Chicago to force retailers to pay $13/hour

[Reckoner]

Driving an automobile is a privilege- I wouldn't expect a company to foot the bill on gas, or auto insurance.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
What about the sweatshops in the various regions of the world? Are people there because they want to be? No, it's because they don't see another viable alternative.

They are there because working in a factory is a damn site better than starving in the hills or slaving in a cold wet field all day just barely producing enough to subsist.

So you find that acceptable then? Case closed? I don't find that acceptable. It's barbaric.

So you have no rational argument as to why it is horrible, except that in relative terms it is worse than an American office job?

Are we still talking about sweatshops in other parts of the world? If so, what about hazardous working conditions, 16 hour workdays, horrible wages, and no benefits to speak of?

again, all of these things are better than the alternatives:
a) Starving
b) Subsistence farming

if it wasn't better than going out to the back country and growing just enough to feed yourself, why are billions flocking to the cities?

 

[Pikachu]

I wouldn't expect a company to foot the bill on gas, or auto insurance.

And yet, they should be expected to pay for health insurance? WTF? The Socialists we live among make me sick.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
Amused, you seem to view this as black and white. I don't see how anyone can judge an issue like this in that light. What happened to humanity? You and eye will never see eye to eye on this. I believe everyone deserves a liveable wage.

No one deserves more than they produce.

If you want a "liveable wage" you have to EARN it.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: waggy


So you find that acceptable then? Case closed? I don't find that acceptable. It's barbaric.

then go to those regions of the world and do something about it then. i see a lot of talk from you and thats it.[/quote]

Or stay here and refuse to shop at wallyworld like me. That and support local cities that force walmart to do what they find reprehensible....lower their greedy profits and quit sucking off society to supplement what they wont give to their hard working employee...decent wage and insurance

rant/over 🙂

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: pontifex
why only retailers?

doesn't quite make sense.
although it is good for the employees. i don't know how anyone can live off of minimum wage.

it won't be good for employees... stores will hire less people, charge a higher price to stay in business, and people will start driving elsewhere to buy cheaper stuff, eventually lead to businesses closing, which leads to unemployment at the end.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: sniperruff
[

it won't be good for employees... stores will hire less people, charge a higher price to stay in business, and people will start driving elsewhere to buy cheaper stuff, eventually lead to businesses closing, which leads to unemployment at the end.

Pass me that crystal ball I want to see if I am getting laid tonight.

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
I'm in favor of anything that stunts the expansion of a sweatshop like Walmart.

Nothing like cutting off your own nose to spite your face.

And if Walmart wasn't a decent employer, they wouldn't be able to staff their stores. Employement is not slavery. It is a mutual agreement.

I think their turnover rate would paint a picture in stark contrast to the rose-colored drivel you're trying to push on me.

Again, no one is forced to work at Walmart. They are there because they want to be.

That's such a cop out answer, it's ridiculous. What about the sweatshops in the various regions of the world? Are people there because they want to be? No, it's because they don't see another viable alternative. Not everyone can afford a college education. Not everyone has what it takes to create their own enterprise. Should they have to suffer for that? I don't think so.

No, that's a fact of life. There are plenty of alternatives available.

Employment is not slavery. An employer owes you nothing more than what you agreed to at the time you BOTH agreed to trade labor for money.

Should people with the ambition and ability to produce be forced to inequitably support the lives of those who will not? No.

Sorry, but "from each according to their ability to each according to their need" failed miserably.

Poverty is not a mortgage on the labor of others - misfortune is not a mortgage on achievement - failure is not a mortgage on success - suffering is not a claim check.

Amused, you seem to view this as black and white. I don't see how anyone can judge an issue like this in that light. What happened to humanity? You and eye will never see eye to eye on this. I believe everyone deserves a liveable wage.

but he's right. unless sweatshops in other countries, people who work at walmart can easily just quit and get a job at kmart or target or whatever. they have many many choices.

everyone who works in walmart speaks english, and most are able-bodied. why not find a new job if they are so evil and oppressive?

as for walmart being evil and bullying for lower prices from suppliers... that's what a business is supposed to do: maximize profits for its investors.

as for unions, i think the union itself is pretty inefficient: you have the employers paying money to the union, then you have employees paying union fees. out of alk my jobs that are unionized, the union has been pretty useless to me or everyone else.

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: sniperruff
[

it won't be good for employees... stores will hire less people, charge a higher price to stay in business, and people will start driving elsewhere to buy cheaper stuff, eventually lead to businesses closing, which leads to unemployment at the end.

Pass me that crystal ball I want to see if I am getting laid tonight.

it's just common sense. you expect businesses to throw money at chicago just because they want to serve the people? please. they can only close up or gain extra revenue to stay afloat.

 

[shoRunner]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: sniperruff
[

it won't be good for employees... stores will hire less people, charge a higher price to stay in business, and people will start driving elsewhere to buy cheaper stuff, eventually lead to businesses closing, which leads to unemployment at the end.

Pass me that crystal ball I want to see if I am getting laid tonight.

just like he didn't need a crystal ball to see that, know one needs a crystal ball to know your not getting "laid" tonight.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: waggy


So you find that acceptable then? Case closed? I don't find that acceptable. It's barbaric.

then go to those regions of the world and do something about it then. i see a lot of talk from you and thats it.

Or stay here and refuse to shop at wallyworld like me. That and support local cities that force walmart to do what they find reprehensible....lower their greedy profits and quit sucking off society to supplement what they wont give to their hard working employee...decent wage and insurance

rant/over 🙂

[/quote]

hahaha this is the argument that always makes me laugh.

the idea that everyone works any job and get the same wage as others has been tried and failed.

Walmart does what every business does. They make an agreement with a person to work for a wage. both agree to it.

Nobody is forced to work at walmart. though i did for a short time while in high school. it was good pay (better then fast food) and better hours.

as for insurance if someone wants it then find a job that offers that as a bonus.




people always say give them good wages, insurance etc. but complain if prices or services are cut. walmart offers the best prices (on some items) around. there is a reason they are so big and powerful.

 

[chuckywang]

Hello layoffs.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: sniperruff
[

it won't be good for employees... stores will hire less people, charge a higher price to stay in business, and people will start driving elsewhere to buy cheaper stuff, eventually lead to businesses closing, which leads to unemployment at the end.

Pass me that crystal ball I want to see if I am getting laid tonight.

it's just common sense. you expect businesses to throw money at chicago just because they want to serve the people? please. they can only close up or gain extra revenue to stay afloat.

sure they will cut back. but i do not beleive that it will be noticable. the pay is already pretty good in chicago (well compared to the burbs anyway) and the big stores will make enough profit to justify being in busines.

now i do think they will not have so many stores. the rate of expansion just won't be as fast. some will decide not to open that extra kmart or target in a area that may be a risk.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: waggy





people always say give them good wages, insurance etc. but complain if prices or services are cut. walmart offers the best prices (on some items) around. there is a reason they are so big and powerful.

The reason they are so profitable is because they know no limits. The bargain shop to the end on suppliers and will force a supplier out of business in a heartbeat.

Then they advocate paying teen age girls .14 cents per hour in some third world nation, 7 days a week, 12-14 hr days.

They pay .21 cents overseas ship it here, and charge you $13 for it.

They pay help so lousy and with no meanifull benefits so they are eligible for assistance in your state.

They bribe politicians with huge "donations" employ hundreds of lobbists to twist the system to increase their profit.

But hey if you want to support that you can save .07 cents on a can of green beans the next time you go there, of course you probably pay and extra .10 cents in tax to support their children, lower income tax revenue, right down to lower sales tax revenue. Plus add in any tax incentives your local town gave them to open the store.

Walmart is a very smart business model, hopefully other companies like yours or mine dont wake up to how much more they can make for their shareholders or we will all be screwed.

Walmart artificially devalues prices, Chicago wants to call them out on it.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: waggy





people always say give them good wages, insurance etc. but complain if prices or services are cut. walmart offers the best prices (on some items) around. there is a reason they are so big and powerful.

The reason they are so profitable is because they know no limits. The bargain shop to the end on suppliers and will force a supplier out of business in a heartbeat.

Then they advocate paying teen age girls .14 cents per hour in some third world nation, 7 days a week, 12-14 hr days.

They pay .21 cents overseas ship it here, and charge you $13 for it.

They pay help so lousy and with no meanifull benefits so they are eligible for assistance in your state.

They bribe politicians with huge "donations" employ hundreds of lobbists to twist the system to increase their profit.

But hey if you want to support that you can save .07 cents on a can of green beans the next time you go there, of course you probably pay and extra .10 cents in tax to support their children, lower income tax revenue, right down to lower sales tax revenue. Plus add in any tax incentives your local town gave them to open the store.

Walmart is a very smart business model, hopefully other companies like yours or mine dont wake up to how much more they can make for their shareholders or we will all be screwed.

Walmart artificially devalues prices, Chicago wants to call them out on it.

hehe and you are very naive or stupid to think walmart is the only one that does it.


ahh but i forget its the popular thing to bash walmart.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

hooray! now all merchandise goes up. the money to pay the labor comes from somewhere!

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: waggy

hehe and you are very naive or stupid to think walmart is the only one that does it.


ahh but i forget its the popular thing to bash walmart.

[/quote]

I shop at target, better products, nicer stores, better neighborhoods and shoppers. If that makes me stupid in your eyes....eh

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
I'm in favor of anything that stunts the expansion of a sweatshop like Walmart.

Nothing like cutting off your own nose to spite your face.

And if Walmart wasn't a decent employer, they wouldn't be able to staff their stores. Employement is not slavery. It is a mutual agreement.

I think their turnover rate would paint a picture in stark contrast to the rose-colored drivel you're trying to push on me.

Again, no one is forced to work at Walmart. They are there because they want to be.

That's such a cop out answer, it's ridiculous. What about the sweatshops in the various regions of the world? Are people there because they want to be? No, it's because they don't see another viable alternative. Not everyone can afford a college education. Not everyone has what it takes to create their own enterprise. Should they have to suffer for that? I don't think so.

Agreed, I can't believe Amused can be so short sighted it's mind boggling.

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: Citrix
i wonder how much of a price hike the store will have to impliment to make up for the profit loss.

Something I'm willing to pay for, I don't care if I have to pay a dollar extra on clothing or a computer product if that means that I don't have to spend an extra $5000+ a year on social services because these people can't afford to live like this. I don't think people understand the consequences of having 'slave labour', when you do this, you pay at least 2X as much in paying for services for making up for the fact that people can't live on low wages and therefore you negate any savings from paying them less in hourly wages. People are so short sighted it's fscking hilarious.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Philippine Mango

Originally posted by: Citrix
i wonder how much of a price hike the store will have to impliment to make up for the profit loss.

Something I'm willing to pay for, I don't care if I have to pay a dollar extra on clothing or a computer product if that means that I don't have to spend an extra $5000+ a year on social services because these people can't afford to live like this. I don't think people understand the consequences of having 'slave labour', when you do this, you pay at least 2X as much in paying for services for making up for the fact that people can't live on low wages and therefore you negate any savings from paying them less in hourly wages. People are so short sighted it's fscking hilarious.

Got any empirical data?

 

[Pikachu]

Gawd, this whole fvcking forum is filled with the next generation of "the entitled".

 

[JonTheBaller]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: waggy

ahh but i forget its the popular thing to bash walmart.

I shop at target, better products, nicer stores, better neighborhoods and shoppers. If that makes me stupid in your eyes....eh

HAHAHAHA So you don't shop at big evil Wal-Mart, but you'll shop at Target. You're really going to change things by shopping at Target instead of Wal-Mart, Mr. Big Liberal Idealist.

 

[JonTheBaller]

Originally posted by: Philippine Mango

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
I'm in favor of anything that stunts the expansion of a sweatshop like Walmart.

Nothing like cutting off your own nose to spite your face.

And if Walmart wasn't a decent employer, they wouldn't be able to staff their stores. Employement is not slavery. It is a mutual agreement.

I think their turnover rate would paint a picture in stark contrast to the rose-colored drivel you're trying to push on me.

Again, no one is forced to work at Walmart. They are there because they want to be.

That's such a cop out answer, it's ridiculous. What about the sweatshops in the various regions of the world? Are people there because they want to be? No, it's because they don't see another viable alternative. Not everyone can afford a college education. Not everyone has what it takes to create their own enterprise. Should they have to suffer for that? I don't think so.

Agreed, I can't believe Amused can be so short sighted it's mind boggling.

Amused is very good at using Common Sense when it comes to a competitive economy.

 

[cubby1223]

We are finally getting our first Wal-Mart here this summer. *sniff* it makes me so proud, we can finally call ourselves a true American town now!

I hate Wal-Mart though. But it's not the only problem in our area. The only new businesses many of the small towns in the county get are strip malls filled with a few minimum wage jobs. Not only that, the developer is usually from Texas, and they demand couple million dollar tax breaks before they will commit to building the strip malls. So basically, the strip malls syphon money from our towns and return near nothing... In other words, Wal-Mart is just a small problem in the big scheme of everything wrong.

 

[Pikachu]

...it's not the only problem in our area.

Good God, what a damn catastrophe! What will people do with the time saved by not having to drive to BFE for every little need? What will kids do with an extra choice of places to work? How will the city ever spend the extra taxes flowing in? Oh, the horror!