China establishes 'air-defence zone' over East China Sea

[WelshBloke]

You know, I'd love to know how much of a hand that Obama had in this assinine decision. He's made some incredibly stupid foreign policy moves, and allowing China to declare an area as 'theirs' and then giving credence to that claim by obeying it is simply shameful.

The US should have moved a carrier group into the area and escorted every non-Chinese plane safely through the zone.

And youre happy to pay for that?

How long do you want to keep paying for it?

 

[rommelrommel]

No doubt, the only country that could stand up against its threat in the future is India. USA would not go beyond a point.
India is bogged down by corrupt political establishment. And as such would be taken over by china pretty soon if they don't get there acts together.
The only stong leader is a Hindu nationalist 'Modi', which others don't want and only he have the capability to make everlasting changes and answer back to China in its own language.

Lay off the pipe dude... India?

 

[Screech]

If you are a pilot and would prefer to stay alive anywhere, you always try to follow all relevant NOTAMs, no matter how asinine they are.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

No doubt, the only country that could stand up against its threat in the future is India. USA would not go beyond a point.
India is bogged down by corrupt political establishment. And as such would be taken over by china pretty soon if they don't get there acts together.
The only stong leader is a Hindu nationalist 'Modi', which others don't want and only he have the capability to make everlasting changes and answer back to China in its own language.

That is a big issue with India and in part why they have not gone full bore with free market liberalization plans as China has done itself to a much greater extent. Thus this why they still languish behind China economically when in theory and on paper India should be in the lead by all rights. Thus the political issues faced in India that prevent free market reforms is the reason why China has become so economically dominant in Asia while India tends to lag behind China in many categories where it should theoretically be leading or on par.

Hence this is precisely because of the point you mentioned in regards with the Indian government that is still clinging to the reigns of centralized control over certain sectors of the economy and has yet to let go and thus has slowed India's economic development. That doesn't mean however the India cannot catch up or not reap any rewards once it finally stops trying to control those segments of its economy and instead allow the free market to take over however the political process in India is just going to make getting to that point in time longer than it should and make the cost of getting there a lot higher than it should be in the end.

 

[EagleKeeper]

You know, I'd love to know how much of a hand that Obama had in this assinine decision. He's made some incredibly stupid foreign policy moves, and allowing China to declare an area as 'theirs' and then giving credence to that claim by obeying it is simply shameful.

The US should have moved a carrier group into the area and escorted every non-Chinese plane safely through the zone.

And youre happy to pay for that?

How long do you want to keep paying for it?

We already have a carrier group in the general area; They just need to be moved into the baloney ADIZ area.

No real extra costs.

 

[rommelrommel]

That is a big issue with India and in part why they have not gone full bore with free market liberalization plans as China has done itself to a much greater extent. Thus this why they still languish behind China economically when in theory and on paper India should be in the lead by all rights. Thus the political issues faced in India that prevent free market reforms is the reason why China has become so economically dominant in Asia while India tends to lag behind China in many categories where it should theoretically be leading or on par.

Hence this is precisely because of the point you mentioned in regards with the Indian government that is still clinging to the reigns of centralized control over certain sectors of the economy and has yet to let go and thus has slowed India's economic development. That doesn't mean however the India cannot catch up or not reap any rewards once it finally stops trying to control those segments of its economy and instead allow the free market to take over however the political process in India is just going to make getting to that point in time longer than it should and make the cost of getting there a lot higher than it should be in the end.

Why would India be leading China in anything? Much less land mass, less natural resources, less education, less infrastructure...

 

[Dari]

Why would India be leading China in anything? Much less land mass, less natural resources, less education, less infrastructure...

Less land mass means more efficient infrastructure. And that means more resources spent on other things. But China is a huge political mess with almost as many languages as Africa.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Where did 2timer run off to? Off Topic??

 

[Dari]

Here are more Chinese reactions, compiled by Chinasmack. Lots of nonsense but also lots of knowledge in there.

http://www.chinasmack.com/2013/stor...-over-air-defense-zone-chinese-reactions.html

 

[5150Joker]

No doubt, the only country that could stand up against its threat in the future is India. USA would not go beyond a point.
India is bogged down by corrupt political establishment. And as such would be taken over by china pretty soon if they don't get there acts together.
The only stong leader is a Hindu nationalist 'Modi', which others don't want and only he have the capability to make everlasting changes and answer back to China in its own language.

China would whip India's ass so bad it wouldn't be funny, just like they did in the past.

Less land mass means more efficient infrastructure. And that means more resources spent on other things. But China is a huge political mess with almost as many languages as Africa.

You obviously don't know anything about India. It probably has more languages than any other country on the planet. Civil and religious strife is also high in India with constant tension between Hindus/Sikhs/Muslims. Then there's also Pakistan that routinely enjoys being a thorn in India's side and is propped up by China. India is good for call centers and cheap IT jobs, that's about it. In all other measures it doesn't come close to China. The only two countries in Asia that could stand up to China are ROK and Japan and fortunately they also have a treaty with the USA. Those 3 are more than enough to quell any Chinese expansionist ambitions.

 

[WelshBloke]

We already have a carrier group in the general area; They just need to be moved into the baloney ADIZ area.

No real extra costs.

Escorting every plane flying through that area is going to cost a fair bit plus your carrier group is going to be stuck there for an indeterminate time.

If china declares another one will you move another carrier group there as well?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Escorting every plane flying through that area is going to cost a fair bit plus your carrier group is going to be stuck there for an indeterminate time.

If china declares another one will you move another carrier group there as well?

Carrier group is to show that the ADIZ is not valid; It is not to put a fighter along side of every commercial flight.

Put the group out for a normal 1-2 weeks exercise and prove the point.


China military, I do not think is crazy to generate an airliner shootdown. They may send fighters to escort an airliner out of the area.

In that case; Fighters can scramble from Formosa or Okinawa also if there are no carrier based planes in the area.

 

[Dari]

China would whip India's ass so bad it wouldn't be funny, just like they did in the past.



You obviously don't know anything about India. It probably has more languages than any other country on the planet. Civil and religious strife is also high in India with constant tension between Hindus/Sikhs/Muslims. Then there's also Pakistan that routinely enjoys being a thorn in India's side and is propped up by China. India is good for call centers and cheap IT jobs, that's about it. In all other measures it doesn't come close to China. The only two countries in Asia that could stand up to China are ROK and Japan and fortunately they also have a treaty with the USA. Those 3 are more than enough to quell any Chinese expansionist ambitions.

I meant India when I said China. But, no, India does not have more languages than Africa. Africa has over 4K, India 2-2.5K.

 

[WelshBloke]

Carrier group is to show that the ADIZ is not valid; It is not to put a fighter along side of every commercial flight..

Post I was replying to said...

The US should have moved a carrier group into the area and escorted every non-Chinese plane safely through the zone.

Which is why I mentioned the cost.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Carrier group is to show that the ADIZ is not valid; It is not to put a fighter along side of every commercial flight..

Post I was replying to said...

The US should have moved a carrier group into the area and escorted every non-Chinese plane safely through the zone.

Which is why I mentioned the cost.

In that case; I fully agree with you and the poster who put that up was not thinking. I was under the impression your were talking about stationing the carrier group; never considered that such an idiotic suggestion about escorting was in your mind. It is not like escorting a tanker through the straights.

There are probably 50 flights a day that transit that area.

 

[WelshBloke]

There are probably 50 flights a day that transit that area.

Which is why I was a bit :\

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Why would India be leading China in anything? Much less land mass, less natural resources, less education, less infrastructure...

India had to a degree less centralize planning affecting its economy than China back in the day when India was head deep into socialist attempts to control major segments of the economy prior to 90's free market reforms. Thus India had a chance to quickly pass up China once it head toward a path of free-market reforms but its government has so far been its biggest hinderance and obstacle in acting as a anchor to expanding these reforms to entire sectors still dominated by government regulation and/or control in its economy.

Additionally India does have lots of natural resources to tap from and it is not a resource poor country. Which is what can say about Japan for example where approximately only 20% of its landmass is suitable for building upon and roughly 11% to 12% suitable for farming and they must rely upon the importation of metals, fuel and other resources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_resources_of_India

Education wise that is also an issue in which the Indian government has failed to adequately address over the decades in the nation. However China has until the the 90's also suffered from educational issues. Especially with its citizens in rural parts of China who historically have had higher illiteracy rates.

However since China has boomed economically this has caused a rather large population shift/migration of people from rural areas into cities and opened up many opportunities and incentives for individuals in China to seek out educational opportunities. This economic boom has also lowered the cost of entry to parents seeking to have their child educated and having the means by which they can afford to pay for that education.

 

[Svnla]

Another good article about how powerless china is to do anything about its new air power but more hot air and lies. We will see if china will dare to challenge the US or will be seen as "paper tiger":

China did nothing to intervene as the U.S. bombers passed through the area. China claimed that the aircraft had been detected and monitored as they flew through the area for more than two hours. A foreign ministry spokesman denied suggestions that China had been powerless to defend the airspace. "The Chinese government has the will and ability to defend our national sovereignty and security," said Qin Gang. "We also have the ability to exercise effective control over the East Sea Air Defense Identification Zone."

Chinese academics said Beijing would be unable to ignore these breaches of its authority for long. "If the United States conducts two or three more flights like this, China will be forced to respond. If China can only respond verbally it would be humiliating," said Sun Zhe, a professor at Tsinghua University in Beijing told Reuters. "The concept of the paper tiger is very important.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-b-52-bombers-to-pick-a-fight-with-china.html

 

[Balt]

If the Chinese are going to be tailing aircraft, let's hope they choose better pilots than they did back in 2001.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident