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Chirac Rebukes Bush Over Turkey and the EU

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Bush should have told France that Turkey isn't allowed to join the EU then France would have wanted them in right away. France is really threatened by the US and the only power that they have is to condemn anything that is forward thinking.

Should the USA have minded their own business when a certain evil individual tried to make them speak German for the rest of their lives? Obviously not. Should the USA make a statement that the EU should not be divided along lines of race and religion? Yes.
 
Originally posted by: Bling
Bush should have told France that Turkey isn't allowed to join the EU then France would have wanted them in right away. France is really threatened by the US and the only power that they have is to condemn anything that is forward thinking.

Should the USA have minded their own business when a certain evil individual tried to make them speak German for the rest of their lives? Obviously not. Should the USA make a statement that the EU should not be divided along lines of race and religion? Yes.

The US has no business telling an Organization it isn't part of who that Organization should take as a member. I suppose if it is just a subtle promotion as a, "I got someone who might benefit your Organization" kinda thing it would be ok, but Bush isn't quite Buddy-buddy with the EU and he has no one to blame but himself for that. If you need to cross a bridge, don't burn it down first.
 
Bush has every right to say what he did. Membership for Turkey would make a large difference to the security of the USA. There isn't a day that goes by that other countries are not making speeches in the UN telling the USA what they should do.

Michael
 
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: Helenihi
Like Europe will ever let the Turks join the EU. Too brown and too Muslim.



Turkey will join the EU in the next 5 - 10 years

the current issues are about Cyprus and the Kurds

And lots of violation of humans rights, and a not too well functioning public sector.
 
Originally posted by: Michael
Bush has every right to say what he did. Membership for Turkey would make a large difference to the security of the USA.

Why? They're already members of NATO, and AFAIK Turkey voted against the used of their airports for attacking Iraq.
 
Bush Ignores Chirac and repeats call for Turkey membership in EU

ISTANBUL (AFP) - US President George W. Bush (news - web sites) repeated a call for the European Union (news - web sites) to admit Turkey, ignoring criticism by France that he was interfering in EU affairs.

But Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan brushed aside suggestions that a spat between Bush and French President Jacques Chirac had marred a two-day NATO (news - web sites) summit here, saying "it should not be cause of discomfort."

"America believes that as a European power, Turkey belongs in the European Union," Bush said in a speech to students at Istanbul's Galatasaray University as he wrapped up his maiden visit to this NATO ally.

"Your membership would also be a crucial advance in relations between the Muslim world and the West, because you are part of both. Including Turkey in the EU would prove that Europe is not the exclusive club of a single religion."

Bush did not repeat his call, made before talks with Erdogan in Ankara on Sunday, that Turkey "ought to be given a date" by Brussels for EU entry.

Those remarks drew an exasperated rebuke a day later from French President Jacques Chirac, who said they were "like me telling the United States how to run its affairs with Mexico."

"Not only did he go too far, he ventured into territory which is not his concern," Chirac told a news conference on the sidelines of the summit of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation.

But the French leader refused to be drawn into a public slanging match with Bush on Tuesday.

"I stated very clearly my position yesterday," he told a reporter who asked him at a news conference to comment.

"We are friends, we are allies but we are not subservient, when we disagree with one another we say so," he added.

Erdogan also sought to play down the incident.

"I believe it should be considered as being normal for the president of a very influential country in the world to express his opinion," he told a news conference after the summit ended.

But he pointed out that, while "President Bush (news - web sites) expressed his good will," the United States had no say in the way the EU admitted new members to its fold.

"They will not be there in that process," he said.

Chirac made it clear, moreover, that whatever differences he had with Bush, it was not over the question of Turkish membership of the EU.

"The path taken is now irreversible," he said when asked what he thought of Turkey's bid to join.

Turkey, a formal candidate of the newly enlarged 25-strong bloc since 1999, is keen for the go-ahead to begin membership talks with the bloc when EU leaders meet in December to assess its progress in democracy and human rights.

Turkey argues that it has met most of the criteria required to begin membership talks, but Brussels has said it must also see the reforms properly implemented.

In his speech, Bush called Turkey "a model to others" among predominantly Muslim nations that seek to embrace democracy and said Ankara was "moving rapidly to meet the criteria for membership" in the EU.

Bush said Europe had the opportunity to erase an "artificial division by including Turkey in the future of Europe."

The spat between Bush and Chirac introduced a new chill into relations which had only just begun to thaw after hitting a nadir during last year's US-led invasion of Iraq (news - web sites), which Paris fiercely opposed.

While Chirac has said he, too, believes that Turkey "has a European vocation," he has also cautioned that the conditions for its entry to the EU have not yet been met.
link

<chuckle> Thats Bush! Like he'd give a damn what Chirac says.
 
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Meh, Chirac sees France as the counterweight to the U.S. More of the same here.

Chirac should relize that France is a useless dingleberry in the world...

I think we should pack up our troops and send them to France....Mission accomplished in less than 48 hrs!

Umm...You're retarded. If you think that the US could beat France in war in 48 hours, you are sorely mistaken. They kind of have the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in the world, and one of the top 5 militaries.

In response to the thread, I agree with Chirac that it is not Bush's jurisdiction to decide whether Turkey should be admitted to the EU. That decision is up to the countries that comprise the EU, and no one else.
 
AcidicFury - Bush wasn't "deciding", he was publically declaring his support. Seems that France is the only country that has its panties in a bunch over it.

Michael
 
The current and most of the previous administrations of the 20th Century just don't get it. No one likes to be told what they can/can't do on an individual level and this certainly applies on a nationalistic level. Whether it be countries which we accuse of violating human right issues or terrorist organizations with anti-US agendas...it's all the same. They are anti-US because we try to impose our values, cultures, and opinions onto them.
 
What bothers me here is that it's not in Europe's interest to have Turkey as a member. Americans and British have always wanted the EU to be more of an economic unit than a political or cultural unit. Let's face it, Turkey, besides Istanbul/Constantinople, is in the middle-east. Moreover, they're economically, ethnically, religiously, and culturally different than most Europeans. If Turkey gets in, the EU reverts more to a NAFTA or EEC format. This isn't the EEC anymore, so the EU is more than that. It could be a community of a people with a common history (including christianity, etc) and beliefs.

Moreover, let's not forget that if Turkey becomes an EU member, Turks can migrate anywhere in Europe. With their relatively large population of ethnic turks / arabs, most people in Europe don't want that. And before we criticize the EU for potentially being racist, let's not forget that most countries don't like having large scale ethnic immigration (see Japan). If a "white" area wants to remain white-- so be it, not every country has to be a melting pot like the US (and judging by white flight most white Americans aren't crazy about it either).

Finally, I don't even think this is in the US's interest. In the long run, it's probably wise to contain muslim populations. The muslim problems in Europe are bad enough as it is. If Europe becomes more muslim you can bet it also becomes more anti-us.
 
Ah the French... The few, the proud, the...wait a minute! When have they EVER stood up for anything (besides standing up against this war, which doesn't suprise me in the least)?

You would think ONCE, just ONCE the French would stand-by us in thanks for their freedom. Nope.

It's not here yet, but O'reilly summed up the French nicely in his Talking Points Memo this evening.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96207,00.html
 
Originally posted by: M0NEYSH0T
Ah the French... The few, the proud, the...wait a minute! When have they EVER stood up for anything (besides standing up against this war, which doesn't suprise me in the least)?

You would think ONCE, just ONCE the French would stand-by us in thanks for their freedom. Nope.

It's not here yet, but O'reilly summed up the French nicely in his Talking Points Memo this evening.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96207,00.html

Oh wait, they stood by you in your most important time. There's your once.
 
Bush has every right to be an advocate for Turkey, and Chirac has every right to tell him to fsck off, and ignore him.
 
So Chirac has never said anything about Latin America, or the US's policies regarding Latin America, Canada, or others? I find that very hard to believe. It is possible that Chirac has never said anything about our dealings on our own continent, but I severely doubt that. Bush has the right to press for Turkey's admittance, and Chirac has the right to say it is none of Bush's business. However, that is quite naive for Chirac to conclude that Turkey's admission wouldn't effect the US or the rest of the World.
 
Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom
Originally posted by: piasabird
No matter what we want or do on this side of the pond the European Unions will want to do it differently. I have seen this for a long time in the Computer Field and the Communications Field. They just want to make it difficult for the USA to compete freely with them in a true free market. What the EU wants is a free market only for the EU nations. They dont like the USA because we represent quality products at lower prices. I think they envision piles of money traveling outside of Europe and hurting their economy. If you fail to realize the the EU sees us as advesaries, then you are blind.

I say pull all of our resources like troops out of Europe and let them defend themselves next time there is a war. If not out of Europe, pull out troops out of Germany and France. We work so hard to protect Europe and they have worked so hard to resist any access we have to European markets. The EU does not even value the protection we have have provided for them enough to let us compete in a free and open market. Let them dig their own graves.

USA troops spend lots of USA Dollars in the EU. If they hate us so much just pull our troops out or shift them to another location. Let them spend their USA Dollars in some of the Bases we have closed in the USA. The USA should go to a non Oil-based motor vehicle like a Hydrogen Vehicle. That way we can throw a big monkey wrench into the economy of the middle-east and they will not have the funds to buy so much arms and ammunition to kill us with.

What the hell are you talking about?
The US had troops in europe to "protect" western europe because of the cold war. Since the cold war ended, the politics of europe have changed dramatically. The EU has formed and as such it is quite capable of defending itself and it is becoming quite a strong economical adversary too (see the euro compared to the dollar).
so, what exactly is your point, since you are mixing old history (cold war era) with a new situation (EU)?


Good question. I especially do not get his first paragraph, the remainder is just incoherent ramblings.
 
Originally posted by: Mill
So Chirac has never said anything about Latin America, or the US's policies regarding Latin America, Canada, or others? I find that very hard to believe. It is possible that Chirac has never said anything about our dealings on our own continent, but I severely doubt that. Bush has the right to press for Turkey's admittance, and Chirac has the right to say it is none of Bush's business. However, that is quite naive for Chirac to conclude that Turkey's admission wouldn't effect the US or the rest of the World.

To make situation somewhat equal. I am not aware that France (or any European country) officially demanded for Cuba to be granted membership in NAFTA.
 
Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom
Originally posted by: piasabird
No matter what we want or do on this side of the pond the European Unions will want to do it differently. I have seen this for a long time in the Computer Field and the Communications Field. They just want to make it difficult for the USA to compete freely with them in a true free market. What the EU wants is a free market only for the EU nations. They dont like the USA because we represent quality products at lower prices. I think they envision piles of money traveling outside of Europe and hurting their economy. If you fail to realize the the EU sees us as advesaries, then you are blind.

I say pull all of our resources like troops out of Europe and let them defend themselves next time there is a war. If not out of Europe, pull out troops out of Germany and France. We work so hard to protect Europe and they have worked so hard to resist any access we have to European markets. The EU does not even value the protection we have have provided for them enough to let us compete in a free and open market. Let them dig their own graves.

USA troops spend lots of USA Dollars in the EU. If they hate us so much just pull our troops out or shift them to another location. Let them spend their USA Dollars in some of the Bases we have closed in the USA. The USA should go to a non Oil-based motor vehicle like a Hydrogen Vehicle. That way we can throw a big monkey wrench into the economy of the middle-east and they will not have the funds to buy so much arms and ammunition to kill us with.

What the hell are you talking about?
The US had troops in europe to "protect" western europe because of the cold war. Since the cold war ended, the politics of europe have changed dramatically. The EU has formed and as such it is quite capable of defending itself and it is becoming quite a strong economical adversary too (see the euro compared to the dollar).
so, what exactly is your point, since you are mixing old history (cold war era) with a new situation (EU)?

The US has let the dollar slide on purpose vs the Euro.
 
Originally posted by: B00ne
Originally posted by: Mill
So Chirac has never said anything about Latin America, or the US's policies regarding Latin America, Canada, or others? I find that very hard to believe. It is possible that Chirac has never said anything about our dealings on our own continent, but I severely doubt that. Bush has the right to press for Turkey's admittance, and Chirac has the right to say it is none of Bush's business. However, that is quite naive for Chirac to conclude that Turkey's admission wouldn't effect the US or the rest of the World.

To make situation somewhat equal. I am not aware that France (or any European country) officially demanded for Cuba to be granted membership in NAFTA.

I'd hazard to say Cuba is a bit different from Turkey, but that's just from my US viewpoint. I'm sure there are some Europeans that see Turkey as more of a problem than Cuba. At least Turkey is democratic though.
 
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom
Originally posted by: piasabird
No matter what we want or do on this side of the pond the European Unions will want to do it differently. I have seen this for a long time in the Computer Field and the Communications Field. They just want to make it difficult for the USA to compete freely with them in a true free market. What the EU wants is a free market only for the EU nations. They dont like the USA because we represent quality products at lower prices. I think they envision piles of money traveling outside of Europe and hurting their economy. If you fail to realize the the EU sees us as advesaries, then you are blind.

I say pull all of our resources like troops out of Europe and let them defend themselves next time there is a war. If not out of Europe, pull out troops out of Germany and France. We work so hard to protect Europe and they have worked so hard to resist any access we have to European markets. The EU does not even value the protection we have have provided for them enough to let us compete in a free and open market. Let them dig their own graves.

USA troops spend lots of USA Dollars in the EU. If they hate us so much just pull our troops out or shift them to another location. Let them spend their USA Dollars in some of the Bases we have closed in the USA. The USA should go to a non Oil-based motor vehicle like a Hydrogen Vehicle. That way we can throw a big monkey wrench into the economy of the middle-east and they will not have the funds to buy so much arms and ammunition to kill us with.

What the hell are you talking about?
The US had troops in europe to "protect" western europe because of the cold war. Since the cold war ended, the politics of europe have changed dramatically. The EU has formed and as such it is quite capable of defending itself and it is becoming quite a strong economical adversary too (see the euro compared to the dollar).
so, what exactly is your point, since you are mixing old history (cold war era) with a new situation (EU)?

The US has let the dollar slide on purpose vs the Euro.
link?
 
How is it that so many people claim that we saved France during WWII? I have found no historical examples of a great call to save France. We went to war against Germany after they declared war on us. Invading/liberating France was only collateral to defeating Germany. They were of course, grateful and we made political hay of it.
 
1st. Bush should mind his own, not EU business.
2nd. France is not the only one commenting on this issue.
3rd. Turkey is nowhere near being an eligible EU candidate.
4th. Maybe someone missed it, but a large number of EU countries wanted to have christianity put in the constitution... wonder why? (Hint, Turkey is NOT Christian country)
5th. EU is for free movement of people and workforce... Turkey would bring some issues to many countries. (also see next)
6th. Turkey would bring to EU a border with muslim extremist countries, and would be a whole new ball game. (can anyone spell terrorism.)
7th. All support currently paid to member countries should be stopped and directed to Turkey, and EU still couldn't cover the costs Turkey would impliment.
8th. ...

Yes, I am against bringin Turkey in... but you surely quessed that already. Next thing Israel says it wants to join... then what?
 
Maybe Bush should take care of our border issue and help us here at home before trying to help Turkey and giving advice to France. Maybe France doesn't want to be overrun by illegal Turks like we are being overrun in California because Bush and the GOP would rather pander to illegals.

Serious bullsh!t. The immigrant issue was raised with the inclusion of eastern European countries and even with Spain and Greece, but capital moves faster than people, meaning that businesses set up shop in those countries before the disenfranchised could move elsewhere -- opportunity knocked before they moved.

Turkey will join the EU in the next 5 - 10 years

the current issues are about Cyprus and the Kurds

5-10 years?!? Not if France has anything to say about it! I believe Chirac made a statement awhile back saying that in 5-10 years Turkey would be in a position to be seriously considered for EU membership, implying that another 20 was required -- keep in mind that Turkey initially received consideration for membership in the '60s!

The EU screwed the pooch on Cyprus. That is a serious mess and not one that's likely to be fixed any time soon.

The French stance against Turkey has less to do with concerns about economic issues than it does about the French not wanting to be sidelined by a country that's larger than they are. France is bitter about its loss of international prestige and is ALWAYS seeking to maintain its presence on the world stage, which is usually accomplished by opposing the United States. Its position within the EU is strong, but allowing Turkey to enter the EU would relegate France to #3, something they cannot possibly stomach. Until the French government realizes that they are no longer as important as they were under Napoleon, they will always be ruffling their feathers to make themselves noticed.
 
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