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China to 'liquidate' US Treasuries, not dollars.

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/financ...china-to-liquidate-us-treasuries-not-dollars/

They are going to slowly but surely be pulling out of buying up US T-Bills and eliminating their portfolio of US debt. They aren't going to ditch the dollar just yet but will be using it to purchase equities and hard assets (e.g. property).

China to 'liquidate' US Treasuries, not dollars.

The debt markets have been warned.

A key rate setter-for China's central bank let slip – or was it a slip? – that Beijing aims to run down its portfolio of US debt as soon as safely possible.

"The incremental parts of our of our foreign reserve holdings should be invested in physical assets," said Li Daokui at the World Economic Forum in the very rainy city of Dalian – former Port Arthur from Russian colonial days.

"We would like to buy stakes in Boeing, Intel, and Apple, and maybe we should invest in these types of companies in a proactive way."

"Once the US Treasury market stabilizes we can liquidate more of our holdings of Treasuries," he said.

To my knowledge, this is the first time that a top adviser to China's central bank has uttered the word "liquidate". Until now the policy has been to diversify slowly by investing the fresh $200bn accumulated each quarter into other currencies and assets – chiefly AAA euro debt from Germany, France and the hard core.

We don't know how much US debt is held by SAFE (State Administration of Foreign Exchange), the bank's FX arm. The figure is thought to be over $2.2 trillion.

The Chinese are clearly vexed with Washington, viewing the Fed's QE as a stealth default on US debt. Mr Li came close to calling America a basket case, saying the picture is far worse than when Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher took over in the early 1980s.

Mr Li, one of three outside academics on China's MPC, described the debt deals on Capitol Hill as "just trying to by time", saying it will not be enough to stop America's "debt dynamic" turning dangerous.

Fair enough, but let us be clear: the reason China has accumulated the equivalent of 6pc of global GDP in reserves (like the US in the 1920s) is because it has held down its currency to gain market share. As Michael Pettis from Beijing University points out tirelessly, the mercantilist policy hollows out US industries and forces America to choose between debt bubbles or unemployment – or, of course, protectionism, though we are not there yet.

Until it abandons that core policy, it has to keep buying foreign assets and lots of dollars. The euro can absorb only so much – 800bn euros so far – before Europeans realize (the French already realize) that Chinese bond purchases are double edged, and the yen the Swissie can't absorb anything at all. (The governments are intervening to stop it). Besides, China has the same misgivings about euro debt as it does about dollar debt. Perhaps more so after Euroland's long-running soap opera.

So what Li Daokui said is not bad for the dollar as such. He said there is "$10 trillion" waiting to be invested in the US, if America will open its doors.

It is bad for bonds – or will be. The money will go into strategic land purchases all over the world, until the backlash erupts in earnest. It will go into equities, until Capitol Hill has a heart attack. It will go anywhere but debt.

Yet another reason to be careful of 10-year Treasuries and Bunds below 2pc yields. There is a big seller out there, just itching to let go.


and in other news China is also pledging that it would be willing to bail out the Europeans but they are doing so in order to keep the Euro currency from tanking against their own currency it seems and thus protecting their markets in Europe.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...re-about-trade-than-diplomacy-the-ticker.html
 
Good luck with that. If they dump treasuries, the Fed will buy them up with dollars to maintain the target interest rates. More dollars in circulation, dollar depreciates, Chinese exports become less competitive, economic problems and political unrest for Beijing. It would be good stimulus for the US though if the Chinese start investing in everything.
 
Good luck with that. If they dump treasuries, the Fed will buy them up with dollars to maintain the target interest rates. More dollars in circulation, dollar depreciates, Chinese exports become less competitive, economic problems and political unrest for Beijing. It would be good stimulus for the US though if the Chinese start investing in everything.

Yeah massive inflation is fantastic. We are much better off the way things are now with them keeping our borrowing costs low.

edit: You are also (hopefully) wrong about what the Fed would do. The Fed wouldn't just keep expanding it's balance sheet in the face of inflation to keep interest rates low.
 
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China won't seriously screw with US debt, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they did.

On a vaguely related note, it would be nice if we'd have the balls to force them to let their currency appreciate.
 
http://pragcap.com/does-china-fund-our-spending

The massive amount of debt that they are holding as opposed to accepting dollars and strengthening their currency is only hurting the USA in trade with china currently.

If we keep just expanding their treasury account they don't have to experience their currency rising in strength.

If they decide to acquire land as opposed to parking their USD from trade with USA in treasuries, they are weakening the dollar and essentially allowing us to raise the price of their currency.

Interviewer: I’m glad you touched upon the question of China accumulating credits with the U.S., because this is poorly understood. Money that Chinese earn by sending merchandise to the United States are credits in the U.S., and these credit units are nonredeemable, so Chinese owners can do nothing with these things unless they use them to buy American products, and if they do, those units become profits for American firms. But there is also another possibility, which sometimes raises concerns in the larger public, and this is what happens if China should choose to get rid of these dollars by selling the U.S. securities they own. While the amount of dollars owned by foreigners doesn’t change, the price of the dollar would in fact decline. If China sells off American debt, dollar depreciation may be substantial.
WM: Operationally, it’s not a problem because if they bought Euros from the Deutsche Bank, we would move their dollars from their account at the Fed to the Deutsche Bank account at the Fed. The problem might be that the value of the dollar would go down. Well, one thing you’ve got to take note of is that the U.S. administration is trying to get China to revaluate currency upward, and this is no different from selling off dollars, right? So, what you are talking about (selling off dollars) is something the U.S. is trying to force to happen, would you agree with that?
 
Japan did that in the 80's and 90's because they faced a similar issue as China does now. We have China by the balls, and they know it.
 
If only they'd listened in the '90s and the 2000's when the U.S. was telling them to unpeg their currency from the dollar, or at least allow it to appreciate gradually. But they insisted on supplying their slave labor to the world and the world lapped it up. The bill had to come due some day. And that day is now.

China is as complicit in the financial instability rocking the world as everyone else.
 
Japan did that in the 80's and 90's because they faced a similar issue as China does now. We have China by the balls, and they know it.

I dont know if we completely have them by the balls. But I agree this reminds me of Japan in the 80s and early 90s. They bought up real estate and assets left and right. I still remember everybody believed Hawaii would be owned by Japan. The result was a collapse in the market and Japan got out with a whole lot of losses.

I see China's attempt to prop up their export bubble by proposing to fund Europeans debt as a last ditch attempt to keep their economy from collapsing. I should sell my fidelity china fund now.
 
I dont know if we completely have them by the balls. But I agree this reminds me of Japan in the 80s and early 90s. They bought up real estate and assets left and right. I still remember everybody believed Hawaii would be owned by Japan. The result was a collapse in the market and Japan got out with a whole lot of losses.

I see China's attempt to prop up their export bubble by proposing to fund Europeans debt as a last ditch attempt to keep their economy from collapsing. I should sell my fidelity china fund now.

I'm pretty sure the Chinese are smart enough not to buy 100% real estate assets. If read closely, it mentioned them buying physical assets in all types of forms including commodities, company equity, land, and likely other investment vehicles.
 
I dont know if we completely have them by the balls. But I agree this reminds me of Japan in the 80s and early 90s. They bought up real estate and assets left and right. I still remember everybody believed Hawaii would be owned by Japan. The result was a collapse in the market and Japan got out with a whole lot of losses.

I see China's attempt to prop up their export bubble by proposing to fund Europeans debt as a last ditch attempt to keep their economy from collapsing. I should sell my fidelity china fund now.

Yep I remember the 80's...the panic that Japanese will soon be our 2nd language, blah blah blah.

Seems to me I recall similar stories about China a couple of years ago.
 
I'm pretty sure the Chinese are smart enough not to buy 100% real estate assets. If read closely, it mentioned them buying physical assets in all types of forms including commodities, company equity, land, and likely other investment vehicles.

The point is those can be quite volatile. They are moving from a relatively safe form of investment to markets that see wild swings.
 
Good luck with that. If they dump treasuries, the Fed will buy them up with dollars to maintain the target interest rates. More dollars in circulation, dollar depreciates, Chinese exports become less competitive, economic problems and political unrest for Beijing. It would be good stimulus for the US though if the Chinese start investing in everything.

how exactly will it make things better here? we still won't make anything because people don't want to work for minimum wage or lower and people don't want any sort of pollution whatsoeverperiod because of stupid hippies. nothing will get done because no one wants to do anything.
 
Who they going to invest in? Euro is more shakey than dollars. If you dump them before maturity you only get an auction rate which is usually lower than the maturity price. No guarantee they will even sale. Maybe they plan on buying up some more commoditities or some farmland in another country.

China was going to build a super-hub for trade with China/USA/south america. That is going to cost some investment dollars.

With an interest rate of less then 1% who wants to invest in the USA? Either inflation will be higher or deflation will kill us.
 
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Who they going to invest in? Euro is more shakey than dollars. If you dump them before maturity you only get an auction rate which is usually lower than the maturity price. No guarantee they will even sale. Maybe they plan on buying up some more commoditities or some farmland in another country.

China was going to build a super-hub for trade with China/USA/south america. That is going to cost some investment dollars.

With an interest rate of less then 1% who wants to invest in the USA? Either inflation will be higher or deflation will kill us.

You will have both.

The Fed cant keep buying up its own debt forever that is just a shell game waiting to implode. The dollars will sooner or later start to pour out of the FOREX reserves the world over and inflate the dollar to nothingness. The homemarkets will stagnate completely as will job creation and salaries will lag behind real time inflation.
 
Yeah massive inflation is fantastic. We are much better off the way things are now with them keeping our borrowing costs low.

edit: You are also (hopefully) wrong about what the Fed would do. The Fed wouldn't just keep expanding it's balance sheet in the face of inflation to keep interest rates low.

Inflation is not our biggest concern with 9% unemployment. Dollar devaluation would do this country a lot of good both in terms of export competitiveness and resolving the debt overhang.
 
how exactly will it make things better here? we still won't make anything because people don't want to work for minimum wage or lower and people don't want any sort of pollution whatsoeverperiod because of stupid hippies. nothing will get done because no one wants to do anything.

US wages and benefits will get cheaper in real terms, since they are denominated in dollars. That will make building in the US more attractive. It's basic economics.
You are too focused on regurgitating right-wing talking points to think clearly.
With medicine being as expensive as it is in the US, polluting more is not going to make US labor more competitive. The savings on pollution controls will increase health care costs by much more, make manufacturing in America less attractive.
Also, where do you plan to stop? You can't win a pollution race to the bottom on pollution with the Chinese, unless you decide that millions of people are expandable. The health care costs would bankrupt America.
Do you want to "out-compete" China on this:
20091020luguang10.jpg

20091020luguang21.jpg

20091020luguang26.jpg

20091020luguang08.jpg

?
 
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