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China to their bitch... "no new jets for Taiwan"

rudder

rudder

Lifer
U.S . To Deny Taiwan New F-16 Fighters

http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=7378123&c=ASI&s=AIR

Although many systems will be upgraded... the engines won't. The article doesn't say how much of a performance hit the F-16 will take.

So it sounds like an okay deal.. however Lockheed martin will put a damper on their plans for continuing the F-16 production line. And Taiwan has been an ally... but do you think they will come back to the U.S. for their next generation of fighter or look for a European brand? Taiwan has an aging fleet of F-5 aircraft they wanted to replace.

Lets not devolve into an Us vs. Them thread. These have been denied 3 times by the U.S. government since 2006. Score another one for China.
 
China: nominally communist country, zero respect for human rights, promotes hacking attacks, steals intellectual property of everyone, non-elected government.
Taiwan: democracy, human rights, voting, elected government.

So which one do our politicians slap on the kneepads for?

D:
 
MotF Bane said:
China: nominally communist country, zero respect for human rights, promotes hacking attacks, steals intellectual property of everyone, non-elected government.
Taiwan: democracy, human rights, voting, elected government.

So which one do our politicians slap on the kneepads for?

D:
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Probably the one that has given the most donations to election funds.
 
Ausm said:
I thought we were China's bitch??
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from the first line of the linked article:

Bowing to Chinese pressure, the U.S. will deny Taiwan's request for 66 new F-16C/D fighter aircraft, a Taiwan Ministry of National Defense (MND) official said.
 
Reading the article it sounds like they will be modestly upgrading the engines under the guise of "replacing obsolete parts". Taiwan knows to take these developments in stride, it's only a matter of time until China does something to piss the US off and they get sold something really nice like Harpoons, AIM-120s, Patriot PAC-3s they have received recently. China was REALLY unhappy about the Harpoons (some of which have supposedly been fitted to their diesel subs) and the Patriot systems.
 
Keeping in mind that deception is one of the most important aspects of warfare that Sun Tzu himself ascribed to in his treatise, I'm more interested in what the Taiwanese have gotten from the US that the Chinese know nothing about, what the Chinese suspect the US is secretly passing on to the Taiwanese and what the Chinese are doing to counter their perceived notions on that matter.
 
tweaker2 said:
Keeping in mind that deception is one of the most important aspects of warfare that Sun Tzu himself ascribed to in his treatise, I'm more interested in what the Taiwanese have gotten from the US that the Chinese know nothing about, what the Chinese suspect the US is secretly passing on to the Taiwanese and what the Chinese are doing to counter their perceived notions on that matter.
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'hey if china attacks you, we'll crash our economy'
 
a777pilot said:
Well let's play the numbers game, shall we?

Just how many tens of millions of its own people did the Communists kill at the direction of Mao? Maybe 30 million could be as high as 50 million. Yup, great people these Chinese communist ruling class.
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Karl Agathon said:
Red China is an enemy of the United States.
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I agree with both of you. Red China IS an enemy, not only of the USA, but of its own people. Communism only survives by keeping the people under the boot heel...and controlled by force.

My point was that the Republic of China, Taiwan, is also well known for human rights abuses...they're not some "shining snowflake of purity" in these areas...
 
It's a mistake.

China furiously opposes any sale of arms to Taiwan, including last year's $6.3 billion sale of U.S. arms to Taiwan. Big deal, let 'em gripe. At the rate of current Chinese military development and expansion we need to counterbalance their sphere of influence in the area.

47 Senators pushed the White House to release the jets in a letter. They're right. While America remains the guarantor of Taiwan's security, Taipei still needs capabilities to fend for itself. China not only wants to weaken Taiwan, but also prompt Washington's allies in Asia to question whether America will be there for them in times of crisis. An emboldened Beijing may decide tomorrow that it doesn't want America selling military equipment to other regional allies like Japan, Australia, South Korea and others.

The sale could have been a way to reassure governments who have questioned the U.S. commitment to the region and to remind Beijing that old alliances will not be traded away to appease a bigger trading partner. When the US fails to support her allies, the world takes notice.
 
The Europeans aren't eager to anger China either, so Taiwan can't buy the Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab Gripen, or Daussault Rafale jet fighters.
 
cwjerome said:
An emboldened Beijing may decide tomorrow that it doesn't want America selling military equipment to other regional allies like Japan, Australia, South Korea and others.
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Taiwan is one thing, but I highly doubt the U.S. would every stop selling to those countries, especially Japan. China Can't force the U.S. to stop selling to Japan. Speaking of Japan, as far as I'm concerned, They should reverse their constitiution and go nuclear deterent against the ever increasing belligerence of Red China. I guess thats another thread for another day.
 
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We need to back out of the treaty with Taiwan ASAP. If China wants it back, let them have it.

BTW, anyone seeing this as a sign of US weakness regarding China is fooling themselves. Our military is still unmatched, with MAD always on the table. I'm not sure if some of the kids around here know how things like this work, but there was probably a back-room deal with them where we benefited as well.

People are so caught up in this China thing it is almost like a bad meme that won't go away. They are a rising economic and military power, but this is a little over-blown.
 
OCGuy said:
We need to back out of the treaty with Taiwan ASAP. If China wants it back, let them have it.

BTW, anyone seeing this as a sign of US weakness regarding China is fooling themselves. Our military is still unmatched, with MAD always on the table. I'm not sure if some of the kids around here know how things like this work, but there was probably a back-room deal with them where we benefited as well.

People are so caught up in this China thing it is almost like a bad meme that won't go away. They are a rising economic and military power, but this is a little over-blown.
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Meh, Taiwan will get their hardware. This is just a temporary setback. Taiwan is one of the few military relationships where we put our money where our mouth is. We'd be hypocrites to espouse liberty and let Taiwan fall to military invasion by the Chinese.
 
MovingTarget said:
Meh, Taiwan will get their hardware. This is just a temporary setback. Taiwan is one of the few military relationships where we put our money where our mouth is. We'd be hypocrites to espouse liberty and let Taiwan fall to military invasion by the Chinese.
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We don't need to "espouse liberty" halfway around the world anymore.

It is a all smoke and bluster...we would never fully come to Taiwan's aid if China crossed the straight.

I don't know about you, but I am not OK with nuclear winter due to some fluffy idea of "espousing liberty."
 
MovingTarget said:
Meh, Taiwan will get their hardware. This is just a temporary setback. Taiwan is one of the few military relationships where we put our money where our mouth is. We'd be hypocrites to espouse liberty and let Taiwan fall to military invasion by the Chinese.
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Why? Taiwan is not our problem.

I'm one of the few who thinks we should stop ALL foreign aid...take care of the USA first. Since we have such a huge debt, why borrow money to turn around and give it or loan it to another country?
 
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