Chiropractice is pure BS... how did everyone buy into this?

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GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,998
126
As with all professions, you're going to have people that are legit and you'll have the people who aren't.

No you're not. A psychic is a hoax no matter what. A water dowser is a hoax no matter what. Spiritualists will always be a hoax no matter what. Homeopathy, Phrenology, reflexology, reiki, naturopathy, feng shui, applied kinesiology, metoscopy and alchemy are not legit no matter who is practicing them. At this point there's no reason to believe chiropractors are any different. Every single shred of research ever done on it shoves it farther down the path to pseudoscience.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,672
136
Jeezus...after I totally FUBAR'D my back, and with the ACL graft surgery, they gave me vicodin/Norco, oxycontin, and Valium by the 5 gallon bucket full...I took what I HAD to take but stopped once I could stand the pain, refilled the scripts for about 2 years...because work comp required me to do so...ended up with a 55 gallon barrel full of the shit. (OK, I exaggerate...slightly, but not by much)

No idea what the "street value" of the accumulation would be...but I could probably retire.

oh wait...I'm ALREADY retired. never mind.

Ahh the good old days...
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,560
14,961
146
No you're not. A psychic is a hoax no matter what. A water dowser is a hoax no matter what. Spiritualists will always be a hoax no matter what. Homeopathy, Phrenology, reflexology, reiki, naturopathy, feng shui, applied kinesiology, metoscopy and alchemy are not legit no matter who is practicing them. At this point there's no reason to believe chiropractors are any different. Every single shred of research ever done on it shoves it farther down the path to pseudoscience.


Except dowsing is NOT a hoax. Not everyone has the knack...so it seems like a hoax, but I worked with a guy who did it (irrigation district) and he never missed. How does it work? No fucking idea, but it does...for some people.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
9,442
8,853
136
And what do they call the med student that graduated at the very bottom of the class, and is about to cut your open?

Yea, they call him "doctor".
 
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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,930
4,991
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No you're not. A psychic is a hoax no matter what. A water dowser is a hoax no matter what. Spiritualists will always be a hoax no matter what. Homeopathy, Phrenology, reflexology, reiki, naturopathy, feng shui, applied kinesiology, metoscopy and alchemy are not legit no matter who is practicing them. At this point there's no reason to believe chiropractors are any different. Every single shred of research ever done on it shoves it farther down the path to pseudoscience.
I would rather say that this shows our lack of understanding and knowledge of world, if there is evidence for Heomeopathy, for example, and not being able to explain why is it happening.

In 2010 there has been huge Homeopathy experiment, with Homeopathical Vaccine delivered to 2.3 Million people over Cuba. It was done in cooperation with World Health Organization.

For every person claiming that Homeopathy and Chiropractice is hoax there will be equal amount of physical proofs of them working, in real world. Not being able to explain them, and rejecting the results - shows rather credibility of the scientists, instead of the topic, being non-scientific.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,560
14,961
146
And what do they call the med student that graduated at the very bottom of the class, and is about to cut your open?

Yea, they call him "doctor".

Odds are, the guy who finished at the bottom of the class never made it into surgery...but instead, works for the VA.
 
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GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,998
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Except dowsing is NOT a hoax. Not everyone has the knack...so it seems like a hoax, but I worked with a guy who did it (irrigation district) and he never missed. How does it work? No fucking idea, but it does...for some people.

It works appears to work because ANYWHERE you dig you find water if you dig deep enough. In reality dowsers are no more accurate than a blind epileptic chimp tossing a lawn dart to determine where water is.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,998
126
I would rather say that this shows our lack of understanding and knowledge of world, if there is evidence for Heomeopathy, for example, and not being able to explain why is it happening.

In 2010 there has been huge Homeopathy experiment, with Homeopathical Vaccine delivered to 2.3 Million people over Cuba. It was done in cooperation with World Health Organization.

For every person claiming that Homeopathy and Chiropractice is hoax there will be equal amount of physical proofs of them working, in real world. Not being able to explain them, and rejecting the results - shows rather credibility of the scientists, instead of the topic, being non-scientific.

Bullshit. Link to a single legit double blind study where homeopathy was shown to be anything other than a scam.
 
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BD231

Lifer
Feb 26, 2001
10,568
138
106
It works appears to work because ANYWHERE you dig you find water if you dig deep enough. In reality dowsers are no more accurate than a blind epileptic chimp tossing a lawn dart to determine where water is.

Lets crash a truck into another truck then open fire, perhaps then we will strike water together :cool:
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
My knee and back pain go away every time I can make it into the gym for a round or two of sparring. So there is sufficient evidence that punching me in the face cures my knee and back pain.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,998
126
My knee and back pain go away every time I can make it into the gym for a round or two of sparring. So there is sufficient evidence that punching me in the face cures my knee and back pain.

It's the same reason you never have a toothache when your leg is caught in a bear trap.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,560
14,961
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It works appears to work because ANYWHERE you dig you find water if you dig deep enough. In reality dowsers are no more accurate than a blind epileptic chimp tossing a lawn dart to determine where water is.

Except that this guy would find unmarked buried water lines, leaks in underground pipelines, etc.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,930
4,991
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Bullshit. Link to a single legit double blind study where homeopathy was shown to be anything other than a scam.
There is, and never will be such thing, in standard procedures. Every "scientific" experiment is done this way: use the same substance over high enough amount of Experimental patients, and look what happens with them, or to them.

With homeopathy its impossible.

Every Homeopathical treatment has to be specifically developed for patient with certain problem. And everything has to be taken into account: diet of the patient, environment in which patient lives, he grew up in, what his/her belief systems are, what are his/her family belief systems are, etc. One cure for one patient will not work for the other patient.

This is one way at looking at Homeo, and problem with scientific proofing it works, or not. Second one involves the question whether the amount of active substance is significant enough to do any difference in human organism. The other part of this equation is also interesting. If Small amounts, insignificant, as scientists would say, of active substance have any effect on human organism, are small, insignificant amounts of Radioactive pollution, toxins in water, etc, significant enough to cause harm to the organisms. The answer to those questions is complicated. Involves unproven theory currently about environment of the substance having higher impact, on organism than the actual substance itself.

If you look at homeopathy solely from this point of view - yes it will be a hoax. But what about the data, of the EFFECTS that Homeopathy has on human health?

Luc Montagnier, Nobel Prize winner for discovering AIDS in 2008 has conducted several experiments about "Water Memory" and the ability of water to imprint specific properties of specific substance. The problem is explaining this. We do not know, and nobody so far has discovered why water can transmit properties of substances, and cure human organisms, if the specific cure is instilled into water.


All I can give you is numbers.

In 2007 in Cuba there has been done experiment on 11 million people, for Leptospirosis epidemic.

8.8 Million people have not been vaccinated, while 2.3 Million in similar region have been treated with homeopathic vaccine. In 2008, there has been discovered 22% increase in infections, in the 8.8 million people group, that has not been treated with any cure, or vaccine.

In 2.3 Million people group, that has been treated with Homeopathic Vaccine, or cure next year, in 2008, there has been 84% decrease in infections.

Before we will jump to conclusions about anything, I suggest we should wait for better understanding of nature, and human body.

I am not saying that Homeopathy is not a Hoax. I just do not understand it, but I do understand numbers, and case studies. Not everything can be as easily explained as you would want to believe.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,998
126
There is, and never will be such thing, in standard procedures. Every "scientific" experiment is done this way: use the same substance over high enough amount of Experimental patients, and look what happens with them, or to them.

With homeopathy its impossible.



I am not saying that Homeopathy is not a Hoax. I just do not understand it, but I do understand numbers, and case studies.

1) It's not impossible.
2) You clearly DON'T understand numbers.

While homeopathy is not an ideal candidate for double blind studies in SOME cases it is in others and in those cases it fails 100% of the time. No difference from placebo. And in cases where true DB studies are not possible random control studies are possible and in every legit study of those cases homeopathy is also batting a big goose egg. Hundreds of years of tests and it has NEVER EVER EVER outperformed a placebo on any legit test.Never. Not once. THAT is a number you should be able to understand.

Now as to the supposed trials you repeatedly cite from Cuba, please link to the scientific methods and controls used and who it was conducting the tests and what their bias might be. It's funny that a legit test with supposedly 11 million case studies has completely escaped the attention of the legitimate scientific community. I can claim that 50 trillion people in Burkina Faso have been cured of ALS by beer therapy, but only an idiot would believe that claim without proof.
 
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GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,998
126
Except that this guy would find unmarked buried water lines, leaks in underground pipelines, etc.

And yet like homeopathy water dowsing has failed 100% of the time under controlled testing. But yeah, that guy was special. You can fool a 2 year old with the "got your nose" trick, but that's not science. It's the observer being easily fooled. Some people are really really easy to fool, even if they're not 2 years old and should know better.
 
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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,930
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1) It's not impossible.
2) You clearly DON'T understand numbers.

While homeopathy is not an ideal candidate for double blind studies in SOME cases it is in others and in those cases it fails 100% of the time. No difference from placebo. And in cases where true DB studies are not possible random control studies are possible and in every legit study of those cases homeopathy is also batting a big goose egg. Hundreds of years of tests and it has NEVER EVER EVER outperformed a placebo on any legit test.Never. Not once. THAT is a number you should be able to understand.

Now as to the supposed trials you repeatedly cite from Cuba, please link to the scientific methods and controls used and who it was conducting the tests and what their bias might be. It's funny that a legit test with supposedly 11 million case studies has completely escaped the attention of the legitimate scientific community. I can claim that 50 trillion people in Burkina Faso have been cured of ALS by beer therapy, but only an idiot would believe that claim without proof.
I can only give you reports on this, not the authors of the experiment.

https://homeopathyresource.wordpres...-in-over-5-million-people-reported-from-cuba/
https://homeopathyresource.wordpres...on-leptospirosis-prevention-from-the-authors/

Draw your own conclusions, yourself.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,560
14,961
146
And yet like homeopathy water dowsing has failed 100% of the time under controlled testing. But yeah, that guy was special. You can fool a 2 year old with the "got your nose" trick, but that's not science. It's the observer being easily fooled. Some people are really really easy to fool, even if they're not 2 years old and should know better.

I was always in the “water dowsing is bullshit” group until I saw it done a few times. i can’t explain it...but it works.
 

KillerCharlie

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2005
3,691
68
91
And what do they call the med student that graduated at the very bottom of the class, and is about to cut your open?

Yea, they call him "doctor".

At least they are MDs. Those who can't get into regular med school become DOs (exactly what happened to two of my friends). Whenever I have a choice, I go with an MD over a DO.
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
25,305
6,347
146

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,842
3,630
136

The only thing they're reversing is the flow of money in peoples bank accounts.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
9,442
8,853
136
At least they are MDs. Those who can't get into regular med school become DOs (exactly what happened to two of my friends). Whenever I have a choice, I go with an MD over a DO.
But do you want to call that doctor, your doctor? I don't?
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,560
14,961
146
At least they are MDs. Those who can't get into regular med school become DOs (exactly what happened to two of my friends). Whenever I have a choice, I go with an MD over a DO.

Yet the best, smartest, most "medical" doctor I ever had was a DO, not an MD. He was our family doctor for over 20 years. One of the things I REALLY liked was that he didn't push pills for everything. He'd write a script when he felt it was necessary...but often, "take this OTC stuff...it will do as much as the expensive prescription the drug companies want me to write." And...when the drug companies gave him boxes of samples, he'd give them to his patients when appropriate. When I was first diagnosed with HBP, (with no health insurance) rather than bounce me around from one prescription to another, trying to find one that would work for me with the fewest side effects, he got out his sample box and gave me 30 day supplies of meds..."Try this one. We'll see how it works for you, then go from there."
Got me through 3 bouts of fucking pneumonia...that shit sucked...several "minor" injuries, a couple of more serious work comp injuries, and all the general medical bullshit that families with kids have to deal with.
Best doc I ever had, hands down.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Except dowsing is NOT a hoax. Not everyone has the knack...so it seems like a hoax, but I worked with a guy who did it (irrigation district) and he never missed. How does it work? No fucking idea, but it does...for some people.

the guy got lucky... Dowsing is a pure hoax.