China Exceeds US Exports of Technology for first time

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Like the U.S. was before being corrupted by the Republicans.

US Trade Balance with China

1992 44.3%
1993 24.4%
1994 29.5%
1995 14.5%
1996 17.0%
1997 25.7%
1998 14.6%
1999 20.6%
2000 22.1%
2001 -0.9%
2002 24.0%
2003 20.4%
2004 30.5%

Trade balance (imports-exports) with China increased a total of 358% during Clinton's term (8 years), compared with 93% in Bush's term (4 years).

Hope for more Democrat rule eh Dave?...

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: piasabird
We cant possibly have enought cheaply made Toy Cars and chaep plastic balls.

Last I checked, plastic balls and toy cars dont count as IT products.

Originally posted by: piasabird
If South American Countries were not all backward 3rd World Dictatorships, then maybe we could be buying products made by them. If Mexico was not so corrupt it could become a great nation.

Maybe if the USA stopped invading whenever some South/Central American elected government chooses to be socialist based.

What South American country did we invade?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Like the U.S. was before being corrupted by the Republicans.

US Trade Balance with China

1992 44.3%
1993 24.4%
1994 29.5%
1995 14.5%
1996 17.0%
1997 25.7%
1998 14.6%
1999 20.6%
2000 22.1%
2001 -0.9%
2002 24.0%
2003 20.4%
2004 30.5%

Trade balance (imports-exports) with China increased a total of 358% during Clinton's term (8 years), compared with 93% in Bush's term (4 years).

Hope for more Democrat rule eh Dave?...

Ahhh, but you fail to point out that the structure of the Corporations changed that they are actually Chineese Corporations getting U.S. Tax benefits.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Ahhh, but you fail to point out that the structure of the Corporations changed that they are actually Chineese Corporations getting U.S. Tax benefits.

What?

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Ahhh, but you fail to point out that the structure of the Corporations changed that they are actually Chineese Corporations getting U.S. Tax benefits.

What?

Don't try to carry on a conversation with him, when he loses an argument he just changes the subject.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: dexvx
Maybe if the USA stopped invading whenever some South/Central American elected government chooses to be socialist based.

What South American country did we invade?

Invade is probably too harsh a word; more like sponsored or supported (financially) the ousting of democratically elected governments. It's part of the Monroe Doctrine mentality:

Chile:
1970 - Salvador Allende becomes world's first democratically elected Marxist president and embarks on an extensive programme of nationalisation and radical social reform.
1973 - Gen Augusto Pinochet ousts Allende in CIA-sponsored coup and proceeds to establish a brutal dictatorship.

Nicaragua:
Too many points to highlight.

 

[IronMentality]

Originally posted by: Generator
Are Chinese exports wholly chinese exports? Besides the chinese laborers and the communists getting their cuts, thats still American money. But the question has to be asked why do American companies bother here anymore? Why not be come chinese companies? I wonder what the tax rates the commies put on American corporations.

An Apple iPod is counted as a Chinese export. So is a ViewSonic LCD monitor. Hell, so is any foreign company building stuff in China (obviously also including American companies).

Don't forget, an American company builds a factory in China, imports an iPod, and the profit stays in California.

 

[IronMentality]

Don't forget either, if a company from America starts building goods in China as well, the Chinese can also afford those goods. In effect, we increase our wealth as well and add new customers. What's wrong with that?

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: IronMentality

Originally posted by: Generator
Are Chinese exports wholly chinese exports? Besides the chinese laborers and the communists getting their cuts, thats still American money. But the question has to be asked why do American companies bother here anymore? Why not be come chinese companies? I wonder what the tax rates the commies put on American corporations.

An Apple iPod is counted as a Chinese export. So is a ViewSonic LCD monitor. Hell, so is any foreign company building stuff in China (obviously also including American companies).

Don't forget, an American company builds a factory in China, imports an iPod, and the profit stays in California.

NO - it does not. The US company sets up a forgein subsidiary, who then manufactures the ipod/monitory/laptop/etc. and then SELLS the item to the US main company. It rarely sells the item for the price it manufactured it - it sells it for much more. The US company "buys" the item from it's own subsidiary, and then sells it - sometimes for zero profit, sometimes for a loss (after it takes it's own overhead, staff, etc. charges) meaning that it pays NO US taxes for selling those items - all of that profit was in the inflated charge the forgein subsidiary happened to charge it - and THAT forgien subsidary is often, wonder of wonders! - incorporated in the Bahamas or Caymans...where they pay NO tax whatsoever, to ANY government....

Live and learn: life isn't a text book, and these guys are way smarter than you give them credit for...

Future Shock

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: IronMentality

Originally posted by: Generator
Are Chinese exports wholly chinese exports? Besides the chinese laborers and the communists getting their cuts, thats still American money. But the question has to be asked why do American companies bother here anymore? Why not be come chinese companies? I wonder what the tax rates the commies put on American corporations.

An Apple iPod is counted as a Chinese export. So is a ViewSonic LCD monitor. Hell, so is any foreign company building stuff in China (obviously also including American companies).

Don't forget, an American company builds a factory in China, imports an iPod, and the profit stays in California.

NO - it does not. The US company sets up a forgein subsidiary, who then manufactures the ipod/monitory/laptop/etc. and then SELLS the item to the US main company. It rarely sells the item for the price it manufactured it - it sells it for much more. The US company "buys" the item from it's own subsidiary, and then sells it - sometimes for zero profit, sometimes for a loss (after it takes it's own overhead, staff, etc. charges) meaning that it pays NO US taxes for selling those items - all of that profit was in the inflated charge the forgein subsidiary happened to charge it - and THAT forgien subsidary is often, wonder of wonders! - incorporated in the Bahamas or Caymans...where they pay NO tax whatsoever, to ANY government....

Live and learn: life isn't a text book, and these guys are way smarter than you give them credit for...

Future Shock

The example stated is the exception, not the rule. Most corperations do pay taxes, but no doubt they all attempt to game the system to keep the taxes at a minimum. However, as i stated earlier this ia very fixable problem, make corperation pay a low marginal rate with simple rules and this probably for the most part will disappear.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: IronMentality

Originally posted by: Generator
Are Chinese exports wholly chinese exports? Besides the chinese laborers and the communists getting their cuts, thats still American money. But the question has to be asked why do American companies bother here anymore? Why not be come chinese companies? I wonder what the tax rates the commies put on American corporations.

An Apple iPod is counted as a Chinese export. So is a ViewSonic LCD monitor. Hell, so is any foreign company building stuff in China (obviously also including American companies).

Don't forget, an American company builds a factory in China, imports an iPod, and the profit stays in California.

NO - it does not. The US company sets up a forgein subsidiary, who then manufactures the ipod/monitory/laptop/etc. and then SELLS the item to the US main company. It rarely sells the item for the price it manufactured it - it sells it for much more. The US company "buys" the item from it's own subsidiary, and then sells it - sometimes for zero profit, sometimes for a loss (after it takes it's own overhead, staff, etc. charges) meaning that it pays NO US taxes for selling those items - all of that profit was in the inflated charge the forgein subsidiary happened to charge it - and THAT forgien subsidary is often, wonder of wonders! - incorporated in the Bahamas or Caymans...where they pay NO tax whatsoever, to ANY government....

Live and learn: life isn't a text book, and these guys are way smarter than you give them credit for...

Future Shock

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Ahhh, but you fail to point out that the structure of the Corporations changed that they are actually Chineese Corporations getting U.S. Tax benefits.

What?

Don't try to carry on a conversation with him, when he loses an argument he just changes the subject.

Thanks Futureshock for explaining it in Engish.
Of course the rabid Republicans bent on destroying the U.S. will not own up to their deed.

When the next real War breaks out and the U.S. is under real threat, where will we manufacturer and get our weaponry from???

We've closed down most of our War capable factories, once GM is gone, we as a Country are cooked.

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: charrison


The example stated is the exception, not the rule. Most corperations do pay taxes, but no doubt they all attempt to game the system to keep the taxes at a minimum. However, as i stated earlier this ia very fixable problem, make corperation pay a low marginal rate with simple rules and this probably for the most part will disappear.

I beg to differ - it IS the rule. To such an extent that when I set up my own corporation two years ago, the company that assisted me getting incorporated out of state was very insistent that I set up an overseas adjunct - because everyone else was doing it. The list of US corporations incorporated outside the US in the islands reads like a Who's Who. Corps that I personally KNOW to be include Accenture and Staples, although you WILL NOT find that info on their website, anywhere, due to the negative PR. I suppose if you own stock you would see it in the annual report. The point is - it's a hard fact to find out (I only know because of work that I have done with them both recently).

Just because you change the marginal rates does not mean that companies will stop - after all - the setup costs are high, the price for restructuring the corp would be high again. And they can simply argue to themselves that their competitors will not have stopped...and they have to compete. So no one will stop offshoring income hiding...it's too lucrative, and they are too good at it.

And last, but not least, NO ONE in the boardroom wants to look like the wimp: "Oh, you want us to PAY taxes? Fscking pvssy..."

All that lowering the tax rate will accomplish is to further drive the US into deficit from which we cannot recover, and will be further held by the Chinese...

Future Shock

 

[sunzt]

+1 China

Originally posted by: Genx87

The thing I wonder about you guys is what it will take to prove to you that overseas trade relationships are not in the least destroying the American way of life as you so claim.

Will China eventually have a larger economy than the United States? Yes it will because of demographics. In the eyes of liberals this is scary because we wont be #1 anymore. In the eyes of a capitalists they see a new huge market from which to tap and sell their wares and goods.

Both repubs and dems are scared of not being #1. That bill of introducing a 27%ish or so tarrif on all Chinese imports was bi-partisan was it not?

 

[mackle]

I'm thinking of buying a farm....make my own food. Anyone else up for it??

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: charrison


The example stated is the exception, not the rule. Most corperations do pay taxes, but no doubt they all attempt to game the system to keep the taxes at a minimum. However, as i stated earlier this ia very fixable problem, make corperation pay a low marginal rate with simple rules and this probably for the most part will disappear.

I beg to differ - it IS the rule. To such an extent that when I set up my own corporation two years ago, the company that assisted me getting incorporated out of state was very insistent that I set up an overseas adjunct - because everyone else was doing it. The list of US corporations incorporated outside the US in the islands reads like a Who's Who. Corps that I personally KNOW to be include Accenture and Staples, although you WILL NOT find that info on their website, anywhere, due to the negative PR. I suppose if you own stock you would see it in the annual report. The point is - it's a hard fact to find out (I only know because of work that I have done with them both recently).

Just because you change the marginal rates does not mean that companies will stop - after all - the setup costs are high, the price for restructuring the corp would be high again. And they can simply argue to themselves that their competitors will not have stopped...and they have to compete. So no one will stop offshoring income hiding...it's too lucrative, and they are too good at it.

And last, but not least, NO ONE in the boardroom wants to look like the wimp: "Oh, you want us to PAY taxes? Fscking pvssy..."

All that lowering the tax rate will accomplish is to further drive the US into deficit from which we cannot recover, and will be further held by the Chinese...

Future Shock

It appears that both staples and accenture are doing a poor job of dodging taxes.

staples
accenture

Have any more examples?

Large corperations are voluntary tax payers, meaning they have the means the go where they get the best deal and our tax code should reflect that to attract as many of them to the US as possible.

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: charrison


The example stated is the exception, not the rule. Most corperations do pay taxes, but no doubt they all attempt to game the system to keep the taxes at a minimum. However, as i stated earlier this ia very fixable problem, make corperation pay a low marginal rate with simple rules and this probably for the most part will disappear.

I beg to differ - it IS the rule. To such an extent that when I set up my own corporation two years ago, the company that assisted me getting incorporated out of state was very insistent that I set up an overseas adjunct - because everyone else was doing it. The list of US corporations incorporated outside the US in the islands reads like a Who's Who. Corps that I personally KNOW to be include Accenture and Staples, although you WILL NOT find that info on their website, anywhere, due to the negative PR. I suppose if you own stock you would see it in the annual report. The point is - it's a hard fact to find out (I only know because of work that I have done with them both recently).

Just because you change the marginal rates does not mean that companies will stop - after all - the setup costs are high, the price for restructuring the corp would be high again. And they can simply argue to themselves that their competitors will not have stopped...and they have to compete. So no one will stop offshoring income hiding...it's too lucrative, and they are too good at it.

And last, but not least, NO ONE in the boardroom wants to look like the wimp: "Oh, you want us to PAY taxes? Fscking pvssy..."

All that lowering the tax rate will accomplish is to further drive the US into deficit from which we cannot recover, and will be further held by the Chinese...

Future Shock

It appears that both staples and accenture are doing a poor job of dodging taxes.

staples
accenture

Have any more examples?

Large corperations are voluntary tax payers, meaning they have the means the go where they get the best deal and our tax code should reflect that to attract as many of them to the US as possible.

1) Corporations are NOT voluntary tax payers - they may be denied licences to operate a business in that country if the central government has the balls to back up their own tax code. Even if you incorporate offshore, you STILL need a valid US license and possibly a state license(s) as well. That is why (see below) even the companies operating offshore STILL declare some US taxes...just as little as possible that they feel they can get away with.

2) Staples 2005 Revenue: $14 Billion
Staples 2005 Gross Profit: $4 Billion
Staples 2005 Tax: $.4 Billion

They are able to reduce $14Billion of Revenue to $4B in Gross Profit. Most of that is legitimately the Cost of Goods sold. PART of that would be the moving of profit offshore or to susidiaries that I described above. So even if you ignore the offshore hiding of profits, they are still only paying 10% tax rate on their gross profit, or ~20% on their net profit. And of that reduction from gross to net, it includes some fairly hefty charges for interest and other expenses that are perfectly legal, but highly questionable if you want a flat tax on income.


So let's see - a company doing $14B in revenue, generating a healthy profit of nearly $4B, is paying corporate taxes of only $400M... - and you want to REDUCE THAT?

Future Shock

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

1) Corporations are NOT voluntary tax payers - they may be denied licences to operate a business in that country if the central government has the balls to back up their own tax code. Even if you incorporate offshore, you STILL need a valid US license and possibly a state license(s) as well. That is why (see below) even the companies operating offshore STILL declare some US taxes...just as little as possible that they feel they can get away with.

2) Staples 2005 Revenue: $14 Billion
Staples 2005 Gross Profit: $4 Billion
Staples 2005 Tax: $.4 Billion

They are able to reduce $14Billion of Revenue to $4B in Gross Profit. Most of that is legitimately the Cost of Goods sold. PART of that would be the moving of profit offshore or to susidiaries that I described above. So even if you ignore the offshore hiding of profits, they are still only paying 10% tax rate on their gross profit, or ~20% on their net profit. And of that reduction from gross to net, it includes some fairly hefty charges for interest and other expenses that are perfectly legal, but highly questionable if you want a flat tax on income.


So let's see - a company doing $14B in revenue, generating a healthy profit of nearly $4B, is paying corporate taxes of only $400M... - and you want to REDUCE THAT?

Future Shock

1.You really should ask for a refund from your top 15 school as it appears they did not give you your moneys worth. Corperations are voluntary tax payers as they have the means to move operations to get the best available deal. This should not even be up for debate. You dont even fully understand why companies incorperate offshore. Under current US tax code companies must pay taxes on all profits, no matter where the profits are earned. For mulitational companies this is very bad as for example they will have to pay taxes on profits earned in Germany and then pay US taxes on top of that. This put US companies at a disadvantage in the world market. However if they incorperate offshore they will continue to pay taxes on profits made in the US to the US, they will continue to pay taxes to germany for profts made in germany. However they will no longer pay US taxes on profits made in germany.

IF you dont think corperations are voluntary tax payers, ask yourself why

1. Profts in the US are taxed at 38% for $15-$18, but anything above $18 the rate falls to 35%?
2. Why did the swedesh economy collapse when they raised the tax rate too high?
3. Why china is attracting corperations from worldwide with a 10% corperate tax?

I doubt you will want to answer any of those...


but on point 2.
Someone from a top 15 school should be able to read a balance sheet and you are doing them a great service by not telling everyone where you went to school. Staples total income after operating expenses was $1.1B with them paying $400M in taxes. This yeilds a net rate of about 36%. This is hardly a company that is dodging taxes.