Choosing components for a family freind's sound system - speaker selection help

[cirthix]

The friend already has a nice onkyo amp with 7.1chanels, optical inputs, and 65w/ch capability.

I'd like to set up a 7.1 system in his living room using wall-mount speakers and his existing amplifier.

He doesn't have a set budget for the speakers, but it is fairly large. I don't want him to spend money past what he can hear (ie, audiophile stuff), but he does want a nice system. This will be matched with a 55-60" lcd tv (i wouldn't mind tv recommendations either ).

The room measures around 20x30 feet.

Another (minor) catch: shipping to HI.

Thanks,
cirthix

 

[alcoholbob]

Not sure what "fairly" large means, since it's a different number for everyone.

The Paradigm Studio series and NHT Classic series are excellent mid-range speakers for home theater.

 

[Operandi]

I've been building DIY speakers for while now (proven designs not my own) and won't be going back to retail speakers ever.

A kit is a good way to get the performance and most of the value of a DIY design. Parts Express has some really nice Usher and Dayton kits both designed by industry pros and are very easy to assemble.

I would go with one these for the center.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-971

And 2 pair of these for L R and surround channels.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-961

 

[Rifter]

+1 for the PE kits, have built a few and they are better sounding than any retail speaker i have herd up to about 3-4x the price.

Also that Onkyo(or any 7.1 reciever for that matter) is not going to put out 65w a channel with all 7 driven, most recievers will put out only 20-35w a channel into all 7 even if they are rated at 100w per channel, they are usualy rated with only 2 channels driven and usualy rated not with music/movies and something with a small dynamic range(read easy to produce, gets better ratings).

For this reason if he wants to listen at anything above moderate volume and make sure to avoid clipping i would reccomend a good 3 channel amp(i would get one with a 200w a channel or so) for the L C R speakers, hopefully his reciever has pre outs so he can do this. The reciever would then have no trouble driving the surrounds.

My .02

 

[cirthix]

+1 for the PE kits, have built a few and they are better sounding than any retail speaker i have herd up to about 3-4x the price.

Also that Onkyo(or any 7.1 reciever for that matter) is not going to put out 65w a channel with all 7 driven, most recievers will put out only 20-35w a channel into all 7 even if they are rated at 100w per channel, they are usualy rated with only 2 channels driven and usualy rated not with music/movies and something with a small dynamic range(read easy to produce, gets better ratings).

For this reason if he wants to listen at anything above moderate volume and make sure to avoid clipping i would reccomend a good 3 channel amp(i would get one with a 200w a channel or so) for the L C R speakers, hopefully his reciever has pre outs so he can do this. The reciever would then have no trouble driving the surrounds.

My .02

Hmm, I'll have to look into that. Do you think his amplifier could do 5.1 with the parts express kits?

Kits at parts express were recommended by my brother too, so I'll pass the recommendation to the family friend.

 

[Operandi]

It depends on how loud he wants to get. For moderate volume it should be fine, if he wants to go louder then he probably should have gotten a bigger receiver.

I don't think the Onkyo will be too much of a limiting factor but regardless; if he goes with the Dayton kits he'll have good enough speakers that would be worthy of several amp upgrades.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

I would not worry too much about the Onkyo being able to meet its rated power. Onkyos come closer than other brands to meeting their rated power with all channels driven. See some of my discussion in this thread....

As an example, here is a test of the Onkyo TX-SR605. It is rated at 90WPC, but when all 7 channels were driven, could only reach 80WPC. As a comparison, the Sony STR-DG910, which was a reasonably direct competitor to the Onkyo 605 (both MSRP at $500 and both released in 2007), had these test results. The Sony 910 is rated at 100WPC. With 5 channels driven, it output a paltry 30WPC, and with only 1 channel driven at 8 ohms, it managed 84W.... still well below the rated 100W!

65WPC is lower than normal for most rooms, however. Just make sure the speakers are reasonably efficient.

 

[brainhulk]

i have B&W 805's powered by an Emotiva amp. Also Klipsch's powered by 805b tube amps. Both sound great and would highly recommend. But I always wanted try some Magneplanar Electrostatics which I hear are outstanding.

 

[Rifter]

I would not worry too much about the Onkyo being able to meet its rated power. Onkyos come closer than other brands to meeting their rated power with all channels driven. See some of my discussion in this thread....



65WPC is lower than normal for most rooms, however. Just make sure the speakers are reasonably efficient.

I agree the SR-605 is a great unit, however since he said 65WPC im thinking its one of the lowest end or even possible HTIB recievers from Onkyo, which are no where near the quality of the 605. And i also agree that for the most part Onkyo is one of the better companies for rating there units even though they usually only provide ratings with 2 channel driven, Harmon Kardon i think is still the most honest though when it comes to ratings.

I honestly think for a room that size though you should really look into a seperate amp for the front 3, Emotiva is a good choice as far as price/quality.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

I agree the SR-605 is a great unit, however since he said 65WPC im thinking its one of the lowest end or even possible HTIB recievers from Onkyo, which are no where near the quality of the 605. And i also agree that for the most part Onkyo is one of the better companies for rating there units even though they usually only provide ratings with 2 channel driven, Harmon Kardon i think is still the most honest though when it comes to ratings.

I honestly think for a room that size though you should really look into a seperate amp for the front 3, Emotiva is a good choice as far as price/quality.

The 308 is 65WPC. It's in the TX-SR line so I've got to give it the benefit of the doubt. Of course we don't know the actual model number, but I was assuming that it was in the standard Onkyo receiver line.

I didn't notice the room dimensions in the OP before. IMO it definitely calls for more than 65WPC. You're right, a separate 3-channel amp for the LCR would be in order, and then the receiver could have plenty of power for the rears.

 

[vi edit]

You really have to give a number for the budget. "Really large" doesn't mean anything. To me, really large is like $1500 for a set of mains. To others it's $15,000. And to others yet, it could be $150.

 

[alcoholbob]

^
For me it would be around $12k, so yes, I would never consider running them off of an entry-level receiver unless I was listening to them in an office setting.

 

[richardycc]

when you are choosing stuff for someone else, don't get internet only brands, no Bose, no DIY, stick with well known brand. you can thank me later.

 

[electroju]

For that large of room and the watts are low, I suggest speakers from PSB or Klipsch because of their efficiency. The subwoofer is going to be a problem because for that size, a DIY subwoofer is the best, but this can be a problem if you are new at this. I suggest subwoofers from Outlaw and Elemental Designs. For that size of room, I recommend two Outlaw The LFM-1 EX or two Elemental Designs A5-350.

Sure you could go for Infinity or Polk, but you actually paying for the technology that is put into their products instead of the actual speaker. When going for PSB and Klipsch, you are paying for the actual speaker. BOSE is the worst of all the brands because you are paying for the technology and not the actual speaker. I feel the PSB and Klipsch is reasonably price for their quality. If you are selecting PSB speakers, I suggest their Image series.

To know how much the actual wattage output for each channel for an AV receiver or any amplifier, look at the back of the unit where the AC is coming in. Some state the VA and others state the voltage and the current. The VA is what you want, but you have to use the voltage and current if it is not stated. To get the wattage for the amplifiers in AV receiver, take what the watts are consume and minus about 120 watts. This is just for the electronics or the processing. 120 watts is for powerful processors and about 60 watts for low power processors. Next take the number and divide by the amount of channels going to be used. Finally multiply them by 75 percent. Usually AV receivers uses Class-AB and they are roughly 75% efficient.

Do not forget to break the speakers in because new speakers will sound like crap. It may take up to two to four weeks to break them in. Good speakers will show them selves after the break-in period while crap speakers will just be bad.

If you are going for on-line buys, buy from an authorized dealer. I recommend Crutchfield.com because they are helpful for novices and they are an authorized dealer.

I suggest audio and speaker cable from Dayton Audio. They have the same performance as Monster Cable, but at a fraction of the price.

Do not use different metals for connecting cables because that is worst than having oxidation.

I suggest a DLP TV from Mitsubishi. DLP TV are better than LCD and better than plasmas.

 

[alcoholbob]

^
I have never heard of a Class A/B amplifier with 75% efficiency. Pioneer Elite SC-series use Class-D ICEPower amps and they have 75% efficiency. Most Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo amps are in the 45-55% efficiency category.