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Choose a sports car

DVad3r

DVad3r

Diamond Member
So looking at some new cars coming out, Im pretty excited and all of them look amazing.

Here are some cars that look hawt.

Lexus IS F
Nissan GT-R
Corvette
M3 Sedan
Shelby Mustang

Most of these are around similar price ranges, what are your thoughts on these cars? The V8 Lexus looks pretty fat, I love the exhaust!
 
ISF, I'm sure someone wil chime in about how the quad exhausts are fake and it's automatic only and it's overpriced compared to the elite german M3 and everything but I like it. It's got 100ms shifts, which rival and beat the quickest DSGs, an excellent platform, a very smooth and refined engine and a very well trimmed interior. It's not a direct rival to the M3 though imo, it's a little easier to live with and not as quick, it's like 90-95% of an M3, less sporty, much more luxurious and fills a slightly different niche. Also, lexus has been the most reliable brand 13 of the last 14 years or something like that so it's 1 car I won't have to worry bout after the warranty expires.

GTR, impressive stats but butt fugly. he R32,33,34 looked good, the GTR is a disaster. Also, untunable without a full remap, I remember it being reported that intakes are impossible to fit because the ECU goes haywire with a new one.

Corvette, the only "real" sports car on the list IMO. 2 seater, lighter by at least 400lbs compared to ever other car here, RWD, V8, incredible performance numbers even in base trim and Z06 will rival or outclass horribly every car in this list including giving the GTR a run for it's money. Also, very easy to tune and relies on imple but proven technology to not only get a job done. It manages to K.I.S.S.(Keep it simple stupid) while beating world class supercars with much more technowizardry. There's something to be said about a car you can still mod and work on in your garage, with a wide array of modifications available. Also, actually looks good.

M3, Good car, bangle front end is pretty bad, notably the droopy, saggy, melting in the sun center intake. Cant argue with the performance though and a great sport sedan.

Shelby Mustang, doesnt belong here, more of a grand tourer than a sports car. Weighs more than most minivans and lots of SUVs, has the most power and yet the slowest acceleration times, worst slalom speeds, low rent interior. The Mustang GT is an excellent value. The GT500, not so much.

Depending on price, I'd go Corvette or Corvette Z06. I dont need a 2+2 or 5 seater sine I dont have kids (yet) and I like the performance numbers.
 
Originally posted by: DVad3r
So looking at some new cars coming out, Im pretty excited and all of them look amazing.

Here are some cars that look hawt.

Lexus IS F
Nissan GT-R
Corvette
M3 Sedan
Shelby Mustang

Most of these are around similar price ranges, what are your thoughts on these cars? The V8 Lexus looks pretty fat, I love the exhaust!
Click to expand...

Nissan GT-R or the M3 Sedan IMO.
 
Since you said they are all in the same price range and you mentioned corvette, it must be a Z06. If I had the money for that I would get it. The only competition for it on your list is the GT-R and hell, it still isn't in the hands of average joe yet here in the states.
 
ISF
GTR
Corvette

Screw the other two. Not that I wouldn't mind driving them if given to me 😀

The truth is, you know the GTR is gonna be very hard to get if not marked up by insane amounts. The reports show anywhere from 20k - 50k above MSRP right now. I don't know the costs of the other cars in comparison, but this might actually make it cost more than the rest. Not to mention, someone posted a scan of the manual where its bad to mod it, and its illegal (it was in Japanese with funny little drawings).
 
Originally posted by: mwmorph

Shelby Mustang, doesnt belong here, more of a grand tourer than a sports car. Weighs more than most minivans and lots of SUVs, has the most power and yet the slowest acceleration times, worst slalom speeds, low rent interior. The Mustang GT is an excellent value. The GT500, not so much.
Click to expand...

that's my complaint with the mustang as well. i guess that is what happens when the mustang is both the second cheapest and the by far most expensive car on the lot (add in trucks and not so much).

the G8 supposedly gets it right, and for about the same amount of money as a GT. but then, the G8 isn't available with a drop top and has a couple extra doors.



edit: and for the OP, there are too many GT cars on that list. in fact, of those only the vette says 'sports car' to me.
 
That list is all over the place.

It comes down to what do you want to do with your car? The GT-R is the obvious performance leader, but it's also hugely expensive (unless you compare it against 911 GT3/etc). You can find a base Vette that will be 90% as good for ~40k if you are patient.

IS-F = pricey, probably not up to the challenge of hanging with a Vette/M3/etc.
M3 = spectacular car, but more of a pocket luxury cruiser than a pure sports car. Still trades blows pretty evenly with a base Vette.
Mustang = heavy, terrible handling characteristics, makes a great noise. Doesn't belong on this list whatsoever.

Best bargain for a Sports car would be to grab a low-miles C5, and pocket the change for whatever. The C5 is nearly as good as the awesome C6, and you can find them in pretty much mint condition for ~$20k. The greatest single thing about a Vette is that if you hold onto it long enough, and take good care of it, you'll have something valuable on your hands. Can't say that about many cars. ZV probably has a scoop on bargain Porsche sports cars, I'm a 928S4 fan, but AFAIK, you'd better know what you're doing before you jump into a used Porsche. Maintenance-wise, it's very easy to find parts/service for a Vette, but a bit more challenging with Porsches.
 
Originally posted by: Arkaign
ZV probably has a scoop on bargain Porsche sports cars, I'm a 928S4 fan, but AFAIK, you'd better know what you're doing before you jump into a used Porsche. Maintenance-wise, it's very easy to find parts/service for a Vette, but a bit more challenging with Porsches.
Click to expand...

My experience with old Porsches: Flat reliable but you damn well better follow the maintenance requirements EXACTLY or it does very expensive bad things very quickly. They are also not built with ease of servicing in mind, so it can take forever to do what should be simple work. Also, they take huge amounts of oil. My 951, a little 2.5 litre 4-cylinder, needs 7 quarts of oil. The last time I was buying oil the clerk thought I owned a diesel pickup. For comparison, a 5.7 litre Chevrolet V8 takes 5 quarts of oil.

In general, buying an old Porsche involves spending at least $2,000 to fix everything that the previous owner screwed up or just let get old and worn, then just keeping up with maintenance, bearing in mind that an old car will require things like water pumps and break lines as part of normal maintenance.

ZV
 
Originally posted by: mwmorph
ISF, I'm sure someone wil chime in about how the quad exhausts are fake and it's automatic only and it's overpriced compared to the elite german M3 and everything but I like it. It's got 100ms shifts, which rival and beat the quickest DSGs, an excellent platform, a very smooth and refined engine and a very well trimmed interior. It's not a direct rival to the M3 though imo, it's a little easier to live with and not as quick, it's like 90-95% of an M3, less sporty, much more luxurious and fills a slightly different niche. Also, lexus has been the most reliable brand 13 of the last 14 years or something like that so it's 1 car I won't have to worry bout after the warranty expires.

GTR, impressive stats but butt fugly. he R32,33,34 looked good, the GTR is a disaster. Also, untunable without a full remap, I remember it being reported that intakes are impossible to fit because the ECU goes haywire with a new one.

Corvette, the only "real" sports car on the list IMO. 2 seater, lighter by at least 400lbs compared to ever other car here, RWD, V8, incredible performance numbers even in base trim and Z06 will rival or outclass horribly every car in this list including giving the GTR a run for it's money. Also, very easy to tune and relies on imple but proven technology to not only get a job done. It manages to K.I.S.S.(Keep it simple stupid) while beating world class supercars with much more technowizardry. There's something to be said about a car you can still mod and work on in your garage, with a wide array of modifications available. Also, actually looks good.

M3, Good car, bangle front end is pretty bad, notably the droopy, saggy, melting in the sun center intake. Cant argue with the performance though and a great sport sedan.

Shelby Mustang, doesnt belong here, more of a grand tourer than a sports car. Weighs more than most minivans and lots of SUVs, has the most power and yet the slowest acceleration times, worst slalom speeds, low rent interior. The Mustang GT is an excellent value. The GT500, not so much.

Depending on price, I'd go Corvette or Corvette Z06. I dont need a 2+2 or 5 seater sine I dont have kids (yet) and I like the performance numbers.
Click to expand...

The quad exhausts are fake? How so? Im not aruging I just really havent read up on anything, any links? I personally own a Lexus and I love the car, Im pretty happy to see a semi sports performance sedan from them. With a 170 MPH top track speed this car is german autobahn worthy. I don't think the M3 outclasses it by much, and even if it does M3 has decades of experience behind its back compared to something that is just starting out.

The GT-R looks impressive and I agree the R32/33/34 looked way better, and I agree with most poeple here it probably is over priced, what is it like close to 90 k?

Id love to see the new vette coming out with the supercharger v8, is that the 2009? I think if I wanted pure sports performance Id go with a vette it can't be beat for the money, and if I wanted some luxury probably an M3 or IS F.

Interesting feedback about the mustang shelby, again I havent read up much on it but is it really that bad? Weighs more then an SUV?

 
Originally posted by: DVad3r
Originally posted by: mwmorph
ISF, I'm sure someone wil chime in about how the quad exhausts are fake and it's automatic only and it's overpriced compared to the elite german M3 and everything but I like it. It's got 100ms shifts, which rival and beat the quickest DSGs, an excellent platform, a very smooth and refined engine and a very well trimmed interior. It's not a direct rival to the M3 though imo, it's a little easier to live with and not as quick, it's like 90-95% of an M3, less sporty, much more luxurious and fills a slightly different niche. Also, lexus has been the most reliable brand 13 of the last 14 years or something like that so it's 1 car I won't have to worry bout after the warranty expires.

GTR, impressive stats but butt fugly. he R32,33,34 looked good, the GTR is a disaster. Also, untunable without a full remap, I remember it being reported that intakes are impossible to fit because the ECU goes haywire with a new one.

Corvette, the only "real" sports car on the list IMO. 2 seater, lighter by at least 400lbs compared to ever other car here, RWD, V8, incredible performance numbers even in base trim and Z06 will rival or outclass horribly every car in this list including giving the GTR a run for it's money. Also, very easy to tune and relies on imple but proven technology to not only get a job done. It manages to K.I.S.S.(Keep it simple stupid) while beating world class supercars with much more technowizardry. There's something to be said about a car you can still mod and work on in your garage, with a wide array of modifications available. Also, actually looks good.

M3, Good car, bangle front end is pretty bad, notably the droopy, saggy, melting in the sun center intake. Cant argue with the performance though and a great sport sedan.

Shelby Mustang, doesnt belong here, more of a grand tourer than a sports car. Weighs more than most minivans and lots of SUVs, has the most power and yet the slowest acceleration times, worst slalom speeds, low rent interior. The Mustang GT is an excellent value. The GT500, not so much.

Depending on price, I'd go Corvette or Corvette Z06. I dont need a 2+2 or 5 seater sine I dont have kids (yet) and I like the performance numbers.
Click to expand...

The quad exhausts are fake? How so? Im not aruging I just really havent read up on anything, any links? I personally own a Lexus and I love the car, Im pretty happy to see a semi sports performance sedan from them. With a 170 MPH top track speed this car is german autobahn worthy. I don't think the M3 outclasses it by much, and even if it does M3 has decades of experience behind its back compared to something that is just starting out.

The GT-R looks impressive and I agree the R32/33/34 looked way better, and I agree with most poeple here it probably is over priced, what is it like close to 90 k?

Id love to see the new vette coming out with the supercharger v8, is that the 2009? I think if I wanted pure sports performance Id go with a vette it can't be beat for the money, and if I wanted some luxury probably an M3 or IS F.

Interesting feedback about the mustang shelby, again I havent read up much on it but is it really that bad? Weighs more then an SUV?
Click to expand...

there you go

Lexus claims they are resonators.
 
Nissan GT-R or 911 Carrera S (more practical than a GT3). Both docile enough to be daily drivers, but with ample performance reserves when needed.
 
Originally posted by: DVad3r
Originally posted by: mwmorph
ISF, I'm sure someone wil chime in about how the quad exhausts are fake and it's automatic only and it's overpriced compared to the elite german M3 and everything but I like it. It's got 100ms shifts, which rival and beat the quickest DSGs, an excellent platform, a very smooth and refined engine and a very well trimmed interior. It's not a direct rival to the M3 though imo, it's a little easier to live with and not as quick, it's like 90-95% of an M3, less sporty, much more luxurious and fills a slightly different niche. Also, lexus has been the most reliable brand 13 of the last 14 years or something like that so it's 1 car I won't have to worry bout after the warranty expires.

GTR, impressive stats but butt fugly. he R32,33,34 looked good, the GTR is a disaster. Also, untunable without a full remap, I remember it being reported that intakes are impossible to fit because the ECU goes haywire with a new one.

Corvette, the only "real" sports car on the list IMO. 2 seater, lighter by at least 400lbs compared to ever other car here, RWD, V8, incredible performance numbers even in base trim and Z06 will rival or outclass horribly every car in this list including giving the GTR a run for it's money. Also, very easy to tune and relies on imple but proven technology to not only get a job done. It manages to K.I.S.S.(Keep it simple stupid) while beating world class supercars with much more technowizardry. There's something to be said about a car you can still mod and work on in your garage, with a wide array of modifications available. Also, actually looks good.

M3, Good car, bangle front end is pretty bad, notably the droopy, saggy, melting in the sun center intake. Cant argue with the performance though and a great sport sedan.

Shelby Mustang, doesnt belong here, more of a grand tourer than a sports car. Weighs more than most minivans and lots of SUVs, has the most power and yet the slowest acceleration times, worst slalom speeds, low rent interior. The Mustang GT is an excellent value. The GT500, not so much.

Depending on price, I'd go Corvette or Corvette Z06. I dont need a 2+2 or 5 seater sine I dont have kids (yet) and I like the performance numbers.
Click to expand...

The quad exhausts are fake? How so? Im not aruging I just really havent read up on anything, any links? I personally own a Lexus and I love the car, Im pretty happy to see a semi sports performance sedan from them. With a 170 MPH top track speed this car is german autobahn worthy. I don't think the M3 outclasses it by much, and even if it does M3 has decades of experience behind its back compared to something that is just starting out.

The GT-R looks impressive and I agree the R32/33/34 looked way better, and I agree with most poeple here it probably is over priced, what is it like close to 90 k?

Id love to see the new vette coming out with the supercharger v8, is that the 2009? I think if I wanted pure sports performance Id go with a vette it can't be beat for the money, and if I wanted some luxury probably an M3 or IS F.

Interesting feedback about the mustang shelby, again I havent read up much on it but is it really that bad? Weighs more then an SUV?
Click to expand...

Road and Track measured it 0.1s slower to 60mph than the M3 and marginally slower in the slolam. It's a great car but if you want pure performance, the M3 is king. The ISF is slightly different.

The GTR will be I believe mid 70K. without the dealer markups, with the dealer markups currently, $100K would be a good price. It also has no potential for upgrades, it's incredibly hard to mod and upgrade

The ZR1 will have 650hp, but also be $100+K, out of the range of these $60K cars. I expect it to dominate when it arrives.

The Mustang Shelby is 3920lbs in coupe form and 4040 in convertible. My parents used to have a 2000 Mazda MPV 7 passenger V6 minivan. It weighed 3700lbs. MY friend has a 1995 Nissan Pathfinder. IT weighs around 3700lbs.

The Mustang has 500hp and 530ft/lbs of tourqe and doe 4.5s 0-60 and 12.7 in the 1/4 mile. The Corvette Z06 has 505hp and 475ft/lbs of orque doe 0-60 in 3.6 and the 1/4 mile in 11.6s.
 
it's funny to say the BMW is a bargain here but it is. excellent overall package and under $60k. not as fast as the corvette or GT-R but then the M3 should be the most refined car of the bunch.
 

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Click to expand...



The GTR will be I believe mid 70K. without the dealer markups, with the dealer markups currently, $100K would be a good price. It also has no potential for upgrades, it's incredibly hard to mod and upgrade

[/quote]

^^^

I think that's going to be absolutely true for the backyard/home garage tuner.

I fully expect, however, to see a lot of mods for that car, albeit very expensive ones from very high-end groups. I'd be surprised not to see the usual suspects from the R34 days to have parts and expertise available. After all, although the GT-R is complicated, it's just a car, granted it will take time to figure out the ECU, various security protocols in the software, various sensors/diagnostics for the different systems, and so on.

Mine's?

 
Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Click to expand...



The GTR will be I believe mid 70K. without the dealer markups, with the dealer markups currently, $100K would be a good price. It also has no potential for upgrades, it's incredibly hard to mod and upgrade
Click to expand...

^^^

I think that's going to be absolutely true for the backyard/home garage tuner.

I fully expect, however, to see a lot of mods for that car, albeit very expensive ones from very high-end groups. I'd be surprised not to see the usual suspects from the R34 days to have parts and expertise available. After all, although the GT-R is complicated, it's just a car, granted it will take time to figure out the ECU, various security protocols in the software, various sensors/diagnostics for the different systems, and so on.

Mine's?

[/quote]Well here's the article I was referring to
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0...unapproved-race-track/
Motor Trend's Scott Kanemura sat down with Michizio Niikura, the president of MINE'S Motor Sports, the first aftermarket firm to get its hands on the new Nissan GT-R. The conversation centered on the roadblocks Nissan has put in place to stymie high speeds and limit modifications to the GT-R...

...if the GT-R is driven with aftermarket rims, an error code is thrown on the dash. And although MINE'S has fitted a custom exhaust to their shop car, they've found that any modification to the intake system causes the ECU to go haywire.
Click to expand...

It's all nice and well that the GT-R is an excellent car stock and I'm sure given the time, someone will be able to mod it into a higher performance machine, but if it's out of reach of me and you, why do I care? If it's a $30K turbo upgrade or $10K coilover set, doesn't the value it makes for itself go away?

Stock for stock, it's awesome, but then the Z06 comes in to spoil the party, with such a large aftermarket available at such an affordable price without factory imposed restrictions.

A little OT, but the ZR1 is going to be a beast
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0...ils-of-zr1-ls9-engine/
 
Oh yeah, the ZR1 is going to be absolutely nuts. Kudos to Chevy for building the ultimate American Supercar. I think the Ford GT and the new Shelby sort of missed the mark a bit.

On the GT-R, give it a little time. Of course, it's so rare and $$$ that we'll probably be lucky to see a handful in person during our lifetimes (a lot like the Carrera GT, Ferrari 612, and so on). As far as the stock ECU, all that needs to be done is for a talented team to download the current one, analyze it, and then reverse-engineer an unlocked custom version. Stock ECUs are notoriously bitchy about mods. Even I suffer, with my cheapo 2008 Focus S. I can't use custom intakes for some weird reason (it's explained over at Focusfanatics.com), because the new ECU doesn't cooperate with them. We're anxiously awaiting a Tom's tune or Focussport ECU for the '08 to arrive, so that we can get it to properly use the aftermarket intakes that can already be physically mounted in.

The GT-R is a banner vehicle for the industry, a showcase of technology that seems to almost bend the laws of physics. It's shocking and surprising that such a heavy vehicle is so nimble and downright fast. An overlooked factor is the AWD aspect, I think it really contributes to it's upward realm of performance mods. AFAIK, it's one of the few world-class cars that uses AWD, and reminds me of the Porsche 959's debut in the mid-80s. I'm guessing that the platform would be able to easily utilize 800-900hp and still be a trackworthy car.

I love the monster modded Vettes and Vipers, I'm particularly blown away by the incredible 8.75 1600HP Viper (Gary Javo vid, easy to find). Though I think with the ZR-1, and similarly psycho-powered RWD beasts, that there is a bit of a limit to how much power you can lay down with streetable tires/wheels. You either put big fat slicks on the back and tighten everything up to blast to those ~10-second quarters, or you have road/track tire setup that performs nicely on circuits, but is helpless to connect that power to the ground in a drag situation. Most Z06 drivers seem to have a tremendously difficult time getting decent 1/4s out of the stock tires, but those same drivers can get decent slicks and cut a second or two off their times. With the ZR-1, it's probably going to be even more pronounced. Thus, I think AWD really has a place for cars aiming to put down serious power on either drag or circuit conditions. The GT-R is truly the baby Veyron, and it's possible that with a ~1000hp version, that it could match the performance, though I seriously doubt that the stability would be acceptable for runs much above 210mph. That Shelby SSC Ultimate Aero is somewhat of a joke to me, because it was so damned tricky to get to hit it's record run. They had to use a highly expert driver, and had to abandon several tries because of tire-spin and other serious stability issues at 200+. Contrast that to the Veyron, which was a snap for "Captain Slow" to hit 250+ in, though he is a host on a car show, he is an amateur driver nonetheless. He was able to both drive the car and narrate for the audience without any drama at all.

Meh, going in circles here. I think the OP needs to figure out his budget, and what he wants, that would really help us figure out a solution for him. Without any further data, I don't think a better deal than a stock C6 or used C5 for mods can be found in the sports car world. But if he wants more luxury, has higher/lower budget, etc/etc, then that will obviously give shed more light on what the options could/should be.
 
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