Christians on Decline, Non-believers Skyrocketing in US

[OverVolt]

But how else can they deflect if not for that? :whiste:

Defining terms is one of the most important steps in writing a persuasive argument per Argumentative English in college. If everyone defines the terms differently you won't even be able to understand the argument being made. Per the atheism definition drama above. Apparently you guys are making up your own terms for different things as you go along which damages credibility.

You guys are ignorant.

 

[soulcougher73]

Its part of world religions in college. Minus the internet-esque hyperbole and mocking. Alot of symbolism in the bible actually predates the bible.

And this didnt raise a red flag at all for you? Shows how good indoctrination at the right age can fuck you over i guess.

 

[OverVolt]

They just ignore it cause it hurts their small brains and egos.

Yea because a site that has to put a "this is not a conspiracy" disclaimer on it just reeks of intelligence and confidence if you actually bothered to click the link you quoted.

 

[realibrad]

I GET it. But what you are saying is wrong. So no, you can't convince me that an atheist and a theist can be the same person.

I am sure that you are right that I cannot convince you, but that does not mean I am wrong.

 

[mindmajick]

Defining terms is one of the most important steps in writing a persuasive argument per Argumentative English in college. If everyone defines the terms differently you won't even be able to understand the argument being made. Per the atheism definition drama above. Apparently you guys are making up your own terms for different things as you go along which damages credibility.

You guys are ignorant.

Glad i know I'm an agnostic then.

When it comes to religion.. I have no answers. No faith in religion and no faith in atheism.

Both require faith.

 

[bshole]

Yea you are dumb. Thats not what I'm saying and you know it but its a religion thread so you think you can get away with it. What I mean is that atheists are spiritually depraved and proud of it. Its a very uninspired way to live life. In order to make the sacrifices required to make a difference in the world one has to be spiritual to a degree. Atheists will not age well. I don't see them doing anything really worth a damn. You guys won't realize it until you're 80. Luckily I see it in my 20's when I still have my whole life ahead of me. You guys are going to waste yours. I know it.

Not sure what you mean by "spiritually depraved". Why would you assume that because one loses interest in God that one also loses interest in their fellow man? The top three philanthropists in the United States are all atheists:

Warren Buffett (atheist, donated $40.785 billion to “health, education, humanitarian causes&#8221😉
Bill & Melinda Gates (atheists, donated $27.602 billion to “global health and development, education&#8221😉
George Soros (atheist, donated $6.936 billion to “open and democratic societies&#8221😉

For my own part, I do not dislike any people for their religious beliefs. I judge them on their behaviour.

 

[realibrad]

Glad i know I'm an agnostic then.

When it comes to religion.. I have no answers. No faith in religion and no faith in atheism.

Both require faith.

How does atheism need to have faith?

You are an atheist when you don't believe in the gods you know of. Unless you start on the whole "atheist KNOW there is not a god" argument.

Agnostics are people whom believe there is evidence for and against, but not enough to persuade either way.

Atheist say there is not evidence for a god(s) so they do not believe.

The only thing that takes faith is religion. as faith is the belief without evidence. Atheist don't believe because there is not evidence. Atheist do not ignore evidence to not believe.

 

[OverVolt]

Glad i know I'm an agnostic then.

When it comes to religion.. I have no answers. No faith in religion and no faith in atheism.

Both require faith.

Ugh yeah I agree though. Atheists have blind beliefs just like the religious but they really have issues with the concept of faith/belief.

How does atheism need to have faith?

You are an atheist when you don't believe in the gods you know of. Unless you start on the whole "atheist KNOW there is not a god" argument.

Agnostics are people whom believe there is evidence for and against, but not enough to persuade either way.

Atheist say there is not evidence for a god(s) so they do not believe.

The only thing that takes faith is religion. as faith is the belief without evidence. Atheist don't believe because there is not evidence. Atheist do not ignore evidence to not believe.

Like this guy :awe:

 

[mindmajick]

How does atheism need to have faith?

You are an atheist when you don't believe in the gods you know of. Unless you start on the whole "atheist KNOW there is not a god" argument.

Agnostics are people whom believe there is evidence for and against, but not enough to persuade either way.

Atheist say there is not evidence for a god(s) so they do not believe.

The only thing that takes faith is religion. as faith is the belief without evidence. Atheist don't believe because there is not evidence. Atheist do not ignore evidence to not believe.

Smh. I'm going to ignore the semantics for a second even though you really need to grab a dictionary. We can't communicate this way.

--
Go ahead and prove a negative. You CANNOT PROVE there is no God. It doesn't matter what you believe.

There is NO EVIDENCE that there is not a god.

There is no evidence that there is a god.

Neither side has ANY real ammunition.

Edit:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist?s=t

 

[realibrad]

Smh. I'm going to ignore the semantics for a second even though you really need to grab a dictionary. We can't communicate this way.

--
Go ahead and prove a negative. You CANNOT PROVE there is no God. It doesn't matter what you believe.

There is NO EVIDENCE that there is not a god.

There is no evidence that there is a god.

Neither side has ANY real ammunition.

Right. So an Atheist, because they cannot prove a negative, and lacking any valid proof there is a god, does not believe there is a god. An Agnostic is someone whom says there might be a god, but cannot decide either way.

Atheists cannot prove there is not a god. That does not make the stance of an atheist one of faith. The first definition does not apply here, but the second definition of faith does.

strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

Faith is the belief in something without proof. Atheists do not believe in something without proof. Thus atheists dont have faith. It does not mean that atheist are right or wrong, it simply means that by definition, atheists do not have faith.

 

[Darwin333]

The way heaven was described to me was this: You know the feeling of absolute bliss? Maybe it's was Christmas time as a kid and you opened presents? And you had that joy? (Sorry not Christmas, happy solstice day. Ugh) Maybe it was the time as an Atheist you proved some Christian wrong about something? That bliss...

Heaven is like that, all the time. Every second you'll be in total bliss. When you are in heaven you don't have somber thoughts about what happened to your son and if they ended up in hell. It's just irrelevant at that point. You no longer have to worry about them. You let God shoulder than burden.

Sorry to say, your ancestors in heaven don't care about you anymore. Why should they?

So in a nutshell God gives you a really good dose of ecstasy that never ends?

 

[Darwin333]

Why the fuck does he bother having an earth at all? Why not skip the earth portion of human existence altogether and create us in Heaven? I can't think of a single logical explanation for earth existence other than God looking for an excuse to put 99% of his creations in Hell.

For the same reason you might have had an ant farm when you were a kid and every once in a while you shake it up just to piss the ants off.

 

[mindmajick]

Right. So an Atheist, because they cannot prove a negative, and lacking any valid proof there is a god, does not believe there is a god. An Agnostic is someone whom says there might be a god, but cannot decide either way.

Atheists cannot prove there is not a god. That does not make the stance of an atheist one of faith. The first definition does not apply here, but the second definition of faith does.



Faith is the belief in something without proof. Atheists do not believe in something without proof. Thus atheists dont have faith. It does not mean that atheist are right or wrong, it simply means that by definition, atheists do not have faith.

This is painful. Obviously we do not speak the same language OR you choose to purposely misunderstand.

Either way.. Good luck communicating with other humans

 

[bshole]

For the same reason you might have had an ant farm when you were a kid and every once in a while you shake it up just to piss the ants off.

It is an extremely valid question which no Christian (including my parents, brothers and pastors I knew) have come remotely close to answering with any degree of common sense. The only answer that makes any sense at all is that God wants to send a majority of his creations into eternal torment. Our all knowing, all powerful God says he wants all his creations in heaven and yet somehow lacks the intelligence and/or power to CREATE THEM IN HEAVEN?!?!?!?

If I say I want something I do not do something else entirely that is GUARANTEED to prevent me from achieving my goal. For example, if my main goal in life is to preserve wildlife and to kill no living creature, is it logical for me to go into the woods and shoot a machine gun at every living thing I see? Either I am a liar or I am extremely stupid...

 

[realibrad]

This is painful. Obviously we do not speak the same language OR you choose to purposely misunderstand.

Either way.. Good luck communicating with other humans

Not been a problem for me, so I dont see why it might in the future.

Are you going to to explain how faith does not mean belief without evidence?

 

[mindmajick]

Not been a problem for me, so I dont see why it might in the future.

Are you going to to explain how faith does not mean belief without evidence?

Dude. I can't. You couldn't even get the basic definitions right. How could i possibly explain something to you?!

Edit: maybe pictures?

Doubt that'll work. You're obviously wasting my time.

 

[realibrad]

Dude. I can't. You couldn't even get the basic definitions right. How could i possibly explain something to you?!

Then could you help me understand how my definitions are wrong?

Atheism - Lack of belief in a god(s)
Agnostic - Does not have disbelieve or believe in god(s)
Theist - Believes in a god(s)

 

[realibrad]

Dude. I can't. You couldn't even get the basic definitions right. How could i possibly explain something to you?!

Edit: maybe pictures?

Doubt that'll work. You're obviously wasting my time.

Are you not reading my posts? The first definition does not apply in our context, but the 2nd one does.

Faith means a belief without evidence. What do atheists believe in without evidence?

 

[mindmajick]

Are you not reading my posts? The first definition does not apply in our context, but the 2nd one does.

Faith means a belief without evidence. What do atheists believe in without evidence?

They believe that there is NOT a god.

It's well known, scientifically and mathematically, that you cannot prove a NOT. Ask any scientist, please.

Each word in language is very important. That is why, when you compare the dictionary definitions and your own, there are discrepancies.

 

[realibrad]

They believe that there is NOT a god.

It's well known, scientifically and mathematically, that you cannot prove a NOT. Ask any scientist, please.

Each word in language is very important. That is why, when you compare the dictionary definitions and your own, there are discrepancies.

I am fully aware of the logical fallacy that you cannot disprove a negative. I am not asking for that.

Belief is not the same as faith.

I do not believe there is a god, because there is not evidence. Lacking belief in something is no the same as believing in nothing. Atheists do not believe there is a god, not that the know there is not a god. Again, I already explained that. Its like you are not reading the posts. You are not obligated to, but it sure makes things easier when you do.

Atheists lack belief in god, they do not believe there is not a god. If someone says the believe there is not a god, they are speaking incorrectly, unless they have evidence, which inherently they cannot. Faith is the belief in something without evidence.

This is why an atheist cannot have faith. Its inherent to the view.

*Edit

The reason you cannot prove a negative has nothing to do with math. Logic is not math, but math is logical.

 

[bshole]

They believe that there is NOT a god.

It's well known, scientifically and mathematically, that you cannot prove a NOT. Ask any scientist, please.

Each word in language is very important. That is why, when you compare the dictionary definitions and your own, there are discrepancies.

I am kind of more agnostic, God could exist or not exist but there currently is no way for humanity to determine that with the limited technology at our disposal. Proving his non-existence is completely impossible if he does not exist, however if he does exist, it is theoretically possible for us to prove his existence. I am more inclined to believe there is a God(s) of some sort than not to (based on nothing other than idle supposition and the fact that everything is sooooo fucking complex, from the universe to dna molecules). Hopefully this theoretical God(s) has a plan for me that includes eternal bliss. A million year orgam would be high on my list of things to do in heaven.

 

[crownjules]

Atheists lack belief in god, they do not believe there is not a god. If someone says the believe there is not a god, they are speaking incorrectly, unless they have evidence, which inherently they cannot. Faith is the belief in something without evidence.

This is why an atheist cannot have faith. Its inherent to the view.

Your terminolgy is very wrong.

A christian is a theist and they believe in gods. If you are *a*theist then you are the opposite and believe there is no god. Agnostics are those that believe the evidence is not there to support being either theist or atheist.

By those definitions, theists and atheists have a faith that are the antithesis of one another. Agnostics are the only faithless.

 

[realibrad]

Your terminolgy is very wrong.

A christian is a theist and they believe in gods. If you are *a*theist then you are the opposite and believe there is no god. Agnostics are those that believe the evidence is not there to support being either theist or atheist.

By those definitions, theists and atheists have a faith that are the antithesis of one another. Agnostics are the only faithless.

No.

Again, believing in nothing is not the same as not believing.

An atheist is someone who does not have belief in. Its not someone who believes nothing. The reason a person is an atheist is because they do not see evidence supporting a god(s). That means the lack belief in. Faith is believing in something without evidence.

Atheist. No evidence, does not have a belief.
Theist. No evidence, has a belief.
Agnostic. No evidence, does not claim belief or disbelief.

Atheist and theist are mutually exclusive. Atheist and Agnostic are not mutually exclusive.

*Edit

Because there can never be evidence to disprove god, agnostics cannot believe there could be evidence for atheism. Its inherent to logic.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Go ahead and prove a negative. You CANNOT PROVE there is no God. It doesn't matter what you believe.

If I can prove a negative, will you leave this forum and never return? If I fail, I agree to leave the forum and never return.

Or do you wish to retract your implicit claim that a negative cannot be proven?

There is NO EVIDENCE that there is not a god.

There's lots of evidence that SOME gods do not exist.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Your terminolgy is very wrong.

A christian is a theist and they believe in gods. If you are *a*theist then you are the opposite and believe there is no god. Agnostics are those that believe the evidence is not there to support being either theist or atheist.

By those definitions, theists and atheists have a faith that are the antithesis of one another. Agnostics are the only faithless.

The negation of X is not-X. Where X is "believes a God exists" not-X is "does not believe a God exists." That is not semantically equivalent to "believes exactly 0 gods exist."