China's stipulation on NBA players

[gopunk]

They need to be concerned with bringing their social and political structure into the 20th damn century and not haggling with the US on principle over the "buyout" price of their 7 foot tall national treasure.

it's the same concept with any asset, not just athletes.

I see where you're coming from, but China does not "own" this guy however much they have invested in him.

any country can prevent a citizen from leaving... i'm sure there are several people in the states, whom the u.s. government would try to prevent from leaving the country.

and don't forget, he has the option to disobey and suffer the consequences.

Besides, I don't see them pulling this same crap with the thousands of chinese PhD's that live and work in the US for american companies. Isn't that the same thing, though on a less glamorous scale than that of a pro athlete? It's a huge brain drain that could be working to improve China and its technology, but they are instead working for us.

i don't think they invest nearly as much for your average PhD. but you are right, it is a brain drain, and i'm sure they're looking for ways to stop that.

 

[gopunk]

<< << btw, if they are leaving for another country, it usually means they aren't that great over here. so it's not like we're losing anything.>>

If you're talking Olympic athletes, you're wrong. When an Olympic athlete turns pro, he doesn't owe the US a thing. If a basketball player goes overseas to play, he's still making some big money. Just because a baller can't play in the NBA doesn't mean he can't make some serious $$$. >>





Excuse me for talking for gopunk, but he said they arent that great over here, he didnt say they cant make money. But in any case, I cant see the money being anywhere near comparable what some NBA players make.[/i] >>




yea that is what i said and meant. i have no idea where you came up with that olympic / money thing.

 

[XMan]

<< any country can prevent a citizen from leaving... i'm sure there are several people in the states, whom the u.s. government would try to prevent from leaving the country. >>



I don't think the US government would freak out if Ken Griffey wanted to play baseball in Japan . . .

Realistically, though, China probably won't be able to do this to the guy if they want him to play in the NBA. The NBA Player's Union has pretty strict guidelines about agent percentages (I think they're capped at 4%). They might get away with taxing 50% of his salary, but I don't believe that they'd be able to tax the other half.

Not sure where you got the 12 million figure, though. Under the NBA's rookie salary scale, if Ming is the #1 pick, his contract is a max of 4 years, ~24 million.

 

[gopunk]

I don't think the US government would freak out if Ken Griffey wanted to play baseball in Japan . . .

i don't think so either, he's a whiny detriment to the team

i was actually referring to high level scientists. of course, that brings in the issue of national security, but the concept is the same. the u.s. doesn't "own" them either, but they will certainly try and prevent them from moving to say... iraq.

 

[poopaskoopa]

<< Not sure where you got the 12 million figure, though. Under the NBA's rookie salary scale, if Ming is the #1 pick, his contract is a max of 4 years, ~24 million. >>


I wondered about this as well. However the figure comes from the espn.com article. And it states that does not include endorsements.

 

[satori]

I call this selective news reporting, since it's something that would happen to ANYONE working in a foreign country.

Here's some info from the bankrate.com website (The second link that popped up on a google search).

Under U.S. tax laws, the worldwide income of any U.S. citizen or a resident alien is subject to tax. It doesn't matter if you're living in the United States or overseas, or the money came to you as wages, independent contractor payments or unearned income from investments, pensions, rents or royalties. The Internal Revenue Service is due its legal percentage.

But there is a break for U.S. taxpayers who live abroad. These citizens may be able to exclude all or a portion of their foreign income. For 2001 returns, up to $78,000 of non-U.S. earnings could be exempt.

I'm sure there's more to it than this, but basically, the first 78K can be tax-exempt. Since we're talking about salaries well over a million dollars, a 50% tax rate isn't out of the question. If you look at the breakdown, it seems like the Chinese government is asking for 30%... that's LOWER than what he'd have to pay if he were an American working in China. The other 20% seems to be going to his former team. Isn't this the same as the Mariners paying 10+ million for the rights to negotiate with Ichiro?

 

[shazbot]

it seems kinda stupid if a U.S. citizen living in say england has to pay both the british & U.S. tax, even if he is making over 78k a year.

 

[Zebo]

<<

<< any country can prevent a citizen from leaving... i'm sure there are several people in the states, whom the u.s. government would try to prevent from leaving the country. >>



I don't think the US government would freak out if Ken Griffey wanted to play baseball in Japan . . .

Realistically, though, China probably won't be able to do this to the guy if they want him to play in the NBA. The NBA Player's Union has pretty strict guidelines about agent percentages (I think they're capped at 4%). They might get away with taxing 50% of his salary, but I don't believe that they'd be able to tax the other half.

Not sure where you got the 12 million figure, though. Under the NBA's rookie salary scale, if Ming is the #1 pick, his contract is a max of 4 years, ~24 million. >>



That's where you wrong and why China is perfectly in thier right to charge him income tax...Only the first $75,000 KEN made in Japan would be tax-free and after that his 9,335,000 would be taxed at normal US tax rates assuming he keeps his US citizenship.

 

[XMan]

<< That's where you wrong and why China is perfectly in thier right to charge him income tax...Only the first $75,000 KEN made in Japan would be tax-free and after that his 9,335,000 would be taxed at normal US tax rates assuming he keeps his US citizenship. >>



I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with China taxing the first 50% of his salary. It's allowing his agent and his former team a large chunk of the other that I take issue with.

 

[Zebo]

<<

<< That's where you wrong and why China is perfectly in thier right to charge him income tax...Only the first $75,000 KEN made in Japan would be tax-free and after that his 9,335,000 would be taxed at normal US tax rates assuming he keeps his US citizenship. >>



I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with China taxing the first 50% of his salary. It's allowing his agent and his former team a large chunk of the other that I take issue with. >>



Ok tat I agree with. But I think in a couple years from now he'll say to hell with China I'm going to be an American now like most Chinese people do.

 

[poopaskoopa]

If he watches the Behind The Music episode that covered TLC, he'd want to be a U.S. citizen right away.

 

[Desturel]

<< btw, if they are leaving for another country, it usually means they aren't that great over here. so it's not like we're losing anything. >>



Soccer, Swimming, Hockey, Tennis, Rally Racing, Biking... There are lots of sports that are played better outside of the US. Oh! I can't forget about Ping Pong

 

[CloroxCowboy]

I generally do not worry about peolpe who make in the six digit area. Much less thoose who after one season will never really need to work again. Is China any worse than any college who milks merchandise and TV contracts for cash? More power to em. Let the athletes worry about there problems I will stick with worrying about my upcoming morgage payment.

 

[gopunk]

<<

<< btw, if they are leaving for another country, it usually means they aren't that great over here. so it's not like we're losing anything. >>



Soccer, Swimming, Hockey, Tennis, Rally Racing, Biking... There are lots of sports that are played better outside of the US. Oh! I can't forget about Ping Pong >>



i'm not sure that many people leave the NHL to play hockey elsewhere. i might be wrong though.

i was referring to major sports, like baseketball, baseball, football, hockey. for sports like soccer, biking, etc... frankly nobody here really cares if they leave or not. those sports just aren't important to us.

 

[Desturel]

<< i'm not sure that many people leave the NHL to play hockey elsewhere. i might be wrong though. >>

I didn't say not play for the NHL. I said leave the US. They go to Canada all of the time.



<< i was referring to major sports, like baseketball, baseball, football, hockey. for sports like soccer, biking, etc... frankly nobody here really cares if they leave or not. those sports just aren't important to us. >>

Soccer isn't a major sport? Last I remember there were more soccer fans in the world than any other sport by an almost 2:1 ratio. I'd call that a major sport.

 

[gopunk]

<< i'm not sure that many people leave the NHL to play hockey elsewhere. i might be wrong though. >>

I didn't say not play for the NHL. I said leave the US. They go to Canada all of the time.

okay, canada doesn't count

Soccer isn't a major sport? Last I remember there were more soccer fans in the world than any other sport by an almost 2:1 ratio. I'd call that a major sport.

you know what i mean... this conversation is about sports that are important to the country the athlete is leaving. america does not care if our soccer players leave because we don't care about soccer.

 

[ThePresence]

<< Ok tat I agree with. But I think in a couple years from now he'll say to hell with China I'm going to be an American now like most Chinese people do. >>



Don't forget, his entire family is there. When they send him his sister's ear in the mail, or his mothers pinky etc., he'll reconsider his becoming a US citizen pretty quickly I'd think. USSR 101.

 

[satori]

Xerox Man: Yah, it sucks they're getting such a big cut. But, I don't really remember an uproar posted here when the Mariner's paid their 10+ million for negotiating rights to Ichiro. My numbers might be off, but I think he signed a 3 year/$15 million contract, right? So, in a sense, his former team made off with over ~40-45% of his salary. That's a lot more than the 20-25% Yao's former team and agent are gonna make.

Anyone know off the top of their head how much the dodgers bid for negotiating rights to Ishii?

 

[Desturel]

<< you know what i mean... >>



Yeah, I know what you meant, but I was making a point that there are great US athletes who go out of country to play all of the time. Even among major sports (using the ESPN definition of major sports here) like Tennis and Golf . These sports are popular in America as. There is even a soccer following in America believe it or not...

Anyway American players who decide to play out of country have to pay American taxes or renounce their citizenship. That's a bit more harsh than alot of other countries who don't force their players to pay taxes if live out of country. That's why so many international players can be found living in low tax/tax-free places like Monte Carlo, Monaco, Switzerland, and the Bahamas.

 

[Imdmn04]

why would he even consider to cut off ties with China and become a U.S. Citizen?

He would be a national hero of 1.2 billion people over there if he becomes the top pick in the NBA, we are talking about the highest level of playing field in the world. This will be unprecedented event, in a sport usually dominated by blacks and whites. not only does this makes himself proud, it makes the whole country of China proud.

if he decides to defect, he can never go back to his homeland. where all of his families and friends live. traitor would be his name forever, and with limited english speaking skills, wouldnt be very fun would it? He will be much more highly regarded in China than in the U.S.
Even if you think sports stars are big here, out of all the sports stars in America, i can only think of one superstar that every person in America knows about, which is Michael Jordan. This is the kind of recognition he will get in China if he becomes the 1st pick in the NBA and the 1st Chinese(or the whole asian race for that matter) player to be drafted as a #1 pick.

 

[Desturel]

<< i can only think of one superstar that every person in America knows about, which is Michael Jordan. >>



Tiger Woods is getting kinda popular even with people who don't watch golf. Mike Tyson is still popular worldwide for some strange reason... probably the same reason that Hulk Hogan and the Rock are popular. All talk no action.

*edit* Sorry, I have big fingers, but I fixed the spelling for you.
Anyway, if you doubt he's still popular, do a google search on his name and see how many pages in how many different countries show up. (from UK to Japan to China and including small countries like Chile. I'd think that was pretty popular.

*edit*

 

[ThePresence]

<< Mike Tysin is still popular worldwide for some strange reason >>



Yep. So popular that you cant even spell his name right. Talk about name recognition.

 

[Imdmn04]

<<
Tiger Woods is getting kinda popular even with people who don't watch golf. Mike Tysin is still popular worldwide for some strange reason... probably the same reason that Hulk Hogan and the Rock are popular. All talk no action. >>



WWF wrestlers arent sports stars, they are actors Even with the major popularity they have, they are nowhere near as popular as Jordan. Believe it or not, even though Tiger Wood is making more money than Jordan, he still isnt as popular. popular is when your grandma and grandpas knows the person and they dont even understand nor care about the sport the guy is playing. This is the kind of recognition he will get in China, except that he will be recognized by 1.2 billion people.

 

[Desturel]

<<

<< Mike Tysin is still popular worldwide for some strange reason >>



Yep. So popular that you cant even spell his name right. Talk about name recognition. >>



Sorry about that. Small Keyboard. Anyeay, you just proved my point. It seems like you could tell who I was talking about even when I spelled it wrong.

 

[MadRat]

O-P-P-R-E-S-S-I-O-N

G-R-E-E-D

B-R-I-B-E-R-Y

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