• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Children's Health Insurance Program Headed for Cuts

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Originally posted by: Fern


This is typical of many posts here - see a headline and without bothering to check, run to the forums and scream how Repub's wanna eat your babies etc.

I'd say you've just performed a wonderfully effective demonstration of not "let[ting] facts and cost effectiveness come in the way of ideology" (I.e, Repubs *bad*, Dems *good*)

From the Admin:

H.R. 3162 is objectionable on several fronts. First, as a general matter, the legislation is structured in a way that clearly favors government-run health care over private health insurance. The result of this approach would be a dramatic encroachment of government-run health care resulting in lower quality and fewer choices, which the American people have repeatedly rejected. Second, the legislation dramatically expands Federal spending far beyond what is necessary to reauthorize SCHIP responsibly. Third, it will result in the elimination of benefits and choices for millions of Medicare beneficiaries including both senior citizens and individuals with disabilities. Fourth, it would weaken scrutiny of Medicare?s unsustainable fiscal path by eliminating a current law provision that informs the American people when Medicare?s financial condition has deteriorated. Fifth, it weakens the ability of States to cover unborn children under their SCHIP programs. Finally, it imposes a massive, regressive tax increase.

It also appreas that there is concern that this bill roles back tax benefits (deduction) for those paying their health insurance. I strongly oppose that.

(More information on the above list of concerns can be found at the White House site the above poster linked.)

While I am strongly in favor of coverage for children (and have previously expressed that here many times) IMO one must keep a watchful on the details in a bill, instead of just reading the headlines, before deciding to support it.

There are many many valid concerns to this amendment to the original program. Given Congress's demonstarted sloppiness in drafting & passing bills how one could cry foul over closer scruntiny etc is partisan silliness.

Finally, and contrary to the assertions of many here, the Pres does support an increase of the program to the tune of $5 Billion IIRC. But feel free to continue on with your baseless *propoganda*.

Fern

I don't think that a White House press release is a very good place to get info on this. Even that snippet is littered with half truths, inaccuracies, and outright lies. If you are going to use an analysis of the bill's merits and drawbacks, you should not use a source with so little credibility.

EDIT: Screwed up the quotes.
 
^ But it is a good summary of concerns. There are no doubt others out there if you don't like the two already referenced.

No use in using the actual bill. Too long, too complicated.

Fern
 
Originally posted by: Fern
^ But it is a good summary of concerns. There are no doubt others out there if you don't like the two already referenced.

No use in using the actual bill. Too long, too complicated.

Fern

Wait...."No use in using the actual bill...." take the WH's opinions, spin and fear-mongering of "the Dems' are handing the country to the illegals!!" ?

Yeah, that sounds like a really good option. :roll:
 
That White House response is littered with baseless and misleading rightwing cliches which to me just means they are yet again using ideology and not common sense to guide themselves.
They are again trying to confuse government run health insurance with government run health care. Just because the government pays for the program doesn't mean you have to see a government physician with it. I am not sure where you find government physicians outside of VA and health dept anyways.
If private insurers don't provide affordable coverage to these children, they should not stay in the way of the government doing so, and sacrifice children's health for their own profits.
 
Originally posted by: dyna
Its a political game by the democrats. It has nothing to do with actually helping the children.

Exactly. And it never has.

I'm sorry, $83,000 a year, you don't need the government paying for your children's health insurance.
 
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Fern
^ But it is a good summary of concerns. There are no doubt others out there if you don't like the two already referenced.

No use in using the actual bill. Too long, too complicated.

Fern

Wait...."No use in using the actual bill...." take the WH's opinions, spin and fear-mongering of "the Dems' are handing the country to the illegals!!" ?

Yeah, that sounds like a really good option. :roll:

Look, I've actually looked up the bill. It's horrendously long (465 pages) and chock-a-block with technical terms I'm unfamilair with. To pullout selected sections and think you understand it with 100% certainty is foolish. You're basically gonna have to be a lawyer specializing in that area to properly understand the bill.

Otherwise, yes I prefer to hear from both sides and then go investigate for myself. In this case understanding the bill is beyond my abilities. I'm gonna have to rely on others.

At this point, I prefer that they just extend the existing provision *as is*, and get increased funding if they need it.

"Take the WH's opinion etc", What BS, I didn't advise that. I do advise at least listening to it before you start criticising a veto.

Fern
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
That White House response is littered with baseless and misleading rightwing cliches which to me just means they are yet again using ideology and not common sense to guide themselves.

-snip-


Bwuhahahah, you claim to be sufficiently competant to have already read and grasp all the complexities and efffects of this bill? And how it interacts with teh various state programs?

That's beyond believable. Your claims of "baseless and misleading" are baseless. You don't know what you're talking about. At best it's a guess, at worse partisan hackery - just acting like a Dem sheeple and accepting their assertions at face value.

Fern
 
when a liberal speaks, you first have to question the "facts" they are stating...typically the truth is exactly the opposite of what they state as fact...basically, NEVER believe ANYTHING they state as fact, because it always turns out to be a lie.

to wit:

Bush has not proposed a "cut" in children's health insurance coverage. On the contrary, he has actually proposed an increase!!. Bet you never knew that!!

Bush proposed increasing the 25 billion (over 5 years) program by 5 billion a year!! Geez, that looks like DOUBLING the spending to me!!!


But the Dems want to play politics, so they jack up the proposed spending even more, and include stuff they know will make Bush veto the bill...then they call up the media and complain that Bush hates kids ("let'm die!!").

The Senate proposed to spend 7 billion a year more, the House 10 billion a year more.....and apparently a massive tax increase is planned to pay for it.

So when a leftie says "Bush wants to cut spending on xxx" , just know this, the leftie is lying...
 
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
when a liberal speaks, you first have to question the "facts" they are stating...typically the truth is exactly the opposite of what they state as fact...basically, NEVER believe ANYTHING they state as fact, because it always turns out to be a lie.

So when a leftie says "Bush wants to cut spending on xxx" , just know this, the leftie is lying...

QFT. This is just Democrats playing politics as usual. I guess the 18% approval rating for Congress is going to head lower...
 
Originally posted by: Fern

Look, I've actually looked up the bill.

If you read the bill, Fern, you would have found the following (which basicly makes a liar out of the congressman from Alabama and calls bullshit on the Bush White House:

Subtitle D--Populations
SEC. 131. OPTIONAL COVERAGE OF CHILDREN UP TO AGE 21 UNDER CHIP

(a) In General Section 2110(c)(1) of the Social Security Act is amended inserting `(or, at the option of the State, under 20 or 21 years of age)' after `19 years of age'.

SEC. 132. OPTIONAL COVERAGE OF LEGAL IMMIGRANTS UNDER THE MEDICAID PROGRAM AND CHIP

(4)(A) A State may elect . . . .
... for aliens who are lawfully residing in the United States
... `(i) PREGNANT WOMEN- Women during pregnancy (and during the 60-day period beginning on the last day of the pregnancy).

The complete text of the bill can be viewed at THOMAS, GovTrack.US, or the gov't printing office


I note, again, for the hard or reading:

What the republican boo-birds are most concerned with, and the primary reason that DubCo has threatened the legislation with his veto pen is:

The House bill would begin to crack the Medicare Advantage program - DubCo's privatization of Medicare best identified with the infamous prescription drug program.

You remember. The drug program they said would cost $380 billion. The Big Pharma Giv-a-way. The one that actually costs $700 billion. The one where the Republican House illegally held the vote open nearly all night so they could twist arms to pass it . . .

That's what the right-wingers are really pissed about. A big giant rollback of corporate welfare

 
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
when a liberal speaks, you first have to question the "facts" they are stating...typically the truth is exactly the opposite of what they state as fact...basically, NEVER believe ANYTHING they state as fact, because it always turns out to be a lie.

Are you retarded? I mean that.

EDIT: Same goes for you Pabster. You people are like black holes.
 
Aww, I hit a nerve, again, this time with Shivetya-

Got to leave it to Jhhn to drag the war in this, to idiots on the left just mentioning Iraq in any coversation suddenly makes their boneheaded or deceit laden ideas valid. They had to find something other than their typically insipid responses.

It's a matter of priorities- Bushco obviously believes that elective war and occupation for nonsensical reasons is much more important than the health of America's children. Waging war isn't free, after all, particularly when your ideological pals are in a contractor porkbarrel feeding frenzy... and you just sort of misplace $9B in cash...

And it's obviously most important to avoid any threat to their corporate welfare pharma pork program, aka the medicare drug program...

And this-

Brainless thinks ERs are the reason for rising healthcare costs? hahahahaahahahahaha

Resorting to personal attack is the last bastion of the intellectually and argumentatively challenged, so I welcome it- it tells me the author is caught in their own denial, incapable of rational examination of their position...

ER care is actually more expensive than ordinary care, and conditions left to arrive at a crisis are often extremely expensive to remedy, which is precisely what happens with America's un- and under- insured. They can't afford to go to the doctor, but they have to when it gets bad enough. Even childhood diseases occasionally become life-threatening, and it's a lot easier to treat a variety of conditions before they become crises, demanding extraordinary measures and often avoidable long term consequences...

 
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: dyna
Its a political game by the democrats. It has nothing to do with actually helping the children.

Exactly. And it never has.

I'm sorry, $83,000 a year, you don't need the government paying for your children's health insurance.

Health insurance is very expensive, and can take a big chunk out of your paycheck. 83,000 may sound like a lot for a family of four, but subtract taxes, mortgage payments, and then health insurance, and you'll only have 20-30 thousand a year to spend on things, and in New York, that isn't much, considering the cost of things.

You'll also be paying premiums and copays, like regular health insurance. This is just to cover your children if you don't have a job that offers it. The parents still won't be covered, and I'm sure that if they could afford it, they would get coverage for their whole family.

Again, this isn't a step towards universal coverage. This is hardly an inkling. The true reforms will come in 09.
 
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
when a liberal speaks, you first have to question the "facts" they are stating...typically the truth is exactly the opposite of what they state as fact...basically, NEVER believe ANYTHING they state as fact, because it always turns out to be a lie.

So when a leftie says "Bush wants to cut spending on xxx" , just know this, the leftie is lying...

QFT. This is just Democrats playing politics as usual. I guess the 18% approval rating for Congress is going to head lower...

Good to see Republicans going into 2008 on the platform of denying health coverage to children. Sounds like a political winner.
 
Good to see Republicans going into 2008 on the platform of denying health coverage to children. Sounds like a political winner.

They're going down, anyway- might as well do it in a fit of ideological glory... pandering to their base while engaging in corporate welfare.

It's consistent, that's for sure...
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
when a liberal speaks, you first have to question the "facts" they are stating...typically the truth is exactly the opposite of what they state as fact...basically, NEVER believe ANYTHING they state as fact, because it always turns out to be a lie.

So when a leftie says "Bush wants to cut spending on xxx" , just know this, the leftie is lying...

QFT. This is just Democrats playing politics as usual. I guess the 18% approval rating for Congress is going to head lower...

Good to see Republicans going into 2008 on the platform of denying health coverage to children. Sounds like a political winner.

Denying something federal funds should not provide. Big difference, although not to you I imagine
 
Children's Heath Insurance Program Headed for Cuts

the title of this thread is a lie.

The children's health insurance program is headed for an increase. the only question is how much.

Are you retarded? I mean that.
Hard to get upset with you kids..run along now and play with the other lefties..
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Can someone please show me where the "cuts" are?

There aren't any. Dems propose a $35B to $50B increase in funding in the program. Bush wants to limit any increase to no more than $25B.

In partisan politics newspeak, this equals "drastic cuts which are going to harm America's children."

Nevermind that you get quotes like this:
?We?ve got a ready-made program here that?s working,? said Sen. Bob Casey (D-Pa.) a proponent of the $35 billion expansion. ?We shouldn?t change something that?s working.?
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Aren?t you one of the people always bitching about the deficit and debt?

Won?t cutting government programs help to balance the budget?

Not necessarily? How would having kids getting medical care through the ER balance the budget? But if you mean ending the war and cutting defense spending, then I am with you.

Yes, that's right cut the one thing our Constitution insured as being provided by the Federal Government. Brilliant!
 
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Aren?t you one of the people always bitching about the deficit and debt?

Won?t cutting government programs help to balance the budget?

Not necessarily? How would having kids getting medical care through the ER balance the budget? But if you mean ending the war and cutting defense spending, then I am with you.

Yes, that's right cut the one thing our Constitution insured as being provided by the Federal Government. Brilliant!

General welfare FTW. I don't remember where in the constitution it says we need to be in Iraq.
 
Oh good, a broad interpretation of general welfare which means there is nothing that does NOT fall under federal control.
 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Oh good, a broad interpretation of general welfare which means there is nothing that does NOT fall under federal control.

The problem being? Haven't you Republicans killed enough Americans in Iraq, you now need to keep killing American kids at home by denying them health coverage?
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
http://www.newsday.com/news/lo...4aug28,0,2265068.story
Under the new eligibility rules, a state must show that a child whose family earns more than 250 percent of the poverty level must have been uninsured for a year.

Hear that, sick kids, just tough it out for a year, small price to pay to prove to Republicans that you need health insurance.

Why don't you fill out the rest of the quote?

a state must also show that 95 percent of children in families making less than 200 percent of the poverty level are enrolled in the child health program or Medicaid.

State lawmakers wanted permission to cover children whose family income was as much as 400 percent of the poverty level, or $82,600. It estimates the extended coverage could add 60,000 children to the program.

In other words, the feds want to make sure that kids in families making less than 200% of the poverty level get served first before kids in families that have more money...because they are more likely to need it. These people are pure evil!
 
Back
Top