China poised to blow by US in science, engineering and more....

[werepossum]

I'm not at all happy the U.S. has little manufacturing left.

However, I'm not delusional into believing a false reality where I can pretend all these manufacturing jobs could viably stay in the U.S.

They could easily stay in the USA IFF we're willing to pay more for consumer goods.

 

[Engineer]

They could easily stay in the USA IFF we're willing to pay more for consumer goods.

We will be paying for it one way or another (i.e. Welfare on the rise, massive debt, bubble after bubble....and on...and on..).

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't have a clue as to what your statement means in terms of what I quoted and made a statement to. I think you've got some wires crossed somewhere. From what I read, he was talking about partisan politics and deep political divide that this country has (see this forum). As for the other half, they simply want to play whatever the hot video game is and don't give a shit about the country or the downward spiral.

I'm trying to get past the fluff in making a statement like "We're tearing ourselves apart" or "Everyone wants theirs, fuck the rest" and etc. From your op, you think that there is a serious threat of science-educated foreigners to our local science/tech economy/jobs/etc. You are concerned with people buying "their cheap stuff"; does that apply to cheaper medicine? Moreover, I'd like to see how "they" are going to do this entirely autonomously when very significant numbers of educated immigrants continue to study and work here. When it comes to food and illegals it's "Republicans want cheap labor and Democrats want votes", an oft-cited example of how the man is tearing us apart while we live our happy little lives consuming cheap produce. How do you create an analogy between that and what is shown in the story in your op?

 

[Victorian Gray]

And you just proved that you lick the walls.

And he doubles down. Keep up the good work.

 

[werepossum]

China has a State Capitalist model, with State Owned Enterprises all over their economy, you imbeciles.

Not nearly to the degree that it was even a decade ago. China has embraced the power inherent in capitalism. Take a look at any cutting edge subject, such as LED lighting, and you'll find literally dozens of private start-up manufacturing AND DESIGN companies run by very smart, very well-educated people. And along side those you'll find massive companies, some state-owned but most not, competing with them. There is simply a huge amount of economic freedom in China today.

We will be paying for it one way or another (i.e. Welfare on the rise, massive debt, bubble after bubble....and on...and on..).

Yep. Except for the people with the wealth and/or connections to buy politicians - they're still doing fine. They can move their factories to China and even get taxpayers to pony up to cover their costs in doing so.

 

[bradly1101]

Are we #1 at anything anymore (except of course in junk food consumption, obesity, income disparity and gun ownership)?

 

[BoberFett]

And he doubles down. Keep up the good work.

Victorian Gray, sounds like some kind of Limey Parrot. Fitting.

Do you have anything worthwhile to say other than an idiotic rant that has nothing to do with the discussion, and then childish retorts attempting to cover up for your earlier buffoonery?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Victorian Gray, sounds like some kind of Limey Parrot. Fitting.

And a triple.

 

[Zebo]

I'm not at all happy the U.S. has little manufacturing left.

However, I'm not delusional into believing a false reality where I can pretend all these manufacturing jobs could viably stay in the U.S.

Really? How does Germany do it?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Really? How does Germany do it?

By selling mass-produced stuff to their EU homies.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Victorian Gray, sounds like some kind of Limey Parrot. Fitting.

Do you have anything worthwhile to say other than an idiotic rant that has nothing to do with the discussion, and then childish retorts attempting to cover up for your earlier buffoonery?

Added more insults to the original post after I'd already replied so we are now up to the 4th time you made my original point.

They tell me it eventually stops hurting once you stop hitting yourself over the head with your hammer. It might be worth trying at this point.

 

[BoberFett]

So? Do you have anything useful to say?

 

[oslama]

The elites better start speaking Mandarin and the rest Spanish.

Common Core will make us #1 in education. screw STEM.

Oh back to TV , the Karthrashians are on.

 

[bradley]

The elites better start speaking Mandarin and the rest Spanish.

Common Core will make us #1 in education. screw STEM.

Oh back to TV , the Karthrashians are on.

Yep, go back to shleep. The years 1971, 1993 and 2001 are meaningless to you, unless someone makes a movie starring Brad Pitt.

1971 Nixon ends ban of Chinese Trade.

1993 Clinton signs NAFTA/GATT treaty.

2001 Clinton gives China "Most Favored Nation" trading status.

 

[Victorian Gray]

So? Do you have anything useful to say?

Possibly.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Don't worry guys, capitalism will save us along with the job creators!

How did China achieve so much in such a short amount of time? Was it the grand design of leftist centralized government planning or via adopting free market ideals and liberalizing their marketplace (even if it is to lesser extend to what we see in the US) by having government get the fuck out of the way??? I'd imagine if they really did embrace capitalism and free markets they'd not only finally supplant the US they'd dominate us economically and eventually militarily for centuries to come.

So as you deride capitalism you ignore the fact that the Chinese got to where they are at right now (on the cusp of dominating the US economically and educationally on many fronts) by abandoning the Marxist based economic and social engineering garbage that held their nation back and caused millions of Chinese citizens to die at the hands of the "Great Leader" (Mao Zedong) and his policies. Meanwhile here in the US we have idiots like you who think the way forward is to go back to old and defunct economic and political systems of centralized planning and government control of everything in life from cradle to grave that even the remnants of Chinese communist party now realize are/were stupid and destructive.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

China has a State Capitalist model, with State Owned Enterprises all over their economy, you imbeciles.

And apparently you think the "GREAT LEAP FORWARD" is to embrace a defunct economic system (centralized economic government planning) that the Chinese have in many regards left behind or are slowly leaving behind as a failed economic model??

 

[Engineer]

How did China achieve so much in such a short amount of time? Was it the grand design of leftist centralized government planning or via adopting free market ideals and liberalizing their marketplace (even if it is to lesser extend to what we see in the US) by having government get the fuck out of the way??? I'd imagine if they really did embrace capitalism and free markets they'd not only finally supplant the US they'd dominate us economically and eventually militarily for centuries to come.

So as you deride capitalism you ignore the fact that the Chinese got to where they are at right now (on the cusp of dominating the US economically and educationally on many fronts) by abandoning the Marxist based economic and social engineering garbage that held their nation back and caused millions of Chinese citizens to die at the hands of the "Great Leader" (Mao Zedong) and his policies. Meanwhile here in the US we have idiots like you who think the way forward is to go back to old and defunct economic and political systems of centralized planning and government control of everything in life from cradle to grave that even the remnants of Chinese communist party now realize are/were stupid and destructive.

Then what do you suggest then?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Then what do you suggest then?

I don't know maybe something simple like government to step out of the way of choosing winners and losers in our economy and distorting it our economy with often needless taxes, regulation, mandates, etc that add imposed upon additional costs onto businesses? Or how about we stopping the top down politicization of our educational process which started when the Department of Education was established in 1970?

Obviously the current trend of a larger and larger government is not working out for us and greater and greater control of our educational system by the Fed and those who have more political rather then educational interests is not producing any worthy results? Unless you think we should just double down on everything as the solution.

 

[Engineer]

I don't know maybe something simple like government to step out of the way of choosing winners and losers in our economy and distorting it our economy with often needless taxes, regulation, mandates, etc that add imposed upon additional costs onto businesses? Or how about we stopping the top down politicization of our educational process which started when the Department of Education was established in 1970?

Obviously the current trend of a larger and larger government is not working out for us and greater and greater control of our educational system by the Fed and those who have more political rather then educational interests is not producing any worthy results? Unless you think we should just double down on everything as the solution.

Sounds like you would like to take our workers back to the Chinese worker level as far as pay, safety, benefits, worker rights, etc.?

 

[bradley]

In 1971, 1993 and 2001, the US gave up the farm to China (and other nations) during the zenith position of their strength.

The only logical explanation for giving way more than was ever gotten (to a society that probably didn't deserve it): a) ignorance b) corruption c) all of the above.

Today, the US is making decisions from places of economic weakness, especially with a fiat currency or strong military to back it.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

In 1971, 1993 and 2001, the US gave up the farm to China (and other nations) during the zenith position of their strength.

The only logical explanation for giving way more than was ever gotten (to a society that probably didn't deserve it): a) ignorance b) corruption c) all of the above.

Today, the US is making decisions from places of economic weakness, especially with a fiat currency or strong military to back it.

Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Sounds like you would like to take our workers back to the Chinese worker level as far as pay, safety, benefits, worker rights, etc.?

Sounds like you would want to make the US even less attractive to businesses, while allowing government to pick winners and losers based on who can sway the political machines that run government rather then have actual competition and worse have more Americans dependent on government. As the solution that you seem to want is to embrace a system of envy and scapegoating rather then having a actual functioning economy that is not distorted by the hand of government which has lead us to the point where we are at as a nation.

See I can play that game as well.

 

[Engineer]

Sounds like you would want to make the US even less attractive to businesses, while allowing government to pick winners and losers based on who can sway the political machines that run government rather then have actual competition and worse have more Americans dependent on government. As the solution that you seem to want is to embrace a system of envy and scapegoating rather then having a actual functioning economy that is not distorted by the hand of government which has lead us to the point where we are at as a nation.

See I can play that game as well.

You didn't address my question. What mandates, regulations and taxes would you get rid of and why?

 

[Vic]

They could easily stay in the USA IFF we're willing to pay more for consumer goods.

Or corporations and Wall Street were willing to accept lower profits.

Outsourcing didn't happen because business executives felt some altruistic urge to lower prices for consumers. What they wanted were lower costs and fatter margins. Low prices were just icing on the cake.