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Christian Science..... (no, not "that" christian science)

deftron

Lifer
Nov 17, 2000
10,868
1
0
According to Christian, Jewish, and Muslim belief, the world went from nothing to its modern form with humans in seven days, right?

How do they explian things like dinosaurs and other evidence that life existed millions of years before humans came along?


Is that "seven days" just a figurative statement, and was really a few billion years because
God considers millions of years one day?






edited: Thanks b0mbrman
 

yobarman

Lifer
Jan 11, 2001
11,642
1
0
originally there was 8 days, but then i was like "damn god, that's just too many days in the week." So god said "alright, cool cool. I'll just make the world in 7 days. No wait...6, but I'll sit on my ass on the seventh."


And he's been on his ass ever since.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
As I have posted, before, religion is a bad excuse for philosophy. Both attempt to answer questions about the unknown, but at least in philosophy, "I don't know" is an acceptable answer.

AFIC, religion is just one more political power structure whose primary directive is contiunuing and expanding its own existance and control over groups of people.
 

Wallydraigle

Banned
Nov 27, 2000
10,754
1
0
Some Christians actually do believe that the universe went from squat to fully formed with humans in seven literal days. Most people agree that this is madness. Those who believe this contend that the dinosaur bones and other evidence of an ancient earth were put there by the devil to lead the unwarry astray, or by God as a test of faith.

Most Christians however hold that time as we know it means very little to God and that the "seven days" was metaphorical, or indicates stages in which the creator brought things into being. They hold that the ammount of time in each "day" is indeterminate, and all "days" need not be of the same duration.
 

Thanatopsis

Golden Member
Feb 7, 2000
1,464
1
0
Have you noticed that all this thread has been is people bashing Christianity, with hardly any explanation?

And you all wonder why the Christians don't pop into these threads - you are all as close minded as you claim them to be.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0


<< And you all wonder why the Christians don't pop into these threads - you are all as close minded as you claim them to be. >>

you know what, you might have a good point.
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
1
0


<< Some Christians actually do believe that the universe went from squat to fully formed with humans in seven literal days. Most people agree that this is madness. Those who believe this contend that the dinosaur bones and other evidence of an ancient earth were put there by the devil to lead the unwarry astray, or by God as a test of faith. >>


This is incorrect. I do not know the proportions, but there are some people who believe the literal 7-days creation, who say that the bones of dinosaurs and many fossils were placed where they are by the worldwide flood recorded in the book of Genesis in the Bible. If you don't believe me go visit the web site of theInstitute for Creation Research.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81


<< Have you noticed that all this thread has been is people bashing Christianity, with hardly any explanation?
And you all wonder why the Christians don't pop into these threads - you are all as close minded as you claim them to be.
>>


That's what I'm talking about...the same thing goes with people here in Berkeley who claim to be proponents of Free Speech...It's all well and good to say whatever you want to say--that is, until it goes against what they believe
 

xirtam

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2001
4,693
0
0
In religion, "I don't know" is an acceptable answer.

This said, "I don't know." And I don't think anybody else does either.

What do I know? Well, not much. The more I learn, the more I learn I don't know. Let me tell you what I do know. First, let me give you an example of someone who likes to put words in people's mouths. We refer to the arguments of these people as "strawmen."



<< Some Christians actually do believe that the universe went from squat to fully formed with humans in seven literal days. Most people agree that this is madness. Those who believe this contend that the dinosaur bones and other evidence of an ancient earth were put there by the devil to lead the unwarry astray, or by God as a test of faith.
Most Christians however hold that time as we know it means very little to God and that the "seven days" was metaphorical, or indicates stages in which the creator brought things into being. They hold that the ammount of time in each "day" is indeterminate, and all "days" need not be of the same duration.
>>



Ok. First of all, whether God took 7 seconds, 7 days, 7 million days, or 7 trillion days to create the world makes no difference to me. Perhaps the best part of the above quote is that "time as we know it means very little to God." I just don't see how the world could have gotten here on it's own, and it doesn't make sense to me to believe that it has always been in existence. There are a ton of examples of systems of apparently irreducible complexity that cause me to believe that there's some design and some structure to the universe, and this design and structure couldn't -- in my mind -- have happened by random and unguided processes. Madness? I don't think so. No more mad than believing that a Boeing 747 is the product of scientific engineering and not a tornado.

Second, please don't argue that all those who believe in a literal 6-day creation (7th was nap time) hold to the idea that dinosaur bones and "evidence of an ancient earth" were placed here by the devil or by God. First of all, I don't think the devil is in the business of bone-making... do you? Secondly, to believe that God did it requires the belief that God is a deceiver. That destroys the Christian perception of God. Plus, it doesn't make sense.

Third, I don't see evidence that suggests that the earth is old. I also see evidence that indicates the contrary. It's not like the evidence is wildly pointing in either direction, and right now both ideas seem quite absurd to me. Tons of holes in both theories... if you can call them theories. The fossil evidence doesn't side with evolution... which is why when things like Piltdown Man and Archaeoraptor come up, scientists jump on them, claiming them as "missing links" which are no longer missing. Sooner or later, more evidence is discovered that causes us to discover the truth about these so-called "missing links." Is that a strong defense of Creationism? Naw... it's merely part of the reason why I don't like evolution. That doesn't provide Creation with any more credibility -- a lack of evidence isn't very strong support for a belief system.

Whether most Christians hold that the seven days is metaphorical or not, I cannot say. I don't really think it makes that much difference. That wasn't the focus of Genesis 1. Genesis -- and the rest of the Bible -- is not meant to explain the world. We can see the world. Genesis was written to introduce us to the Creator. And while we can look into how He might have done all this stuff, the fact remains that we really don't know. And I think that's an acceptable answer.

As far as evidence is concerned, I see very little in direct support of either side. I do see a *lot* of evidence, and both sides just kind of twist it together to fit into their little framework so they can try to justify themselves as superior intellectually to the other side. Then, when challenges come up, the sides give a little. Creationists come up with the idea of theistic evolution -- the idea that God worked through evolution. This doesn't make sense, because Darwinian evolution was designed to explain why we don't need a God to cause speciation -- just unguided, random processes. Likewise, the evolutionists come up with the idea of "punctuated equilibrium" to explain why there's a huge lack of fossil evidence in support of evolution. I'm tired of playing the game.

This much I know: I exist. I am a complex, integrated life form.

This much I can reasonably infer: I was created.
 

db

Lifer
Dec 6, 1999
10,575
292
126
Ok, if this is so simple, whether or not the world was created in 7 days:
Just where IS the world, and what WAS before it was created?

You guys are just splitting hairs--let's go for the BIG questions!
 

Wallydraigle

Banned
Nov 27, 2000
10,754
1
0


<< << Some Christians actually do believe that the universe went from squat to fully formed with humans in seven literal days. Most people agree that this is madness. Those who believe this contend that the dinosaur bones and other evidence of an ancient earth were put there by the devil to lead the unwarry astray, or by God as a test of faith. >>


This is incorrect. I do not know the proportions, but there are some people who believe the literal 7-days creation, who say that the bones of dinosaurs and many fossils were placed where they are by the worldwide flood recorded in the book of Genesis in the Bible. If you don't believe me go visit the web site of theInstitute for Creation Research.
>>



Dude, that site is huge and I don't feel like spending much time there real soon. Okay, so some fundamealist Christians believe that the bones were washed to where they are now by the flood. How does that conflict with what I said? Where do fundamentalist Christians believe that the dinosaur bones came from in the first place if it wasn't from dinosaurs which lived millions of years ago?

There really are people who believe that the bones were put in the ground as they are as a test of faith. Dont believe me? Go visit here, here, or here.. There seems to be no shortage of either Christians or Jews who actually believe this.
 

Wallydraigle

Banned
Nov 27, 2000
10,754
1
0
Xirtam, look dude, I wasn't trying to build any strawmen here. I usually take up the defensive against the atheist know-it-alls who frequent this board. In fact I've been told that I live in my own little and I am a victim of superstition a time or two. I never said that all Christians believe that, and I never meant to imply that
rolleye.gif
I'm sorry you took it that way.
 

chaddeus

Guest
Dec 14, 2001
109
0
0
Let me reply using my limited knowledge. THere are a few arguements here. One of course is to say that Dino don't exist at all and they are simply some fossils blah blah blah. Another one which may sound more reasonable than the first one is to say that the 7 days isn't equal to the 7 days we are at now. God seven days could like like a few billion years to us. In short, time does not exist during that time.

As for those Dino or other animals, remember that God created animals first so... you can say that the animals are also dinosours.

- Charles
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
1
0


<< Okay, so some fundamealist Christians believe that the bones were washed to where they are now by the flood. How does that conflict with what I said? >>


You said that all Christians who don't believe in the long ages believe that Satan or God put the bones there for a "test."


<< Where do fundamentalist Christians believe that the dinosaur bones came from in the first place if it wasn't from dinosaurs which lived millions of years ago? >>


They generally believe that the dinosaurs were created and existed at the same time as the people. Also, they believe that the dinosaurs did not bother the people at first, because when the world was perfect (before the people sinned), all creatures (people included) were vegetarian.


<< There really are people who believe that the bones were put in the ground as they are as a test of faith. Dont believe me? Go visit here, here, or here.. There seems to be no shortage of either Christians or Jews who actually believe this. >>


I'm not arguing with you on that, since there seems to be no shortage of people in the world who will believe anything, no matter how strange. But nevertheless, I've met lots of Christian people, and have never encountered any who believe this. However, that does not mean that I disagree with you on the fact that some Christians do believe that.
 

Wallydraigle

Banned
Nov 27, 2000
10,754
1
0


<< You said that all Christians who don't believe in the long ages believe that Satan or God put the bones there for a "test." >>




No I didn't. I just didn't go out of my way to include every possible permutation on the young earth belief. I understand where you're coming from. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 

xirtam

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2001
4,693
0
0


<< Where do fundamentalist Christians believe that the dinosaur bones came from in the first place if it wasn't from dinosaurs which lived millions of years ago? >>



Um... dinosaurs which lived more recently than millions of years ago? You're making the assumption that we know for a fact that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. We don't. That just seems to be the "going" guess, with the "evidence" made to fit the evolutionary model as I've stated before. At one point in time, we knew a whole bunch about this guy named Brontosaurus.
 

Wallydraigle

Banned
Nov 27, 2000
10,754
1
0
Well, okay, I guess I did assume that no one actually believed that the age of dinosaurs overlapped the age of humans. You got me there.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0


<< According to Christian, Jewish, and Muslim belief, the world went from nothing to its modern form with humans in seven days, right?

How do they explian things like dinosaurs and other evidence that life existed millions of years before humans came along?


Is that "seven days" just a figurative statement, and was really a few billion years because
God considers millions of years one day?
>>

First of all, you're wrong in assuming that dinosaurs existed millions of years before humans. If you're looking through Creationism, you have to believe that nothing was before God created the world.

Secondly, God makes an analogy to one day being equal to 1000 years, not millions. There is a debate in seminaries as to whether the 7-days is a literal 7-day or 7000 years.

now... go from here.

nik