China to roll out 'social credit' system - Hunger Games Style

[cytg111]

They've been sending teachers who've disagreed with the government to rural areas for years. I guess they missed the historical lesson that every single successful revolution has started from the grass roots.

I am afraid its going to get ugly... Ugly while we are busy fighting of Putins attempts to undermine our alliances and democracy... for what? Vengence? Fuck that guy.

 

[ch33zw1z]

If rampant greed of insurance companies is included in "unhealthy living," I agree.

I'm with ya there. Unfotunately, the socio and psychopaths that harbor such avarice DGAF.

 

[Greenman]

The ideas are often conflated by Republicans, and they beat that straw-man to death, stuff it back up, and have at it, stuff, repeat * infinity

That's all I'll comment on that.

Back to topic, I certainly don't agree with what China is doing. I don't think we're as close to that as some may think.

Health or Life insurers offering incentives or outright refusals based on how Americans choose to live is just the unfortunate side effect of unhealthy living.

It appears that we're well on track to much the same thing. Credit scores have an enormous impact your life, a social media search can cost you a job, an accusation of sexual misconduct can ruin your life. We're rapidly reaching the point where we're to connected, to integrated into an information system that can, and often is, used against us. The net result is probably more positive than negative at this point, but as the connections and the amount of information on each one of us expands, it's bound to be used in ways that will damage us if we're on the wrong side of the equation.

 

[cytg111]

integrated into an information system that can, and often is, used against us. The net result is probably more positive than negative at this point, but as the connections and the amount of information on each one of us expands, it's bound to be used in ways that will damage us if we're on the wrong side of the equation.

Ooooooooooh you hit one of my buttons right there.
True dat.
Also consider why there is not surveillance *everywhere* today? Its because it only has value if a human being is able to shift through the information + privacy laws. With current advancements in deep learning? Goddamn, in 5-10 years expect for sensors to be *everywhere* .. and no worries, no privacy broken, its just am AI shifting through your privates.. not a real person... until you are flagged that is.

 

[ch33zw1z]

It appears that we're well on track to much the same thing. Credit scores have an enormous impact your life, a social media search can cost you a job, an accusation of sexual misconduct can ruin your life. We're rapidly reaching the point where we're to connected, to integrated into an information system that can, and often is, used against us. The net result is probably more positive than negative at this point, but as the connections and the amount of information on each one of us expands, it's bound to be used in ways that will damage us if we're on the wrong side of the equation.

We're still not China. If these items are a concern for you, then simply opt out of them. Don't use social media, don't take out loans, don't treat women in a way to brings on sexual misconduct allegations. For someone who believes in personal responsibility as a political ideology, you sure aren't laying the blame on the consumers of these products.

Did you read the article? Here's just one paragraph of how this is being handled, which I've neither seen of or heard of here in the states:

Along with providing preferential loans, a high Sesame Credit score – which ranges from 350 to 950 – can result in a huge varietyof benefits, like no-deposit apartment and bicycle rentals. While the system is undoubtedly popular, the line between private social credit schemes and the government is being increasingly blurred. China’s supreme court, for example, shares a “blacklist” of people who haven’t paid court fines with Sesame Credit, which in turn deducts users’ scores until they sort out they pay up.

This situation is being directed by a totalitarian style government. If you want to contend that our current direction is on track because Republicans are sending us there full-steam-ahead, I'll agree, but I don't see the U.S.A. making it to China's status before full on implosion of our democracy.

 

[Greenman]

We're still not China. If these items are a concern for you, then simply opt out of them. Don't use social media, don't take out loans, don't treat women in a way to brings on sexual misconduct allegations. For someone who believes in personal responsibility as a political ideology, you sure aren't laying the blame on the consumers of these products.

Did you read the article? Here's just one paragraph of how this is being handled, which I've neither seen of or heard of here in the states:



This situation is being directed by a totalitarian style government. If you want to contend that our current direction is on track because Republicans are sending us there full-steam-ahead, I'll agree, but I don't see the U.S.A. making it to China's status before full on implosion of our democracy.

Interesting that you see this as a party issue, and I see it as a government issue. That's another facet of the problem that I hadn't thought much about. If it's done by the party we agree with, it's fair and just, if it's the other guys, it becomes a crime against humanity.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Interesting that you see this as a party issue, and I see it as a government issue. That's another facet of the problem that I hadn't thought much about. If it's done by the party we agree with, it's fair and just, if it's the other guys, it becomes a crime against humanity.

This mentality is pervasive in our tribal two party system unfortunately.

 

[OutHouse]

China is the best. They will be new superpower, eclipsing the US in about 5 years. They are smarter, more discerning and far less politically compromised by "rural values" than Americans. The only real advantage we have is that Americans are much more willing to fail than the Chinese. With their huge population advantage and single party government they are now able to surpass us.


You better get used to China being number one. You can thank the Republicans for decades of funneling wealth to the rich while ignoring education, infrastructure and the middle class.


I, for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords. My new iPhone XS Max 512GB comes from China on monday, first 7nm computing device on earth.

do you suffer from a mental handicap? why do you worship every country other than the one you live in?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Interesting that you see this as a party issue, and I see it as a government issue. That's another facet of the problem that I hadn't thought much about. If it's done by the party we agree with, it's fair and just, if it's the other guys, it becomes a crime against humanity.

Do you disagree? It's a party issue due to the differences in the parties, I can't change that.

This is a personal responsibility issue more than anything. I've seemed to make it ok by working hard, not over stretching on spending, not using social media. I understand my situation is not everyone's.

I didnt have any revolving credit until this year, yet still managed to acquire a mortgage at a reasonable rate...just after the housing crisis. While my wife and I searched for a lender, it wasn't hard hard to see why the housing market failed so hard. Our first option was the bank we we're with at the time, and they offered us a loan for about 60k more than we could afford on paper, and they wanted us to go with a variable rate mortgage. I'm not some financial genious, not by a long shot, but it's wasn't hard to see how that was just setting us up for failure, so we declines to use them, and kept searching.

Shortly after that, my brother in law (no longer is) got a loan from his bank(possibly a veterans bank?), which he phrased to us as "the bank won't loan us more than we could afford, right? So it's fine". It didn't end well.

Americans have a spending problem, and apparently are bad at math. Fiscal responsibility matters to lenders and employers alike, it says a lot about a person.

Social media is a simple fix, just don't use it.

I also see no reason why insurers would be out of line to push personal responsibility WRT healthy lifestyles. People that make the time for exercise and stick to it getting better rates or perks from insurers should encourage the unhealthy consumers to live a more healthy lifestyle, psuedo free market and all.

I think the bottom line is still that we're not anywhere close to China's status.

Brag edit: revolving credit is due to my first credit card, which I pay the bill in full on each month. Those guys ain't getting an extra dime outta me if I can help it!

 

[UglyCasanova]

wanted us to go with a variable rate mortgage

These are making a comeback. The refi boom is over and it’s a purchase market now. LO's are pushing more people into ARMs which is crazy to me. Interest rates although rising are still very low. I get the rationale behind it but fixed is still they way to go right now (imo).

 

[cytg111]

Interesting that you see this as a party issue, and I see it as a government issue. That's another facet of the problem that I hadn't thought much about. If it's done by the party we agree with, it's fair and just, if it's the other guys, it becomes a crime against humanity.

Holy shit dude. Wake up.

 

[ch33zw1z]

These are making a comeback. The refi boom is over and it’s a purchase market now. LO's are pushing more people into ARMs which is crazy to me. Interest rates although rising are still very low. I get the rationale behind it but fixed is still they way to go right now (imo).

I like the stability of the fixed. Borrowers are under no obligation to go with the adjustable rate. If people start just refusing them enough, lenders will have to respond to the market change. This comes down to having educated and knowledgeable borrowers.

 

[UglyCasanova]

I’m seeing them come through with interest only options and other scary stuff. Not subject to QM rules so they can lend on whatever they want. Haven’t seen stated income but I’ve seen similar. It really is "here we go again"..

 

[mindless1]

An example of a legitimate reason why citizens should be allowed to bear arms.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I’m seeing them come through with interest only options and other scary stuff. Not subject to QM rules so they can lend on whatever they want. Haven’t seen stated income but I’ve seen similar. It really is "here we go again"..

No worries, the next fiscal crisis is brewing, and the filthy rich will up their share by another few hundred percent on the backs of the beaten down. What else are they good for.

 

[Greenman]

Stated income loans were an unbelievable joke. I know a fellow that made $15 an hour and bought a $450k condo with a reverse amortization stated income loan. The reality is that he got to rent a nice condo for half of market rate for five years.

 

[Josephus312]

China is the best. They will be new superpower, eclipsing the US in about 5 years. They are smarter, more discerning and far less politically compromised by "rural values" than Americans. The only real advantage we have is that Americans are much more willing to fail than the Chinese. With their huge population advantage and single party government they are now able to surpass us.


You better get used to China being number one. You can thank the Republicans for decades of funneling wealth to the rich while ignoring education, infrastructure and the middle class.


I, for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords. My new iPhone XS Max 512GB comes from China on monday, first 7nm computing device on earth.

Well your nation is a long standing ally of China so this is hardly surprising to anyone.

 

[brandonbull]

Sounds like the stuff Progressheviks have been doing in the US. Destroying any or anything over perceived social media slights or not explicitly toeing the Progressive party line.

 

[dainthomas]

Meh, are they the only game in town? If yes, I see your point. If no, then it's not the same as China's government rating you.

The concept reminds me of that Black Mirror episode where citizens rated interactions with each other which attributed to many facets of their lives

This was an episode of The Orville also.

 

[nickqt]

Sounds like the stuff Progressheviks have been doing in the US. Destroying any or anything over perceived social media slights or not explicitly toeing the Progressive party line.

You're an idiot. Go back to watching Fox News in your safe space.

 

[UglyCasanova]

I like the stability of the fixed. Borrowers are under no obligation to go with the adjustable rate. If people start just refusing them enough, lenders will have to respond to the market change. This comes down to having educated and knowledgeable borrowers.

It’s the more highly educated that I’m seeing go towards the ARMs though. And a lot of the problem is the regulators drowning the borrowers in disclosures that never get read and with an enormous stack of papers it’s easy to lose sight of the actual transaction. And hell trying to find an LO to explain what the APR encompasses

 

[hal2kilo]

The entire point of the system is to control the population, and this is an easier method than shooting people. The system gives government a great deal of control without having to be publicly brutal. It will be interesting to see how nonconformists are dealt with, they'll have to either be contained or disposed of. My guess is disposal will be the popular option, as it's a permanent solution.

Sounds like the 50's and early 60's here.

 

[brandonbull]

You're an idiot. Go back to watching Fox News in your safe space.

I'm sure you've reported me to have my credit score lowered.

 

[ch33zw1z]

It’s the more highly educated that I’m seeing go towards the ARMs though. And a lot of the problem is the regulators drowning the borrowers in disclosures that never get read and with an enormous stack of papers it’s easy to lose sight of the actual transaction. And hell trying to find an LO to explain what the APR encompasses

I'm not sure what you're qualifying as highly educated. When I'm saying educated and knowledgeable, I don't necessarily mean people that graduated from 4year+ universities or colleges. These terms in this context directly relate to the borrowers money math, planning, and self control skills. Don't conflate my statement with some jab at uneducated people.. you will find people who never went to college or even graduate high school who have the brains to know how this stuff is going to work, but our education system could use more focus on financial money handling, IMO.

 

[urvile]

I read about this a while ago it's not surprising. China like the US wants to keep a close watch on it's citizens. As Greenman said it's really just a matter of time before the US tracks everyone via CCTV with facial recognition. They are already doing it for "law enforcement purposes" but if you track everyone in real time then you can prevent crimes from happening. Which makes us all safer.