to know how I would turn out, he made me this way, he'd have to see how this would go in my life, yet I'm not allowed to get into heaven for the way he created me? And according to many christians I have an eternity of torture to look forward to because of this. I simply can't reconcile that with 'love'.

It isn't that I didn't put an effort into believing, it's just that it isn't believable.

 

[dank69]

"You didn't read the Bible correctly so your argument is invalid."

What you've just said is complete and utter jibberish. Pure nonsense.

Authority? If you read the Bible and I read the Bible neither of us has any more authority than that other. If you read Harry Potter and I read Harry Potter can I claim you don't have any authority to question it because you know nothing about "the fruit and the blessings of what it's doing in people's live?"

Verse picking habits? Should we all only post entire chapters if we want to point out how evil god is? An entire book? What would satisfy you? Oh, that's right, nothing because anything that challenges your comfortable security blanket of a fairy tale is ignored.

If you've healed people with the Bible then why aren't you at your local hospital RIGHT NOW doing everything you can to heal others? Because you're either lying or you're so delusional as to have fooled even yourself into believing it.

No it's true. He laid hands on a guy with a cold and a week later the guy wasn't sick anymore. Praise be to Jesus.

 

[biostud]

Just because you don't believe in god doesn't make you smart. (said the atheist)

 

[bshole]

The points is that even though I no longer believe, I once did! I have Pascal's Wager covered. I can't go to hell. Once you have accepted the gift of salvation, God will never take it away, it says so right in the Bible. I am just a backslider so I will be rewarded much less than the other believers but at least I won't burn in hell fire with all the unsaved riff-raff. Bahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! SUCK IT!!!!!!!!

I was hoping an athiest would comment on this. Even though my faith in a Christian God has dissipated, why should I as an agnostic take comfort in the fact that I once was "saved" and thus will go to heaven even though I don't believe in it anymore (in the highly improbable event that the God of the Bible exists).

 

[soulcougher73]

No it's true. He laid hands on a guy with a cold and a week later the guy wasn't sick anymore. Praise be to Jesus.

I wonder what level Paladin he was to pull that off.