Choosing a dual-cpu system

[authenticate]

I am looking at buying a system capable of running dual-cpus but for the immediate future I only need the single cpu.
I have been considering the Dell Precision 220MT and for those of you not familiar with this model here are the specs:

PIII 866EB, 256Kb L2 cache, on-board 16-bit sound, integrated 10/100 3COM Fast Etherlink, 128Mb PC600 Non-Ecc RIMM, 32Mb Nvidia TNT2 M64 4x AGP, 20.4Gb Ultra ATA @7,200rpm, Windows 2000 Pro.

I am advised that the board uses the i820 chipset, runs a FSB of 133MHz and supports ATA-100.

Beginner's question:- Can anyone explain what PC600 means when used to describe RAM speed?

Alternatively, I could buy the parts and assemble myself like I have done with my current (single cpu) system. This way I could guarantee that I have the latest and greatest parts but compatibility would be questionable (and construction too I hear you say).

Can anyone advise me if the Dell has built-in restrictions that could hinder its further upgradability?

 

[Windogg]

Ugh... PC600 Rambus is a joke. It means the memory is running at 600Mhz (300Mhz double pumped) but due to Rambus' 16bit transfer rate, you get less performance than PC133 SDRAM at 50% more cost. If you do opt for a Rambus/i820 system, at least get PC800 which brings it on par with PC133. Also be advised that the TNT2 M64 is the crippled version of the TNT2 and probably performs on par with the original TNT due to it's lower bandwidth and slower memory.

What are you planning on doing with the dual processor system? Most applications do not support SMP so the second CPU will just be there heating up the case. If you get one CPU now and plan on getting a second later, make sure the new CPU is "matched" meaning it has the same stepping code and the same S-Spec code to ensure compatibility.

I usually like Dell systems but the Precisions are a ripoff IMHO.

Windogg

 

[Vegito]

I find it easy and hard to upgrade dell parts. As long as there is BIOS upgrade that lets you use the latest processor, it'll work.. ie.. Dell Precision 410, fastest CPU @ 100fsb is 8.5x100 FCPGA. Doesn't like slockets, BIOS supports up to 800Mhz, the 850 doesn't boot. I had to get a pair of slot1 800s

 

[authenticate]

Thanks for your info. it is quite revealing. It makes me wonder why Dell goes out on a limb with systems that seem to be leading edge but have big fallbacks.

 

[Dulanic]

Because its Dell. I hate Dell, Compaq, IBM, anything.... Only decent ones IMO are Falcon, Alienware, and Micron.

 

[Vegito]

I checked...

Dell high-end workstations are all on Rambus

so is micron,

any high end DUAL 133 FSBs are Rambus systems.

even gateway

It was very hard getting dual 133 systems.

 

[Kwad Guy]

Here's a great deal on a starter dual system:

Onvia has the Compaq ML350 P3-600 dual server for $654 shipped.
The configuration they're selling doesn't include a hard drive, but
includes Ultra2 wide SCSI on board and HOT-SWAPABLE SCSI drive
bays. (You can also use a standard IDE drive on the IDE channel).
It also has a couple of 64 bit PCI slots, etc. Comes with 128Mb
of registered memory. Oh, they configuration they're selling
comes with only one of the two processors, but obviously you can
include another. The motherboard in this server runs at
133Mhz! This is a steal. Downside: Currently listed as "out of
stock" (it was in stock yesterday, supposedly). If you are adverse
to rolling ur own, this is the way I'd go.

Here's the link

If you want to put together a dual system from parts (much cheaper),
then you can start with the Tyan Tiger 133 motherboard. This
provides 133Mhz FSB support and uses standard SDRAM. Note, however,
that this board isn't a particularly stellar performer. Tests
indicate it isn't really any better than the dual Tyan Tiger 100
(100Mhz FSB) board. The difference is that the Tiger 100 is based
on the tried, true and great (for what it is) BX chipset, and the
133 is not.

At any rate, the Tiger 133 can be purchased for < $150, and will
lay the foundation for a dual 133 NON rambus system, if that's what
you're looking for.

Kwad

 

[seewhy]

I remember Dell sells Dual CPU system based on ServerWork LE chipsets. The chipset use PC133 SDRAM and is pretty much the industry standard now for Dual CPU system using 133 FSB. I don't remember which issue, but a recent PC magazine actually did a review on Dell, HP, Compaq and other servers based on ServerWork LE chipset, and I believe all these are better option compare to the i820/i840 chipset because you can take advantage of low memory price now and get bunch of memory.

One thing about Dell server if you want to add another CPU later. I belive you have to do the upgrade via Dell service center or else you would void the warranty. But they charge you very high price for the upgrade, which can be done easily. So it really depends on how comfortable you are with building a system. If you have experience building a system, I recommend that you build one yourself around Serverwork chipset. If you don't, get a Dell server based on ServerWork LE chipset, but prepare to pay for it if you want to do the upgrade.

 

[Kwad Guy]

The Compaq ML350 that I mentioned in my posting above uses
the ServerWorks motherboard. The motherboard alone will cost you
around $500 or so, so the entire computer (- hard drives) for $650
is quite a deal. Again, I don't think you can beat the ML350
for $650 if you aren't adverse to putting the finishing touches
on yourself (that is, add the hard drive, add the second processor,
install an operating system).

If you require a turnkey solution, you're gonna be stuck with Dell
and their high prices.

Kwad

 

[Windogg]

ServerWorks makes excellent chipsets. I highly recommend them. Sure you pay a little more in the beginning but the cost is well worth it. One cavet it that many Serverworks board will only accept Registered SDRAM.

Windogg

 

[Radboy]

See here &amp; here. IMHO, this is the best option for SMP mobo .. but I don't think it's hit the market yet.

 

[Vegito]

I saw that some server work does not have AGP.. since I'm using these guy as a game machine also.. want that AGP video..

 

[Radboy]

Board linked above has AGP. Look under 'I/O Expansion Slots' .. where it says 'One 2X AGP Pro'.

That what you meant?

 

[Vegito]

Damn, that board is MINE, forget the CUSL2-c i'm getting, getting rid of these 2 week old CUSL2 also... put two of my 850 in and the 2 gigs of pc133 i have.. sweet... onboard scsi and it's only 650.. thats dirt cheap with agp...

This board is frecken sweet.. dual atx power, everything i want... man.. this is once kick ass board..

 

[Lore]

forcesho:

If you get one of the rack-mount type machines (pre-built) then it most likely won't include AGP video because they're meant for servers and servers don't generally need AGP video. Therefore, look for a board designed for workstations that uses the Serverworks chipset. I have the Tyan Thunder 2500 board with the ServerWorks ServerSet III HE chipset.

Edit: Oh, one thing - Many benchmarks have shown that the ServerWorks boards, albeit only with AGP2x/Pro, actually perform better than those Intel/Via boards with AGP4x.

 

[Lore]

Ooh, I especially like how the Supermicro 370DE6 has dual BIOS chips for flash recovery...

could have proven useful when I screwed up my Tyan Thunder 2500s flash.

 

[authenticate]

Windogg,
I thought that I would try to build some &quot;future-proof-ness&quot; into my new system hence the dual-cpu idea. When my system starts to seem like it's falling behind then I just add a second cpu (provided it's still for sale).
I do intend to use it for DV editing but mostly I will use it for internet research and gaming. I am familiar with NT4 as I use it at work so moving to W2K is no great shakes. Ofcourse W98 is what I run at home.
If you have any better suggestions I would like to hear it however critical they may seem.

 

[Vegito]

I have 4 dual 500 being upgraded into 800 p3s rack mounted servers.. all of them have onboard ATI crap and no agp slot...

I'm looking foward to a massive upgrade..

 

[Kwad Guy]

I thought it was worth bringing this discussion back to the top
because if you act VERY QUICKLY you can get what I think is
the hottest deal on a Dual CPU setup currently available.

Compaq is closing out their base level ML350 SCSI hot-swap
server. This is based on the ServerWorks 133Mhz bus dual processor
board with on-board SCSI. The ML350 comes with a hot-swap backplane,
so you can use hot SCSI drives to go with that fast motherboard.

Anyway, MicroWarehouse has a *FEW* of these for $699 in stock.
Once these sell out, I suspect you may not see them again at that
price (or at all). These are PIII 600Mhz systems without a hard
drive (but with a CD-rom, 128Mb of ram, etc). The motherboard
alone is worth $400-500!

Just FYI.

Kwad