Chipotle Mexican Grill fires more than half its employees in Minnesota.

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,673
28,825
136
Take away that government cheese and they will do it.

Either that or starve to death....again, we are solving problems here.

That will solve everything. Take someone who supports a family, have him work a min wage job eventually that will lead to welfare or qualifying for govt assistance. Just transferring the problem.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8289

Human rights organizations, as well as political and social ones, are condemning what they are calling a new form of inhumane exploitation in the United States, where they say a prison population of up to 2 million - mostly Black and Hispanic - are working for various industries for a pittance. For the tycoons who have invested in the prison industry, it has been like finding a pot of gold. They don't have to worry about strikes or paying unemployment insurance, vacations or comp time. All of their workers are full-time, and never arrive late or are absent because of family problems; moreover, if they don't like the pay of 25 cents an hour and refuse to work, they are locked up in isolation cells.

There are approximately 2 million inmates in state, federal and private prisons throughout the country. According to California Prison Focus, "no other society in human history has imprisoned so many of its own citizens." The figures show that the United States has locked up more people than any other country: a half million more than China, which has a population five times greater than the U.S. Statistics reveal that the United States holds 25% of the world's prison population, but only 5% of the world's people. From less than 300,000 inmates in 1972, the jail population grew to 2 million by the year 2000. In 1990 it was one million. Ten years ago there were only five private prisons in the country, with a population of 2,000 inmates; now, there are 100, with 62,000 inmates. It is expected that by the coming decade, the number will hit 360,000, according to reports.

The prison industry complex is one of the fastest-growing industries in the United States and its investors are on Wall Street. "This multimillion-dollar industry has its own trade exhibitions, conventions, websites, and mail-order/Internet catalogs. It also has direct advertising campaigns, architecture companies, construction companies, investment houses on Wall Street, plumbing supply companies, food supply companies, armed security, and padded cells in a large variety of colors."

According to the Left Business Observer, the federal prison industry produces 100% of all military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, shirts, pants, tents, bags, and canteens. Along with war supplies, prison workers supply 98% of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93% of paints and paintbrushes; 92% of stove assembly; 46% of body armor; 36% of home appliances; 30% of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21% of office furniture. Airplane parts, medical supplies, and much more: prisoners are even raising seeing-eye dogs for blind people.

See, they can have jobs in prison and still get paid and contribute to society. And American kids can actually work at Chipotle to help pay tuition.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
For those of you that said our economy could not go on without ILLEGALS, let me ask you this. We did not have ten of MILLIONS of ILLEGALS 20-30 years ago and our economy was ok, why would it crash and burn if all ILLEGALS are gone now?
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
For those of you that said our economy could not go on without ILLEGALS, let me ask you this. We did not have ten of MILLIONS of ILLEGALS 20-30 years ago and our economy was ok, why would it crash and burn if all ILLEGALS are gone now?

What they mean is that corporations would have to pay a living wage.
And for corporations that's unacceptable.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,553
834
126
For those of you that said our economy could not go on without ILLEGALS, let me ask you this. We did not have ten of MILLIONS of ILLEGALS 20-30 years ago and our economy was ok, why would it crash and burn if all ILLEGALS are gone now?

They do jobs "Americans" don't want to, as high as unemployment is, there are still jobs. There's a Strawberry field around where I live, they'll pretty much higher a person on the spot. The illegals are the only ones who want to do it. They're willing to work all day for $5 or less an hour. There are plenty of other jobs that fit this description too. Deport all them and who's going to do these jobs? Not "Americans" since we're making almost no effort to do them now. We could get these jobs today, but choose not to. Working for less than minimum wage is illegal, but it's better than no job at all right? And if the illegals can do it and manage to survive then we should be able to do the same.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Of all my friends that have gone to the USA, for all of them one of the most salient aspects is how cheap food is there - as in how cheap it is to eat out. As compared with here, Australia, most of Western Europe etc it seems to be extremely cheap to eat out in America.

Is USA really that dependent on illegal labour? Is it really as bad as some people make it out to be (I frequently see Americans describe illegal labour as endemic in the hospitality industry)?

If so, are Americans willing to work to eliminate illegal workers if it means paying a lot more to eat out?

TANTAAFL - increased taxes to warehouse and feed our unemployed more than make up for cheap food. Cheap is more expensive.


Not to mention these low wage service jobs don't come close to covering the children illegals enroll in our schools. They make about $18,000 a year and pay almost zero taxes. Each child costs $10,000 on average to send to public school.
 
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Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
2
76
how can fake SS cards "check out fine"? Don't these large chains have formal background check procedures in place?

they aren't fake, they are legit SS #'s. much beyond that, I dont know....

he says they have everything in order to pass their checks, he only knows for sure they are illegal if he has hired them before, under different documents. then he wotn rehire because of course its policy to not hire illegals knowingly.

he's agm'd a few national chains and said its all the same.

maybe the chains need to 'upgrade' but i would imagine more thorough checks are costly and that means no ones doing it w/o being forced to I'm sure
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
They do jobs "Americans" don't want to, as high as unemployment is, there are still jobs. There's a Strawberry field around where I live, they'll pretty much higher a person on the spot. The illegals are the only ones who want to do it. They're willing to work all day for $5 or less an hour. There are plenty of other jobs that fit this description too. Deport all them and who's going to do these jobs? Not "Americans" since we're making almost no effort to do them now. We could get these jobs today, but choose not to. Working for less than minimum wage is illegal, but it's better than no job at all right? And if the illegals can do it and manage to survive then we should be able to do the same.

Take away welfare and watch them work. It's ridiculous we import people and pay ours to sit at home watching TV.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Actually nothing you said is even related to what he proposed which was an e-verify system for employers which would allow for actual americans to hold low paying jobs instead of illegals. Unless you think building a fence is the same thing which is pretty funny. (That was aside from the Rex Ryan incoherent rambling about how people are making it "personal" and something about the octomom collecting unemployment.)

Errrr I'm arguing his point - if you address the economics of the issue, people won't have any incentive to come to the U.S. illegally. The bigger issue here is that gov't has very little incentives to do so, since both sides of the isle benefit from having illegals in the country. That's why you end up with "solutions" like bigger fence or national guard on the border.

And yes, on the other topic, there's something to be said about the dehumanization of illegals in this whole debate. Americans do seem to focus on the illegals (the people) rather than on the policy problem that it is - it's sorta the same dynamic as flipping out about how drug dealers are the scum of the earth rather than deal with the issue of drugs. You can arrest/deport either one and next day there will be another person in the very same role; you haven't fixed anything.
 
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Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
they aren't fake, they are legit SS #'s. much beyond that, I dont know....

he says they have everything in order to pass their checks, he only knows for sure they are illegal if he has hired them before, under different documents. then he wotn rehire because of course its policy to not hire illegals knowingly.

he's agm'd a few national chains and said its all the same.

maybe the chains need to 'upgrade' but i would imagine more thorough checks are costly and that means no ones doing it w/o being forced to I'm sure

I have hired a lot of people and IRS takes 4-6 months to send you a letter of duplicate number, fraudulent number or whatnot. That's 4-6 months they can work just fine. Then what some employers do is use that opportunity to clean out dead wood and just rehire the good ones with a different card.. SS Cards look 100% legit. And they have drivers license - that's two forms of ID you need for i9 form. It's trivial to maintain an illegal workforce if you micromanage it well.
 
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Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
No, again with the simple solutions.

"Take this away and they will work"

BS. A significant portion will resort to crime.

Now, as for teh bone headed posts about prisons not being full, nice cherry-picking there. The prisons in Cali are busting because of the POPULAR 3-strikes legislation pounded through by like minded individuals. They are over crowded and privatization of it is not a solution. It also sets up possible abuse as many of the inmates are petty criminals. Chain gang for parking tickets or petty larceny? Sure! Why not!

:p

The number abusing welfare is relatively small. You keep shouting to remove all aid until you look at many that use it, including my FIL that raised 5 kids, put them through public college and was able to contribute 5 FULLY EDUCATED AND EMPLOYED CHILDREN into the WHITE COLLAR workforce while earning less than $30K/year working as a janitor and living in public housing.

That welfare money was what made it possible for the kids to GET educated and move up and out, instead of washing dishes their entire life.

Also, what about the cases where you have a widow that does not have enough $ to feed her kids? Child labor maybe? She can just bring her kids with her on the bus to her job as a waitress in the city! Yeah! That will work!

NO absolute solution works, and that is why politics will never be able to get one that does. Voters only believe in a solution you can explain in 30 seconds or less. They want everything for nothing (as evidenced by their willingness to shop at Wal Mart over other companies that provide their workers with better benefits, just to get a cheaper price).

We buy our shit from China because it is cheaper yet we cry about our debt to them.

We want everything and do not want to pay anything for it. It don't work that way.

If people were willing to pay $10 a pint for strawberries you would see a lot more gringoes in the fields, but until that day, we are forcing the planters to do what they can to meet demand.

If they don't, we will not buy from them, we will buy from the guy still hiring illegals.

Unless you want to reduce everyone down to the level of a Mexican Ghetto that these guys are coming from.

Then, yes, we will get cheap "American" labor, along with all the problems associated with home grown poverty.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
I had it for the first time 2 weeks ago and I'll never have it again. It's not that good at all. Sure the burritos are big but they are 99% rice. Not much taste to them. Also my burrito had nearly no meat in it. It seems white people and asians love it though.

you can ask for less rice and more meat. or even no rice.

but that would be foolish, b/c the rice is fucking amazing.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,553
834
126
Take away welfare and watch them work. It's ridiculous we import people and pay ours to sit at home watching TV.

For some yes, but many would just resort to a life of crime. And a bunch of others will stand on a free way off ramp with a sign "no job, please give me money k-thnx" There are tons of people that don't have a job who don't get any type of government kick backs. They end up becoming mooches off family members and/or homeless.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Unless you want to reduce everyone down to the level of a Mexican Ghetto that these guys are coming from.

That's what will happen when we can't borrow no more. Systems that can't sustain, don't. Everyone in the SotU speech uttered the words unsustainable. There will be no welfare. Little public schooling, torturous prisons etc. And like Mexico we will have a few billionaires, 5% middle class and rest in poverty and destitution.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
For some yes, but many would just resort to a life of crime. And a bunch of others will stand on a free way off ramp with a sign "no job, please give me money k-thnx" There are tons of people that don't have a job who don't get any type of government kick backs. They end up becoming mooches off family members and/or homeless.

I doubt it. History is our guide and in the great depression crime was not bad, people just wanted to work.

Crime is not bad in poor countries either if you stay away from cartels.

Crime is not bad with improvised illegals who come here ether. Sure some have no moral character but that's true in every society but for most part people do the right thing and just want to work. And they do.
 
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SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
No, again with the simple solutions.

"Take this away and they will work"

BS. A significant portion will resort to crime.

Now, as for teh bone headed posts about prisons not being full, nice cherry-picking there. The prisons in Cali are busting because of the POPULAR 3-strikes legislation pounded through by like minded individuals. They are over crowded and privatization of it is not a solution. It also sets up possible abuse as many of the inmates are petty criminals. Chain gang for parking tickets or petty larceny? Sure! Why not!

:p

Not disputing that crime could rise. However, if the prisons are full in CA they will be sent elsewhere. Texas had the same problem and it was contracted out to CCA. Read the link I posted.

The main thing to realize is that the rise in crime would only be temporary. Once illegals realize they cannot dupe the system and it isn't worth coming over here, then things would be back to normal.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
Prison costs a LOT of money.

My point being that cherry picking an article saying that it would be more economical to deal with more prisoners (I believe the US has one of the highest per-capita rates of incarceration in the modern world, ALREADY) than to try and feed and educate those that do not have the funds to do it themselves is just wrong.

It only looks at the immediate, and not the secondary and tertiary effects of a decision like that. And, as I dsaid before, people do not want to think that hard. Solve the immediate problem, then deal with the cascading results as they happen.

"Things would go back to normal". Only Disney makes things go "back to normal". And who says the Mexicans would be the only ones committing the crimes?
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Prison costs a LOT of money.

My point being that cherry picking an article saying that it would be more economical to deal with more prisoners (I believe the US has one of the highest per-capita rates of incarceration in the modern world, ALREADY) than to try and feed and educate those that do not have the funds to do it themselves is just wrong.

It only looks at the immediate, and not the secondary and tertiary effects of a decision like that. And, as I dsaid before, people do not want to think that hard. Solve the immediate problem, then deal with the cascading results as they happen.

"Things would go back to normal". Only Disney makes things go "back to normal". And who says the Mexicans would be the only ones committing the crimes?

It doesn't matter, if illegals or whatever type of person wants to commit a crime and be used as prison labor then it benefits society as a whole. To think a solution for illegal immigration isn't going to cost money is absurd, do you think it's going to be free (speaking of Disney). At least the prisons can recoup a good portion of the cost by loaning out the labor to companies such as the one in Maryland (crab picking) who need it. It's the best solution to illegal immigration, and if illegals want to keep coming back b/c our prisons offer a better lifestyle then back home then so be it.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
See. Starting off with "it doesn't matter".

Prison labor does not cost less. It is unskilled, not very productive, and has an overhead cost. This is not taken into account for the total cost.

It still costs us more money to have prisoners punch license plates than to ship them in from China!

You have a very unrealistic and impractical plan for controlling immigration.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
See. Starting off with "it doesn't matter".

Prison labor does not cost less. It is unskilled, not very productive, and has an overhead cost. This is not taken into account for the total cost.

It still costs us more money to have prisoners punch license plates than to ship them in from China!

You have a very unrealistic and impractical plan for controlling immigration.

Ok, if prison labor wasn't profitable then why is the private industry booming? Did you even read the article? In Maryland they hired inmates to crab pick for 6-10/hr and guess who got a huge cut of it? In addition, prison labor, even it wasn't profitable, is still getting something back from people who would normally not be worth a dam in this country (i.e. people who are not fit for society such as criminals - legal and illegal citizens). I would be willing to take it a step further and mandate that any illegal citizen caught in this country will have to do x amount of time working prison labor. If that's not a deterrent then I don't know what is.

"It is unskilled [labor], not very productive". Wth do you think illegals are doing? Skilled labor? They are doing the jobs that any monkey can do (cleaning, pick fruit, landscaping, make food at Mexican restaurant).

I've blown holes through all of your retorts (cost, unskilled labor) and posted links as proof. Your turn.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
Because they are also being paid by the state.

When you have your base expenses taken care of by someone else, the funding for the labor itself is cheap.
 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
lol upscale? The food's prepared directly in front of the customer while they watch. I love how people equate that to uber quality. Most overrated place to eat ever.


It's served hot and it has fat in it.

Overall, it is quite apalling to hear.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Just went to the Chipotle of Excelsior and hwy 100. Hilarious, no more mexicans working there and the people didnt know wtf they were doing. The guy running the register charged my CC 9 cents and then voided it and gave me a free meal.
 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
That's what will happen when we can't borrow no more. Systems that can't sustain, don't. Everyone in the SotU speech uttered the words unsustainable. There will be no welfare. Little public schooling, torturous prisons etc. And like Mexico we will have a few billionaires, 5% middle class and rest in poverty and destitution.

That's when I will hop on board on top of a train and enter Canada as a an illegal bacon farmer.