China's New Stealth Fighter

calyco

Senior member
Oct 7, 2004
825
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/13/world/asia/china-stealth-fighter-analysis/

The FC-31's flight routine shows that it "bleeds" too much energy -- so when it enters into a turn it begins to lose altitude. Even during straight and level flight the pilot has to engage the engine's afterburners in order to keep the aircraft from sinking to a lower altitude. These are defects in the aircraft's aerodynamic design that a Russian design team would not have made.

Prob still long ways to go before they catch up :)

Zhuhai, Guangdong Province (CNN) -- Zhuhai's Air Show has always been a venue for surprises, usually first-time showings of advanced Chinese military hardware.
China's pathologically secretive defense industry normally shows nothing official of its weapons programs to anyone, which makes the biennial Zhuhai expo the only chance to see what its weapons makers have been up to.

Much has been written in the past few years about China's defense sector developing increasingly more capable weapons systems that approach the capability of their U.S. and European analogues.

Some Chinese weapons, such as a full range of anti-ship and air-to-surface missiles, seem to show that its military -- the People's Liberation Army (PLA) -- is equipped to challenge U.S. Navy carrier battle groups and potentially deny the U.S. the ability to operate in certain areas of the Pacific. But questions remain about how battle-ready the PLA is and whether it can function in a modern, network-centric warfare environment.

Battlefield autonomy

Today's battlefield operates on the premise that autonomy should be pushed down to the lowest level -- even down to the man in the field -- because time is of the essence. Getting inside of the enemy's "decision loop" is the key to victory. But, giving individual units the ability to make their own tactical decisions without their orders being delivered from several layers up the chain of command is an anathema to the "control uber alles" mentality of the Chinese leadership.

In terms of new weapons, the number one attraction at Zhuhai this year was the new Shenyang FC-31 fighter. It has generated a good deal of excitement as it's the first time a new Chinese military aircraft has been unveiled while still in the early stages of development -- we usually have to wait until after they start serving in the PLA's air force.

The FC-31 is designed to look like a stealth fighter aircraft in the class of the American Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. It is also the second, but smaller, stealth-type design to be developed by China. The FC-31's "Big Brother," the Chengdu J-20, first flew in January 2011 but has been shrouded in secrecy ever since.

The FC-31 "looks" stealthy and its shape mimics that of the F-35 in some respects. But it is impossible to tell just how successful the Shenyang design team has been in developing an aircraft with a low radar cross section without knowing the materials used, the placement of the engines inside the aircraft, and how well the heat signature from the engines has been suppressed by the design of the exhaust nozzle section.

Flawed design?

Like other PLAAF fighter aircraft, the FC-31 is powered by Russian-made jet engines, in this case two Klimov RD-93 models, which are a specialized variant of the same engine that powers the famous Mikoyan "MiG-29." There have been rumors that a team of renegade designers from the Mikoyan bureau in Moscow assisted Shenyang in the development of the aircraft, but a senior MiG official stated "no, as far as I know they [the Chinese] completed this design themselves, and they seem to have done a good job on their own."

The MiG official may be correct. An aircraft of this type designed with Russian assistance would probably perform better.

The FC-31's flight routine shows that it "bleeds" too much energy -- so when it enters into a turn it begins to lose altitude. Even during straight and level flight the pilot has to engage the engine's afterburners in order to keep the aircraft from sinking to a lower altitude. These are defects in the aircraft's aerodynamic design that a Russian design team would not have made.

Western aerospace analysts point out that the FC-31 flown at Zhuhai is a "clean" jet in that it is not armed, which means that an aircraft configured for a real mission and fitted with weapons would be even heavier and would perform even worse.

Timing a coincidence?

So, why has the PLAAF chosen to exhibit an aircraft that is either overweight, underpowered or both?

It could be an oblique signal to Washington timed to coincide with President Barack Obama's visit to Beijing for the APEC summit. The underlying message: "China is stronger than you think."

This would not be the first such example of China trying to use its defense industry to flex its muscles. In January 2011, when the J-20 first flew, then-U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates was in Beijing for an official visit. His read was that the timing of the two events was in no way coincidental.

Unfortunately for the PLA, the gesture falls flat.

Many would have been more impressed by the FC-31 in photos posted on Chinese websites than after seeing it actually fly at the air show.

Looks can be deceiving, as they say.
 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
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which means that an aircraft configured for a real mission and fitted with weapons would be even heavier and would perform even worse.

And then in real combat situation.... the stress, the inexperience, the lack of skill, the lack of will to fight, lack of coordination with others... and so on.... = disaster!!!


Just like the old saying...driving a fast looking car =! make you a championship driver.
 
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MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
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Meets a F-15K.

120146024C6906F031F043


"WTF is that ?"

*pop*
 
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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,429
3,213
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I'm not surprised. Going from copying Russian jets (and still buying russian engines in most cases) doesn't give you the base to suddenly build world beating fighters as these are alleged to be.
 

Karl Agathon

Golden Member
Sep 30, 2010
1,081
0
0
The biggest thieves in the world... but much worse than that though. This is the slow rise of the next near equivalent to Nazi Germany.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
Probably right,A-10's, F-18s and F-15, and F-16's would have been just perfectly fine a long time now, DOD should be working on UAVs rather then the F-35 these days.

Have an overabundance of "high tech" planes these days, Ospreys should never have been made IMHO, they are a huge waste of tax dollars.

Lots of money down the tubes rather than making drone fighter planes to be honest to me, in the future they would be able to pull way more G's and etc.

F-35 is a big waste of money to me, and I have done a lot of aerospace over the years.
 
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trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,802
8,380
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Keeping up with your neighbors' F22's, Zumwalt destroyers and whatever else DARPA has cooking up in the back room has got to be a nightmare for the Chinese....and Russians for that matter.

But, if it weren't for the Chinese and Russians engaging us in that "endless spiral of escalation" game we're forever involved in, we'd "probably" be nowhere near as advanced as we are now.

So in that regard, I can at the least give our rivals a backhanded compliment or two for keeping us forging ahead technology-wise.


Upon reflecting on this issue, I have to say that I sure am enjoying the technological by-products of this race.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
You all are missing the point with the J-31 stealth fighter. China stole everything from Lockheed after hacking RSA and acquiring encryption keys.

So what if the plane is not effective on combat. The Chinese know all about what electronic countermeasures the U.S. version uses. They know the tech behind the weapons systems. I don't imagine it will be too long before they are selling counter measures to Iran or Syria.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
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The Chinese has a long way to go before they can match us.

Maybe in 30 years?
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,672
136
My Jet is bigger than your Jet!
My Jet can beat up your Jet!

I need to know these things so I can feel better about being an American!

Meanwhile
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
Keeping up with your neighbors' F22's, Zumwalt destroyers and whatever else DARPA has cooking up in the back room has got to be a nightmare for the Chinese....and Russians for that matter.

But, if it weren't for the Chinese and Russians engaging us in that "endless spiral of escalation" game we're forever involved in, we'd "probably" be nowhere near as advanced as we are now.

So in that regard, I can at the least give our rivals a backhanded compliment or two for keeping us forging ahead technology-wise.


Upon reflecting on this issue, I have to say that I sure am enjoying the technological by-products of this race.

Quite so. In a way, we can thank the Russians that we got to the moon.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,901
4,927
136
China is using a new weapon. A weapon so powerful and so stealthy that the toll it is taking on America is massive and hardly anyone in Washington is the wiser.

g9Vgw99.jpg


Economics.
 
Dec 10, 2005
28,739
13,904
136
Is this another paper-airplane they're touting which we'll hear or see nothing else about it in 2 years?
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
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i'd like to see it in a fight with iran's stealth fighter
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
China is using a new weapon. A weapon so powerful and so stealthy that the toll it is taking on America is massive and hardly anyone in Washington is the wiser.

g9Vgw99.jpg


Economics.


This, America's weakness is greed and it's constant chase of the cheapest at the expense of everything else, the Chinese just happen to be the ones exploiting it.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,352
47,606
136
Probably right,A-10's, F-18s and F-15, and F-16's would have been just perfectly fine a long time now, DOD should be working on UAVs rather then the F-35 these days.

Have an overabundance of "high tech" planes these days, Ospreys should never have been made IMHO, they are a huge waste of tax dollars.

Lots of money down the tubes rather than making drone fighter planes to be honest to me, in the future they would be able to pull way more G's and etc.

F-35 is a big waste of money to me, and I have done a lot of aerospace over the years.


You done "a lot of aerospace over the years" ,yet you think that designs from the 70s are going to be able to survive in any future conflict involving modern SAM technology from Russia and China? lol ok

I do feel you are correct in your view on drones, but these claims I keep hearing of America's supremacy in the skies where even our older stuff is a match for 5th gen fighters and interceptors are just ridiculous. The Russians in particular are currently outclassing us in air-to-air weapons, and have achieved parity or supremacy regarding detection systems. They've mitigated the shoot first advantage Raptor has already, supposedly. The middle of a war is no time to play catch up, and air supremacy is so vital that once you lose it you might not get it back.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,352
47,606
136
Keeping up with your neighbors' F22's, Zumwalt destroyers and whatever else DARPA has cooking up in the back room has got to be a nightmare for the Chinese....and Russians for that matter.

But, if it weren't for the Chinese and Russians engaging us in that "endless spiral of escalation" game we're forever involved in, we'd "probably" be nowhere near as advanced as we are now.

So in that regard, I can at the least give our rivals a backhanded compliment or two for keeping us forging ahead technology-wise.


Upon reflecting on this issue, I have to say that I sure am enjoying the technological by-products of this race.



Quite so. As they say, 'Necessity is the mother of invention. War is the father.' ;)
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
136
So many resources spend on useless tools for an insecure world. God, when will we give it up and just work together? Too primitive for that still.
If we worked together, we could have a global mars base in 20 years. But no, we won't do that. It seems its a better idea to waste brains, money and material making sure we can kill each other efficiently.
This war shit is getting old. Its stupid now.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
So many resources spend on useless tools for an insecure world. God, when will we give it up and just work together? Too primitive for that still.
If we worked together, we could have a global mars base in 20 years. But no, we won't do that. It seems its a better idea to waste brains, money and material making sure we can kill each other efficiently.
This war shit is getting old. Its stupid now.
First of all, how many times have I asked you not to address me by my first name in public???

Second of all, if the world would just hold hands and sing Kum Ba Ya there would be no more wars!!