Christians: Christianity is a cult.

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Connoisseur
ehh with that definition ANY religion is a cult. The only thing that separates a cult from any other faith is that they don't agree with the mainstream at the time.

That's my point, all religions are cults. So excluding one is stupid.

So back in the middle ages, atheism would be a cult? I swear, some days people say such stupid stuff I think the human race should be wiped off the face of the earth.:roll:

It fits this definition (IMO):

Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.

So Mac owners are cult members? 😉

:laugh:

Steve Jobs is the High Grand Poobah of Macintoshian Enlightenment, all hail his name, and pray for salvation when the G4 Cube, once crucified, returns to Earth in smaller, sleeker, more compact form.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
It fits this definition (IMO):

Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.

I don't think I've met a single person in the world who doesn't have an obsessive devotion or veneration for something. Guess everyone's a cult member.

The purpose of language is to communicate. A word has a certain definition, with the idea that everyone who hears the word gets an idea of what the other person is talking about. This means that some words acquire negative connotations.

In your case, you're just trying to stretch the definition of the word in order to be able to hang a negative label on something you don't like. English allows for the definitions of words to change over time, but only if the majority of people accept the new definitions. Most people wouldn't consider "cult" to be a word applicable to Christianity. Thus...it isn't.

Sorry, but you're just as bad as the people who insist that evolution be called a "theory" because they want the uncertainty that your average layperson assigns to the word, to stick to evolution.

 

[spunkz]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: RadeonGuy
GO FVCK YOURSELF AND GO TOSS YOUR DADS SALAD

This "person" most emphatically does _NOT_ speak for the rest of us Christians.

RadeonGuy, you really need to think things over and adopt a more mature posture. "People" like yourself are the main reason that Christianity catches the flack that it does. Calm down, realise that you should be ashamed of your post, and resolve to handle things better in the future, OK?

ZV

he was joking man, chill out. and do you really talk that way in real life? adopt a more mature posture?

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: EpsiIon
It seems like this thread will never be anything but a "source of confrontation and continued disruptions." If the mods really think their main duty "is to make sure these forums run smoothly," then you should get at least a warning and lock if not a ban and lock.

Why a ban? There have been abusive anti-religion threads that made it through. My thread is neither abusive, nor anti-religious.

But you're an "Elite" member, so I'm guessing they won't do anything to you. A double standard? I guess we'll see...

I can tell you now, there _is_ a double standard. Who questions that fact?

I don't think you should be banned. I was just saying one or the other would be the appropriate course of action. I think a warning and lock would be the most appropriate. 🙂

I'm glad you agree that there's a double standard. Now I just wish the mods would acknowledge it and do something about it.

[EDIT] Of course, if I start a thread about it in Forum Issues, it will be deleted and I'll be warned. Perhaps one of you "Elite" members should do it. 🙂[/EDIT]

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
It fits this definition (IMO):

Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.

I don't think I've met a single person in the world who doesn't have an obsessive devotion or veneration for something. Guess everyone's a cult member.

The purpose of language is to communicate. A word has a certain definition, with the idea that everyone who hears the word gets an idea of what the other person is talking about. This means that some words acquire negative connotations.

In your case, you're just trying to stretch the definition of the word in order to be able to hang a negative label on something you don't like. English allows for the definitions of words to change over time, but only if the majority of people accept the new definitions. Most people wouldn't consider "cult" to be a word applicable to Christianity. Thus...it isn't.

Sorry, but you're just as bad as the people who insist that evolution be called a "theory" because they want the uncertainty that your average layperson assigns to the word, to stick to evolution.

Most of ATOT would be members of "The Cult of the Right Hand."

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: EpsiIon

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: EpsiIon
It seems like this thread will never be anything but a "source of confrontation and continued disruptions." If the mods really think their main duty "is to make sure these forums run smoothly," then you should get at least a warning and lock if not a ban and lock.

Why a ban? There have been abusive anti-religion threads that made it through. My thread is neither abusive, nor anti-religious.

But you're an "Elite" member, so I'm guessing they won't do anything to you. A double standard? I guess we'll see...

I can tell you now, there _is_ a double standard. Who questions that fact?

I don't think you should be banned. I was just saying one or the other would be the appropriate course of action. I think a warning and lock would be the most appropriate. 🙂

I think a lock would be most appropriate, since people had to crap in my thread. :| (Did I spin that well enough? 😉)

I'm glad you agree that there's a double standard. Now I just wish the mods would acknowledge it and do something about it.

Humans are imperfect. And lazy. Can't forget lazy.

 

[dderidex]

I continue to maintain your definition is wrong:
Indeed, use a more useful definition. I've seen that list posted in a few places, or close variations of it, so I'd feel happy calling it the commonly accepted definition.

How They Do This

[*]Their leader/s may claim a special, exclusive ministry, revelation or position of authority given by God.
[*]They believe they are the only true church and take a critical stance regarding the Christian church while at the same time praising and exalting their own group, leader/s and work.
[*]They use intimidation or psychological manipulation to keep members loyal to their ranks. This could be in the form of threats of dire calamity sent by God if they leave; certain death at Armageddon; being shunned by their family and friends etc. This is a vital part of the mind control process.
[*]Members will be expected to give substantial financial support to the group. This could be compulsory tithing (which is checked); signing over all their property on entering the group; coercive methods of instilling guilt on those who have not contributed; selling magazines, flowers or other goods for the group as part of their ?ministry?.
[*]At the same time bible-based cults may ridicule churches that take up free-will offerings by passing collection plates and/or sell literature and tapes. They usually brag that they don?t do this. This gives outsiders the intimation that they are not interested in money.
[*]There will be great emphasis on loyalty to the group and its teachings. The lives of members will be totally absorbed into the group?s activities. They will have little or no time to think for themselves because of physical and emotional exhaustion. This is also a vital part of the mind control process.
[*]There will be total control over almost all aspects of the private lives of members. This control can be direct through communal living, or constant and repetitious teaching on ?how to be a true Christian? or ?being obedient to leadership?. Members will look to their leaders for guidance in everything they do.
[*]Bible-based cults may proclaim they have no clergy/laity distinction and no paid ministry class - that they are all equal.
[*]Any dissent or questioning of the group?s teachings is discouraged. Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion. There will be an emphasis on authority, unquestioning obedience and submission. This is vigilantly maintained.
[*]Members are required to demonstrate their loyalty to the group in some way. This could be in the form of ?dobbing? on fellow members (including family) under the guise of looking out for their ?spiritual welfare?. They may be required to deliberately lie (heavenly deception) or give up their lives by refusing some form of medical treatment.
[*]Attempts to leave or reveal embarrassing facts about the group may be met with threats. Some may have taken oaths of loyalty that involve their lives or have signed a ?covenant? and feel threatened by this.
[*]Refugees of the group are usually faced with confrontations by other members with coercion to get them to return to the group.

Some Abuses Of Rights And Freedoms:
1. Abuse Of Individuality: They adopt a ?groupness? mentality. They are not permitted to think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what they are told.

2. Abuse Of Intimacy: Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children, parents etc are broken or seriously hampered.

3. Abuse Of Finances: Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal groups, members usually live at the lower socio-economic strata, not because of a lower income level, but because they are always giving money to the group for some reason.

4. ?Us Versus Them? Mentality: Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and everything outside the group is seen as ?of the devil? or ?unenlightened? etc. Their enemies now include former friends; the Christian church; governments; education systems; the media - the world in general. Those who are involved with these in any way see such involvement as a ?means to an end?.

5. Abuse Of Time And Energy: The group controls and uses almost all the members time and energy in group activities. They are usually in a constant state of mental and physical exhaustion.

6. Abuse Of Free Will: They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and directions and their own free will is broken. Their ?will? actually becomes the groups ?will? without their realizing it. This is done either by coercive methods including low protein diets and lack of sleep, or over a period of time through intimidation. Both methods make heavy use of ?guilt?.

Results Of This Abuse
1. Personality Changes
Relatives will say they no longer recognize the person. From a warm, loving personality will come heaped abuse, rejection and feelings of hate. The cult member sees himself as ?righteous? in comparison and this comes across in their attitude toward all outsiders.

2. Loss Of Identity
They cannot see themselves as individuals apart from the group. Some even change their name as a rejection of their former life.

3. Paranoid - We Are Being Persecuted
Any time you say anything negative about the group, whether justified or no, it is regarded as ?persecution?. Any criticism of the individual is also seen as persecution only because they are the ?true Christian? or ?enlightened? one - not because they, as an individual, have done the wrong thing. However, at the same time they will feel free to criticise whatever you believe, say and do because they are ?the only ones who are right?.

4. Social Disorientation
They lose their ability to socialize outside the group. This can go so far as to not being able to structure their time or make simple decisions for themselves when they leave.

Their world-view alters and they perceive the world through their leaders eyes. They become very naive about life in general.

5. Severe Guilt Complexes
They are made to feel guilty of everything they did before entering the group and are to strive to be ?good? and ?worthy? for ?eternal life?. Misdemeanors are made into ?mountains? so that members are in a constant state of guilt for infringing even the most minor rules. Guilt comes because they aren?t doing enough; entertaining doubts or questions; even thinking rationally for oneself.

This guilt is piled upon pile with new rules constantly being laid down about what is sinful and what is not. Illness may be seen as lack of faith - more guilt. Emotional illness may be seen as proof of sin in your life - more guilt.

Summary
Not all these points will be found in every cult, but all cults will have some if not most of them, although these may vary to some degree.

You are missing the important points in that list:
* The CULT breaks down family ties - as in, requires family members to not associate with others - based on their status in the cult
* The CULT teaches an "us vs them" mentality. Not just team-based, but actually "they are out to destroy us, damn our eternal souls to hell, and every single person everywhere not in our religion is 'them' who would kill us if they could"
* You aren't allowed to decide to leave the cult. I'm not aware of any churches that won't LET you leave. Discourage? Sure, but only because "it's better if you stayed". Not like the cult reaction of "If you go, you will be punished". If you leave a football team, your family doesn't stop talking to you and kick you out of the house.

I mean, I could go on and on.

Again, many organizations may technically hit a few of those points, but that means nothing. A cult will hit NEARLY ALL OF THEM - only 1 or 2 excepted maybe (almost all cults do hit every one, though), and not in a "technically" way. When a cult is "abusing free will" it's not a coach suggesting you put more time into football practice. It's a religious leader telling you that unless you attend more meetings, contribute more money, stick to the religions teachings better, and quit questioning things, they are going to cut you off from your family and friends and you will die at Armeggedon, if not sooner (hint, hint).

 

[quakefiend420]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Feldenak
You have a point other than posting flamebait?

Yes. Christianity is a cult.

agreed...but to each their own

 

[Zenmervolt]

While you're right that any religion would fit at least some aspects of the technical, denotative definition of a cult, the fact remains that when the average person (and even the non-average person in the majority of cases) uses the word "cult" he is decidedly _not_ using the technical, denotative, definition. The term is not used as a value-less descriptive as it is on Dictionary.com, but instead is used as a pejorative describing a group of people who are led by a person or persons who is (are) severely clinically abnormal from a psychological standpoint.

ZV

 

[quakefiend420]

Originally posted by: raildogg
so what? as long as they dont hate other people and commit crime based on religion, it doesn't matter

more people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason...

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
It fits this definition (IMO):

Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.

I don't think I've met a single person in the world who doesn't have an obsessive devotion or veneration for something. Guess everyone's a cult member.

The purpose of language is to communicate. A word has a certain definition, with the idea that everyone who hears the word gets an idea of what the other person is talking about. This means that some words acquire negative connotations.

In your case, you're just trying to stretch the definition of the word in order to be able to hang a negative label on something you don't like. English allows for the definitions of words to change over time, but only if the majority of people accept the new definitions. Most people wouldn't consider "cult" to be a word applicable to Christianity. Thus...it isn't.

Sorry, but you're just as bad as the people who insist that evolution be called a "theory" because they want the uncertainty that your average layperson assigns to the word, to stick to evolution.

I don't like connotations. They take perfectly good words and pervert them. I'm just pointing out a truth. Kind of like how the word hacker just means someone that likes to think a bit different, and figure out problems. They're nothing bad.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
While you're right that any religion would fit at least some aspects of the technical, denotative definition of a cult, the fact remains that when the average person (and even the non-average person in the majority of cases) uses the word "cult" he is decidedly _not_ using the technical, denotative, definition. The term is not used as a value-less descriptive as it is on Dictionary.com, but instead is used as a pejorative describing a group of people who are led by a person or persons who is (are) severely clinically abnormal from a psychological standpoint.

ZV

Then you have been educated on the proper definition. 🙂

 

[RiDE]

So some people don't agree with you. That's nice.

Get over it.

 

[EndGame]

No, this is dictionary.com's definition...............

Chris·ti·an·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (krsch-n-t, krst-)
n.
The Christian religion, founded on the life and teachings of Jesus.
Christians as a group; Christendom.
The state or fact of being a Christian.
pl. Chris·ti·an·i·ties A particular form or sect of the Christian religion: the Christianities of antiquity.