China's 5th generation fighter J-20A in service

[Darwin333]

So now China is now the 2nd country to develop, test and produce a 5th generation fighter jet. Granted more than 2 countries will be fielding 5th generation fighters since we are exporting the F-35 but the Chinese seem to be catching up/getting better at keeping up with military technology. They don't have the huge aircraft carriers or anything but I think at least for right now their military goals are more geared toward expanding its local influence further into the South China Sea versus projecting power on the other side of the globe. If they can realistically deny the US access to the South China Sea or simply make it way to costly to do so, they can pretty much do whatever they want. Are we really willing to lose a supercarrier to fight in the South China Sea?

According to a Chinese military spokesman, China's first stealth fighter, the Chengdu J-20, has officially entered service with the People's Liberation Army Air Force. First revealed in 2011, the J-20 is only the third stealth fighter to enter service with any air force, after the F-22A Raptor and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a28436/chinas-stealth-fighter-is-operational/

 

[nutxo]

They aren't catching up, they are stealing technology.

 

[Mai72]

My guess is they are about 20 years behind USA, but make no mistake. They are rapidly catching up. Their military hasn't been in a war in many years, so I don't think they would do well in a full confrontation with us. We've been in the middle east for over 10 years. Our enemies were totally outmatched though Who knows.

A war in the SE Asian seas would be very costly for us, and for China as well. Trump isn't making it easier. If things got ugly with China could we get the support of SK or Japan? That's not going to happen if Trump keep alienating our allies. Also, wars are very unpredictable. There is a possibility that we could lose. What then? Britain was much more powerful than us, and they lost. They had the military, the weaponry, the technology, the ships, etc. They still lost.

 

[Elixer]

They aren't catching up, they are stealing technology.

Pretty much...
They do slightly improve some stuff, but, it usually is an exact clone.

 

[urvile]

So now China is now the 2nd country to develop, test and produce a 5th generation fighter jet. Granted more than 2 countries will be fielding 5th generation fighters since we are exporting the F-35 but the Chinese seem to be catching up/getting better at keeping up with military technology. They don't have the huge aircraft carriers or anything but I think at least for right now their military goals are more geared toward expanding its local influence further into the South China Sea versus projecting power on the other side of the globe. If they can realistically deny the US access to the South China Sea or simply make it way to costly to do so, they can pretty much do whatever they want. Are we really willing to lose a supercarrier to fight in the South China Sea?






http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a28436/chinas-stealth-fighter-is-operational/

They already have. They have an airbase on one of their artificial islands there that can house and launch over 70 fighters/bombers. They have been building up other bases in that area on naturally occurring islands as well. They have been doing it for years. China have been modernising their military for years also and guess who's funding it? They do steal a lot of technology though it's a deliberate part of their strategy.

They installed advanced surface to air missile systems on that island a while ago too. There is nothing the US or anyone else can do about it other than "freedom of navigation" exercises. The chinese aren't half arseing this. They have clearly been thinking about it for a while.

 

[Darwin333]

Pretty much...
They do slightly improve some stuff, but, it usually is an exact clone.

Smarter than spending the money developing it yourself if it nets you the same results... I'm not on their side or rooting for them, just saying...

 

[Darwin333]

They already have. They have an airbase on one of their artificial islands there that can house and launch over 70 fighters/bombers. They have been building up other bases in that area on naturally occurring islands as well. They have been doing it for years. China have been modernising their military for years also and guess who's funding it? They do steal a lot of technology though it's a deliberate part of their strategy.

They installed advanced surface to air missile systems on that island a while ago too. There is nothing the US or anyone else can do about it other than "freedom of navigation" exercises. The chinese aren't half arseing this. They have clearly been thinking about it for a while.

That is pretty much my point, if they decide to take the entire South China Sea as their own and even beyond that what can we do to help our regional allies whose territory just got stolen?

 

[urvile]

That is pretty much my point, if they decide to take the entire South China Sea as their own and even beyond that what can we do to help our regional allies whose territory just got stolen?

It's a tricky situation dude. The problem is that it's happened. I am indifferent to it really. New boss same as the old boss. China are in a unique situation due to the fact that they manufacture just about everything and are huge!

As to what can be done? Nothing at this point china haven't committed an act of war by seizing the territory of another country. So what is there to do? Aus sails some warships through there and we also fly some p3-orions through there. The US does something similar as do other countries I imagine. It's about showing the chinese that we can traverse that water way if we like and they can jam their ADIZ up there collectives arses.

It's a very strategically important water way too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identification_Zone_(East_China_Sea)

http://thediplomat.com/2016/09/south-china-sea-the-case-against-an-adiz/

 

[spacejamz]

When the shit hits the fan, it is more than just the plane that will matter...having trained and experienced pilots, ground crews who can keep the planes ready and flying, tactics and planning and are just some stuff that comes to mind...not sure how China would do here, especially in the early days of a shooting war...

 

[edcoolio]

China has a brand new fighter for which they cannot even produce their own engines.

I doubt the fighter itself is very "stealthy". Have a look at the undercarriage, very blocky. A nice first attempt, but there is no way this is a true 5th generation fighter. Maybe 4.5

They have a long way to go to even catch up to the Russians... much less the Americans.

 

[John Connor]

They aren't catching up, they are stealing technology.

HAHA. Just like how asshole Pakistan allowed them to view our crashed stealth chopper after the Osama raid. No one knew such a helicopter existed. God only knows what else Area-51 has or is working on. 5th generation? We are probably on a 8th generation.

 

[gorobei]

given how many problems the US is having getting the f35 to work, do you really think china is somehow getting it perfect on their first try?

like the pak-fa this is seemingly only stealthy from the front, and would be severely handicapped in a blind 1v1 without some sort of ground guidance or home field advantage. true gen5 combat will look more like a submarine fight than a dogfight. where just figuring out what direction and altitude to look will be a major challenge.

the main threat china possesses are long range antiship missles. the j20 is a way to get those missles closer to target so there is less reaction time to use anti missile defenses.

if they arent bothering to maintain 360deg stealth, then it isnt meant to be an air superiority fighter.

 

[John Connor]

I know at Edwards AFB they are working on hyper sonic missiles. With any luck we'll beat the Chinese and the Russians. Then we can use that technology to knock out other hyper sonic missiles. I would love for it to be used to knock out ballistic missiles.

Interesting. http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a27384/us-australia-hypersonic-missile-test/

 

[JEDIYoda]

Mind you China has just a lone as in single Jet Fighter....lolol

 

[Darwin333]

given how many problems the US is having getting the f35 to work, do you really think china is somehow getting it perfect on their first try?

It's not like they just starting developing and building it, it has been in the works since 1990 and they are a lot more tight-lipped about their military testing than we are. They could very well have experienced all of the same problems and fixed them. I don't recall hearing about all of the same development problems on the F-22 which was our first 5th gen fighter.

like the pak-fa this is seemingly only stealthy from the front, and would be severely handicapped in a blind 1v1 without some sort of ground guidance or home field advantage. true gen5 combat will look more like a submarine fight than a dogfight. where just figuring out what direction and altitude to look will be a major challenge.

the main threat china possesses are long range antiship missles. the j20 is a way to get those missles closer to target so there is less reaction time to use anti missile defenses.

if they arent bothering to maintain 360deg stealth, then it isnt meant to be an air superiority fighter.

Well so far their entire military strategy has been around having home-field advantage. The extent of their desire to project power would be to deny foreign warships access to the South China Sea.

 

[Darwin333]

Mind you China has just a lone as in single Jet Fighter....lolol

What do you mean by that?

 

[spacejamz]

wow...china is cloning the B2 Stealth bomber as well...WTF???

http://www.kiwireport.com/chinese-superweapons-changing-regional-balance/11/

 

[Alpha One Seven]

So now China is now the 2nd country to develop, test and produce a 5th generation fighter jet. Granted more than 2 countries will be fielding 5th generation fighters since we are exporting the F-35 but the Chinese seem to be catching up/getting better at keeping up with military technology. They don't have the huge aircraft carriers or anything but I think at least for right now their military goals are more geared toward expanding its local influence further into the South China Sea versus projecting power on the other side of the globe. If they can realistically deny the US access to the South China Sea or simply make it way to costly to do so, they can pretty much do whatever they want. Are we really willing to lose a supercarrier to fight in the South China Sea?






http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a28436/chinas-stealth-fighter-is-operational/

Absolutely willing to use whatever it takes. Machines of War and soldiers were made to be used and if need be, used up.
It's the nature of the game.

 

[John Connor]

wow...china is cloning the B2 Stealth bomber as well...WTF???

http://www.kiwireport.com/chinese-superweapons-changing-regional-balance/11/

That's not a Chinese copy. Not by a long shot. On the left wing there is an Air Force decal and the image comes from here: https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/b-2-spirits-fly-far-to-deter-north-korea/

 

[spacejamz]

That's not a Chinese copy. Not by a long shot. On the left wing there is an Air Force decal and the image comes from here: https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/b-2-spirits-fly-far-to-deter-north-korea/

after researching further, that link I provided is a bit misleading...the Chinese version won't be ready until 2025 apparently but they are making a clone of the B2...

 

[John Connor]

HAHA. I don't see how they can "clone" the B-2. That is a very classified bird. If they did make some sort of low visibility bomber, it more than likely won't be anything like the B-2. And besides, the B-2 is at least 28 years old already. We more than likely went mach speed with bombers and they haven't even shown us yet just like past aircraft.

 

[JEDIYoda]

What do you mean by that?

Read the article........They have only made one of those jet fighters....lol

 

[Smoblikat]

My guess is they are about 20 years behind USA, but make no mistake. They are rapidly catching up. Their military hasn't been in a war in many years, so I don't think they would do well in a full confrontation with us. We've been in the middle east for over 10 years. Our enemies were totally outmatched though Who knows.

A war in the SE Asian seas would be very costly for us, and for China as well. Trump isn't making it easier. If things got ugly with China could we get the support of SK or Japan? That's not going to happen if Trump keep alienating our allies. Also, wars are very unpredictable. There is a possibility that we could lose. What then? Britain was much more powerful than us, and they lost. They had the military, the weaponry, the technology, the ships, etc. They still lost.

They lost to us. specifically us.

 

[Darwin333]

Absolutely willing to use whatever it takes. Machines of War and soldiers were made to be used and if need be, used up.
It's the nature of the game.

Yeah well Supercarriers don't grow on trees, they are the most expensive war machine ever created and probably take at least a decade to build and put in service with over 5,000 Americans serving on board. We have 11 of them with half of them always in port, right now 6 are in port, so that gives us 5 or 6 to project power around the globe. Losing even one would be catastrophic and if they can take out one then they can take out the replacement we send or start picking off its support vessels. They also have really cheap and fast missile boats that can fire 8 anti-ship missiles each, a bunch of those could very easily overwhelm all of our anti-missile defenses while putting very little of their hardware and crew at risk.

I seriously doubt that the American public, or our leaders, have the stomach to start losing carriers to fight in the South China Sea...

 

[Darwin333]

HAHA. I don't see how they can "clone" the B-2. That is a very classified bird. If they did make some sort of low visibility bomber, it more than likely won't be anything like the B-2. And besides, the B-2 is at least 28 years old already. We more than likely went mach speed with bombers and they haven't even shown us yet just like past aircraft.

Well it is believed that they hacked into somewhere and were able to steal a ton of classified information about the F-35 which is far more valuable than any info on the B-2, like you said it's old as hell.