China . . .

[stratman]

I am amazed at this thread.

Originally posted by: Proletariat
China will attack us at some point.

Their whole philosophy is that of the 'Middle Kingdom'. They believe they have sovereign right to the world.

Your second statement is (IMO) false, and your third statement has nothing to do with the second, and is false.

From Wikipedia: "The Chinese call their country Zhongguo, which is usually translated as "Middle Kingdom", but perhaps could also be translated as, "Central State". It literally means "middle (or centre) land," referring to the historic position of China at the centre of her known world, surrounded by lesser tributary states." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China)

It's just the name of their country, not part of some imperialistic philosophy.

The anti-Japanese riots that swept China in April? That would be psychological warfare against a major Asian rival.

They had anti-Japanese protests in South Korea too. Those riots didn't simply happen because the regime in China is belligerent. There are some DEEP wounds in the Chinese (and Korean) psyche still.

The bid by the state-owned China National Offshore Oil Co., to acquire Unocal? Resource warfare.

Or, trying to acquire assets through accepted, legal, peaceful means.

Attempts by China's spy apparatus to infiltrate U.S. high-tech firms and defense contractors? Technological warfare

If America's spy apparatus isn't trying to infiltrate Chinese technology firms and military research centers, it's not doing it's job. Israel has obtained American military secrets through spying. Every country (in it's right mind) does it. Every country also tries to protect it's own secrets, but lets not pretend that China is even close to being alone in trying to obtain American military secrets. I bet even Canada has a few active spies in the USA.

China siding against the U.S. in the U.N. Security Council over the invasion of Iraq? International law warfare.

And France siding against the U.S. in the U.N. Security Council over the invasion of Iraq? Is that also warfare?

Canada didn't support invading Iraq. Is this warfare? Or can't two parties disagree civily over an issue like adults?

Gen. Zhu's threat to nuke the U.S.? Media warfare.

It was a stupid thing to say, but was more accurately the threat of nuclear war should the U.S. bomb China. Not warfare, the threat of severe retaliation.


You can call anything warfare to try to get people riled up. You can call diplomacy warfare, but it doesn't change the meaning of diplomacy. It only creates a sensational label, farther from the original word's meaning.

Originally posted by: Zebo
1. They hate us down to the man on the street. Proof?

We witnessed an overwhelmingly negative response from the Chinese community worldwide and especially from those inside China, including reports of students taking to the streets and cheering after the terrorist attacks. For many of the Chinese scholars overseas, that sight was very disturbing. After a careful analysis, they found that a major reason for the negative reaction was because of the long-term Anti American propaganda from the Chinese Communist Party.

http://www.ntdtv.com/xtr/eng/aReadArticle.jsp?id=27491

My cousin (white guy) just got back from China. He was never treated poorly because of his race or citizenship. He certainly didn't experience cultural hate.

2. They are building a hyper "defence" apparatus. You think thier "space" program is about getting a man to that worthless rock 36 years after us?

I think there space program is about pride (like ours was), showing that China is a serious world power.

3. They have enabled, plotted and supplied our defeat in two wars. Veitnam and NK.

They gave military aid to their allies. We would've done the same.

4. They steal everything that is not locked down from us and our I.P. means nothing.

What do they steal from us? Your average Chinese person does steal IP like crazy though, you are right. But when the average civil engineer in China makes $163 per month, it is kind of rediculous to demand they pay $100 for Windows XP, when they can just copy for free from a friend. If you had a choice of burning a copy of WinXP for your friend, allowing him to spend two thirds of month's salary on food for his kids, you'd burn him a copy in a heartbeat.

5. Philisophically we are exact opposites, they are RED, dictators, anti freedom, anti democracy, anti religion and purge or "cleanse" those who arn't.

They need to come a long way on their human rights, definately. But human rights conditions are many many many times better now in China than they were ten years ago because of their improved economy. Sanctions will ruin their improved economy and be worse for human rights in China than their government is.

6. And of course the economic stuff mentioned in this thread.

But that economic stuff mentioned in the thread has had the byproduct of lifting 100+ million over the poverty line in China in the last decade. Isn't this a good thing?

It's not "if" but "when" are we going to have war with them.

I hope I never see the day of armed conflict between China and the U.S. It benefits nobody.

I consider our politicians traders for enableing them and pushing this "free trade" BS on Americans all for the dollars of the elites who really owns them. Most Americans truly believe this trade to be benficial and that China will just just all of sudden someday turn around, turn blue, and be our freind so I don't hold anything against thier naivete... most people have to learn the hard way.

China has been becoming more blue, more capitalistic over the last decade. Chinese free enterprise has increased by leaps and bounds recently. And you're pro-blue but anti-free trade? So you're a socialist? The fact is, this free trade has helped the average Chinese person out immensly, and is a fiscally conservative policy. People aren't expecting that it will suddenly happen: it's already happening.

I apologize if this post doesn't make sense in some places, and I apologize profusely if my post is inflammatory in any way. I respect all of you very much (especially you Zebo cause you're a genius and you help people all the time and show me which procs are the best bang for the buck ) So yeah, you guys can still rip this post apart and stuff, I just wanna make sure noone takes anything I said personally, you guys are the bomb. I'm tired, it's time for sleep, no time to proofread

 

[Promethply]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Promethply
Where's the CIA when we need them; they should be busying themselves trying to stir up rebellion amongst the discontented and various minorities in China. Aren't we still the champion when it comes to clandestine operations anymore? This way we can make it seem like as if it's a popular revolt against the Chinese government, just like we've done in the past in many places successfully, including in Latin America, and Southeast Asia.

That was Plames next assignment before they outed her. Seriously, real hard to infiltrate that society.. We can't even get into terrorist cells whose countries are much freer and you don't have to be "connected" to the party to rise though the ranks.

Yeah, well, we didn't have to infiltrate Indonesia to have Suharto take over from Sukarno in one of the bloodiest coup in history. For sure some high-ranking people in China can be bought, just like Suharto was.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

The big question is,

Do they take Taiwan during or after the Olympics?

 

[WalkingDead]

Again, WD's world history 101 lessons:

Originally posted by: Zebo
America's never surrendered in any war but our objectives failed, meaning lost, in large part to Chineese doing. You don't consider it a win, do ya? Or is it a stalemate like when our spy-plane got shot at, stripped but at least the navy personel were returned?

CIA and India tried that in the late 1950 with Tibet, which led to India got its ares kicked and they still biiiitching about it to this day. Our spy plane hangin' in their air space and landed on their island and it's somehow their fault.

Or we can always help India develop their nuclear programme further to keep China busy, while we keep slapping them (China) with human rights allegations across their face.

Yes and NK and Iran will get ICBM overnight just like what Pakistan did. Of course the neo-con and yindu will biiiitching about it one way or the other.

 

[Chinadefender]

Let?s see how evil guys like Zebo and Promethply are in the blood desire for arrogance, envy, suspicion and hatred

Thank God at least these two guys are still peanuts.

 

[Necrolezbeast]

The only worry China gives me is the economy in World Of Warcraft. With all these Chinese farmer guilds they are ruining the economy of the game

I agree with the man that said China needs us as much as we need them. For them to keep their economy rising they will have to continue business with the Western worlds, including America.

 

[irwincur]

There is clearly no real incentive for China to attack the US. As a matter of fact, with free trade and world trading zones growing, the general threat of war anywhere is being reduced.

Trading partners almost never go to war with eachother. Plus, they have a McDonalds - no two countries that are home to a McDonalds frachise have ever gone to war. Proof that the dollar (or euro, or yen, or etc...) is greater than the sword.

 

[HombrePequeno]

I think that China will marginalize our importance in the world in the coming decades. Right now they aren't much of a threat simply because we aren't competing in the same sectors; they do manufacturing and textiles, we do higher technological work. As the wages rise in China, manufacturing will switch to a cheaper country(s) and they will be forced to invest into technological firms. They'll have tech products that can be made for cheaper than we can do because their wages won't be on par with ours for quite a while. I can see the same thing happening with India, as well. It will all come down to which country is the most business friendly.

 

[Cerb]

Heck, I figured out China was going to be our next opponent just beginning high school.
Not too hard, given how much of our economy they've got (and getting more), and how they love to crack down on their peoples' freedoms.

The problem right now is that one or or another, they will get Taiwan. Economically, it is too important for them to let sit by itself.

When they do get Taiwan, they will have everything they need to have our dollar by the balls (they're close, now).

Serious conflict between us and them would be pretty bad. They are about the only country that might be able to really beat us in a war.

So, defend Taiwan, or allow China to do as it will, and end up doing OK? Hopefully China will wait until '09, at least .

 

[Legend]

Hey, their economy is growing at a 9.5% clip. They must be doing something right. Perhaps we should work to imitate them?

But then consider we have a larger economy with 1/4 the people.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

Originally posted by: Legend

Hey, their economy is growing at a 9.5% clip. They must be doing something right. Perhaps we should work to imitate them?

But then consider we have a larger economy with 1/4 the people.

But we're 7 trillion dollars in debt

 

[Zebo]

You misspelled n00b.