China poised to blow by US in science, engineering and more....

[bradley]

Thinks about the economics involved. It ain't happening. Neither side could afford it.

You say that as though humanity has mastered blind aggression, much less the seven deadly sins or our respective economies.

Today the US would give China an ass-kicking on almost every front; I'd worry way more about the human casualties and repercussions. In ten years from now - if things continue this way with USAs cup spilling over with corruption, who knows the ultimate victor?

 

[Victorian Gray]

You say that as though humanity has mastered blind aggression, much less the seven deadly sins or our respective economies.

Today the US would give China an ass-kicking on almost every front; I'd worry way more about the human casualties and repercussions. In ten years from now - if things continue this way with USAs cup spilling over with corruption, who knows the ultimate victor?

There isn't going to be an ultimate victor in that sense because there isn't going to be a war between the U.S. and China. The entire leaderships of each country would have to experience collective insanity all at the same time in order for a major war like that to happen.

The sky is not falling and there are actual real problems for you to deal with. Stop worrying about graphic novel / Hollywood movie fantasies.

Red Dawn was not a documentary.

 

[Zebo]

You say that as though humanity has mastered blind aggression, much less the seven deadly sins or our respective economies.

Today the US would give China an ass-kicking on almost every front; I'd worry way more about the human casualties and repercussions. In ten years from now - if things continue this way with USAs cup spilling over with corruption, who knows the ultimate victor?

We still have our military to rob world resources and force the world to take our funny money. US is a hegemonic empire that won't be easily dethroned. Will take a lot more than 10 years. Maybe 50-100. That doesn't help our middle class by in large in meantime though. Our forever Post doc science and engineering PhDs. Majority of college grads chained to debt for life "saying can I take your order." Let alone just a HS kid who wants a steady living wage.

 

[bradley]

I don't know the last US (or NZ) movie or television show watched by me. Although that statement and projection would be ironic coming from any non-US citizen perhaps enamored by US culture.

I'd rather read Nixon's memoirs and learn for our past mistakes. Especially in the Shanghai Communique, both Nixon and Mao wrote, “China will never be a superpower and it opposes hegemony and power politics of any kind.” How's that for lol clairvoyance.

China is most certainly developing regional hegemony and showing discontentment as a US *silent* partner, we'll see where that leads. Perhaps they will make a Hollywood movie about it some day.

I give Nixon (and Kissenger) credit for trying with China. However I take away major points for the backdraft they created by underestimating China, and the complexities of Taiwan (viewed as expendable lol?,) which eventually fostered a relationship on China's terms from a position of great US strength. Ultimately what began weakly with Nixon ended badly with Clinton.

I see that fateful 2001 decision to allow Chinese "quick entry" into the WTO as a true turning point, which created the current state of the US economy. All of the Clinton Adminstration's projections and assumptions about China becoming more 'Westernized' were way wrong. Yet, for more than a decade, this important issue instead has been obfuscated mostly by the war on terror and other such distraction$.

 

[bradley]

We still have our military to rob world resources and force the world to take our funny money. US is a hegemonic empire that won't be easily dethroned. Will take a lot more than 10 years. Maybe 50-100. That doesn't help our middle class by in large in meantime though. Our forever Post doc science and engineering PhDs. Majority of college grads chained to debt for life "saying can I take your order." Let alone just a HS kid who wants a steady living wage.

Way closer to a fundamental underlying truth than what the other dude wrote. The true fight is for a fiat currency backed by a vast military industrial complex. Except everything is moving at digital breakneck speed now. 60 is the new 30. And a year has become the new decade.

In the meantime, expect the middle-class to continue shrinking at both ends. Things will only start to change when Americans get tired of being the consumers vs. the producers. Hope we don't run out of time or road.

 

[bradley]

China's Entry Into The WTO 10 Years Later Is Not What President Clinton Promised
http://www.manufacturingnews.com/news/10/0615/WTO.html

And to say there isn't an ultimate victor has no knowledge/understanding of who writes the history books... with a nod to Winston Churchill.

 

[Jaskalas]

A very perceptive Chinese American friend of mine sees a US/China war in the not too distant future, and sadly I agree.

War over what, does China plan to invade / seize / capture its neighbors?

Do you mean economic war?

 

[Svnla]

War over what, does China plan to invade / seize / capture its neighbors?

Do you mean economic war?

Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang, part of India. Attacked Vietnam in 1979 and was humiliated by women and old men from the local militia force.

Right now it is claiming almost the whole South of china Sea (took Paracel and part of Spratly from Vietnam and Scarborough Shoal from Philippines) and intimidation Japan in East of china Sea. Don't forget about Taiwan.

Bully china is acting like Nazi Germany in the 30's.

 

[Zebo]

No offense but with the institutions of power (rule of law, science and discovery etc) nations becomes empire always has always will. It wasnt just Europeans for last 500 years. Muslims were before that, Mongols before that and so on. Han Chinese will be empire in 50-100 years not unlike ours at rate they are progressing while we digress.

 

[bradley]

It's funny though, because the very first commenter to the below article nails it right on the head. Seriously, read the comments section, it's way better and more relevant than the posts so far in P&N.

Five Chinese Weapons of War America Should Fear
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/five-chinese-weapons-war-america-should-fear-10388

"Irony is staring at us eyeball to eyeball.

If the US had not shipped its industrial plant to China and sent its entire middle class into extinction, they'd still be sweeping dirt streets with tree branches in Beijing.

We did this to ourselves by allowing the globalists to use this nation as a warehouse for whatever they wanted to put elsewhere... our jobs, our factories, our everything."

Bam.

Instead of asking *how* China so quickly amassed power, it should immediately be understood. Instead we should be asking *why.* To that question, I can only assume it the precipitation of a) the rise of greedy globalists in an inherently inequitable system b) sheer ignorance c) inability to learn from history's mistakes d) unprecedented corruption.

Because most of US's economic policy since 2000 has been like systematic sabotage of a nation at its greatest peak in world history. At this point, even Neville Chamberlain would be dumbfounded and scratching his head.

 

[Engineer]

It's funny though, because the very first commenter to the below article nails it right on the head. Seriously, read the comments section, it's way better and more relevant than the posts so far in P&N.

Five Chinese Weapons of War America Should Fear
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/five-chinese-weapons-war-america-should-fear-10388



Bam.

Instead of asking *how* China so quickly amassed power, it should immediately be understood. Instead we should be asking *why.* To that question, I can only assume it the precipitation of a) the rise of greedy globalists in an inherently inequitable system b) sheer ignorance c) inability to learn from history's mistakes d) unprecedented corruption.

Because most of US's economic policy since 2000 has been like systematic sabotage of a nation at its greatest peak in world history. At this point, even Neville Chamberlain would be dumbfounded and scratching his head.

Bam indeed.

 

[Zebo]

yeah. However I dont agree they'd still be sweeping streets. It's not a win lose scenario but they would be slower while we would have maintained not engaging in quarterly profits.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

yeah. However I dont agree they'd still be sweeping streets. It's not a win lose scenario but they would be slower while we would have maintained not engaging in quarterly profits.

Nope. Only people of European descent can truly create. It's in our blood; we are the master race, the inventors, the basket of knowledge and prosperity from which others steal. They can only beg to slave under us so that they may catch a glimmer of our brilliance and wealth, 4000+ years of recorded civilization be damned.

 

[ericlp]

Good, I hope china overtakes us in math and science. With 90% of the idiots in America believing the earth is only 6K years old... Or whatever the number is, I forgot... America deserves what it is about to get.

Hopefully China can do some amazing things much better and faster than we can. We had our time to shine, now we just throw it away. I just want the tech to advance. The next 10-20 years will be interesting. Last time I posted here we were talking about the same issues, I see it has not changed much!

 

[OverVolt]

True enough, I have a Ph. D. in chemistry and I managed to get out of research because the job market is so bad. Much of it in my field is being outsourced or abandoned altogether. I'm a little worried because many companies cut their R&D in the recession and while it's starting to come back, I don't think it's near the levels it was pre-recession. Companies see R&D as a cost center, and when it comes to cutting R&D versus cutting manufacturing, R&D will almost always be the first to go. It's a short term solution that seriously handicaps the future performance and outlook for any company.

Which field?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Good, I hope china overtakes us in math and science. With 90% of the idiots in America believing the earth is only 6K years old... Or whatever the number is, I forgot... America deserves what it is about to get.

Why would anyone in the US study science or math at this point? You generally get ridiculed or when you do get a job, no one respects you. "Business majors" look down on you and treat you like a slave or cost center despite the fact that just about any idiot with 3 brain cells can major in business but you have to be pretty intelligent to make it through a science/engineering degree program. As someone with an engineering degree who has had to report to some of these idiots, it is demoralizing.

Kids are indoctrinated by the media to be a lawyer or a Wall Street broker. Yeah, I know, salaries for new lawyers are still in the tank and there is a huge oversupply but to my knowledge, they keep cranking them out. And, those who don't major in one of those listen to the other messages being pushed by our society and that message is you must have any sort of 4 year degree to be someone, hence the huge number of liberal arts majors who can't find decent jobs.

 

[unokitty]

China tops U.S, Japan to become top patent filer in 2011

China’s patent office now the world’s biggest, UN innovation report finds

U.S. Teens Brimming With Self-Esteem

Today's American high school students are far likelier than those in the 1970s to believe they'll make outstanding spouses, parents and workers, new research shows.

They're also much more likely to claim they are "A" students with high IQs -- even though other research shows that today's students do less homework than their counterparts did in the 1970s...

"High school students' responses have crossed over into a really unrealistic realm, with three-fourths of them expecting performance that's effectively in the top 20 percent," Twenge said.

Self Esteem?

Uno

 

[Matt1970]

We were warned. Enjoy the money you "saved" buying that cheap crap.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

We were warned. Enjoy the money you "saved" buying that cheap crap.

You're right, we were and we sat by while Washington gave away the farm. Thank God I don't have kids and if I can just make it in the workforce 10-20 more years, I can get out of the rat race to the bottom. I feel for the future generations. All of this was entirely avoidable.

EDIT: You know, I remember being a kid in the 70s and 80s. Sure, things were generally more expensive relatively speaking (much of the manufacturing was still here), but you know what? I remember most people being happier. Most people still had secure jobs and didn't have to worry about being laid off in their 50s and not being able to find another job. Many still had pensions and knew as long as they put in their time, they'd generally be fine in retirement.

 

[Engineer]

China tops U.S, Japan to become top patent filer in 2011

China’s patent office now the world’s biggest, UN innovation report finds

U.S. Teens Brimming With Self-Esteem


Self Esteem?

Uno

As I said in the OP, lots of smug people here (not talking about you either).

 

[Fenixgoon]

It's funny though, because the very first commenter to the below article nails it right on the head. Seriously, read the comments section, it's way better and more relevant than the posts so far in P&N.

Five Chinese Weapons of War America Should Fear
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/five-chinese-weapons-war-america-should-fear-10388



Bam.

Instead of asking *how* China so quickly amassed power, it should immediately be understood. Instead we should be asking *why.* To that question, I can only assume it the precipitation of a) the rise of greedy globalists in an inherently inequitable system b) sheer ignorance c) inability to learn from history's mistakes d) unprecedented corruption.

Because most of US's economic policy since 2000 has been like systematic sabotage of a nation at its greatest peak in world history. At this point, even Neville Chamberlain would be dumbfounded and scratching his head.

of those 5, i would really only be worried about the ASBM and the cyber warfare.

 

[norseamd]

of those 5, i would really only be worried about the ASBM and the cyber warfare.

no

 

[norseamd]

No offense but with the institutions of power (rule of law, science and discovery etc) nations becomes empire always has always will. It wasnt just Europeans for last 500 years. Muslims were before that, Mongols before that and so on. Han Chinese will be empire in 50-100 years not unlike ours at rate they are progressing while we digress.

very true

 

[norseamd]

Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang, part of India. Attacked Vietnam in 1979 and was humiliated by women and old men from the local militia force.

Right now it is claiming almost the whole South of china Sea (took Paracel and part of Spratly from Vietnam and Scarborough Shoal from Philippines) and intimidation Japan in East of china Sea. Don't forget about Taiwan.

Bully china is acting like Nazi Germany in the 30's.

Their current interests are probably the Taiwanese and the South China Sea. However if they continue to gain power without any major problems then they will start to look at Vietnam, Laos, Burma, Nepal, Bhutan, eastern India, eastern Russia, Japanese and Korean islands, and even the central asian countries.

 

[Matt1970]

You're right, we were and we sat by while Washington gave away the farm. Thank God I don't have kids and if I can just make it in the workforce 10-20 more years, I can get out of the rat race to the bottom. I feel for the future generations. All of this was entirely avoidable.

EDIT: You know, I remember being a kid in the 70s and 80s. Sure, things were generally more expensive relatively speaking (much of the manufacturing was still here), but you know what? I remember most people being happier. Most people still had secure jobs and didn't have to worry about being laid off in their 50s and not being able to find another job. Many still had pensions and knew as long as they put in their time, they'd generally be fine in retirement.

I am in the exact same boat you are in. You bring up a good point about people's uncertainty in their own futures. That can lead to recessions being even worse as people will tend to hold their pocketbooks a little tighter when times are tough.