Chicago shooting Mercy hospital

[SlowSpyder]

What you traitor conservaterrorists don't understand is 25 years ago when I was a teenager..
We used to go to the movies or the malls for fun.
We used to look forward to going to school in the morning to be with our friends.
We used to want to drive our muscle cars.
We knew the enemies were Russians.

Now we have daily shootings in malls, movie theaters, schools, road rage incidents and we're so demented we don't even know who the real enemy is.

The truth is that getting killed by a gun in America is very, very unlikely. But the news loves the sensationalized stories, it generates ad revenue. So stories about guns are magnified, but the reality is guns are far less deadly than second hand smoke, alcohol, cars, etc. So if you're not shitting your pants about those things that are more likely to kill you, then you shouldn't be shitting your pants about guns either.

 

[K1052]

The truth is that getting killed by a gun in America is very, very unlikely. But the news loves the sensationalized stories, it generates ad revenue. So stories about guns are magnified, but the reality is guns are far less deadly than second hand smoke, alcohol, cars, etc. So if you're not shitting your pants about those things that are more likely to kill you, then you shouldn't be shitting your pants about guns either.

What would constitute an unreasonable level of gun deaths in America? Is there such a figure?

 

[SlowSpyder]

What would constitute an unreasonable level of gun deaths in America? Is there such a figure?

I say any gun homicide is too many and we should work towards zero. That doesn't mean taking away constitutional rights, though.

Also, if we're willing to live with 50,000 innocent people a year dying from second hand smoke, and no politician is working towards bettering that, then how much do we restriction the 2A over 12,000 unwanted deaths a year due to homicide?

 

[shortylickens]

What would constitute an unreasonable level of gun deaths in America? Is there such a figure?

I dunno. But lots of inanimate objects kill people every day and for the most part, no one suggests banning them.

We banned alcohol. That actually led to more violence. Americans had to accept the problem was with people, not alcohol.

I wish Americans would accept there is no such thing as a gun problem. Its a people problem.

We just happen to have worse people than most of the world.

 

[Indus]

Your glorious leader, Obozo, said that the Russians are not the enemy and that we should give them more flexibility and uranium.

This just in.. uranium isn't killing Americans but guns are.

 

[K1052]

That doesn't mean taking away constitutional rights, though.

So such a figure does not exist in your mind.

 

[K1052]

I dunno. But lots of inanimate objects kill people every day and for the most part, no one suggests banning them.

We banned alcohol. That actually led to more violence. Americans had to accept the problem was with people, not alcohol.

I wish Americans would accept there is no such thing as a gun problem. Its a people problem.

We just happen to have worse people than most of the world.

So Americans are especially violent and that explains our high murder rate?

 

[SMOGZINN]

The truth is that getting killed by a gun in America is very, very unlikely.

Getting killed in America is very, very unlikely. Full stop. Hundreds of millions of people manage not to get killed in America every day. Why ban anything? Shit statistics come to shit conclusions.

but the reality is guns are far less deadly than second hand smoke, alcohol, cars, etc. So if you're not shitting your pants about those things that are more likely to kill you, then you shouldn't be shitting your pants about guns either.

Tell that to MADD, SADD, TADD, DARE, NIAAA, IDDPA, American Lung Association, The Foundation for a Smokefree America, ASH, FinishIT, National Cancer Institute, Truth.org, smokefree.gov, The Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, Tobacco.org, Daily Tobacco News... I could literally spend the rest of the day listing anti-smoking and drinking, and car safety advocacy groups. People certainly care about smoking, drinking, cars, and just about everything else that kills people. Firearms are just one more then we are working on.

I dunno. But lots of inanimate objects kill people every day and for the most part, no one suggests banning them.

Lead paint, Asbestos, Chlorofluorocarbon, Halogenated salicylanilides, Hexachlorophene, Mercury. Once again I could list things all day long. There is thousands of things banned because we found out they were seriously dangerous.

I wish Americans would accept there is no such thing as a gun problem. Its a people problem.

We just happen to have worse people than most of the world.

People are people wherever you go. We have a culture problem. Part of that problem is a love of guns.

 

[IJTSSG]

Getting killed in America is very, very unlikely. Full stop. Hundreds of millions of people manage not to get killed in America every day. Why ban anything? Shit statistics come to shit conclusions.



Tell that to MADD, SADD, TADD, DARE, NIAAA, IDDPA, American Lung Association, The Foundation for a Smokefree America, ASH, FinishIT, National Cancer Institute, Truth.org, smokefree.gov, The Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, Tobacco.org, Daily Tobacco News... I could literally spend the rest of the day listing anti-smoking and drinking, and car safety advocacy groups. People certainly care about smoking, drinking, cars, and just about everything else that kills people. Firearms are just one more then we are working on.




Lead paint, Asbestos, Chlorofluorocarbon, Halogenated salicylanilides, Hexachlorophene, Mercury. Once again I could list things all day long. There is thousands of things banned because we found out they were seriously dangerous.




People are people wherever you go. We have a culture problem. Part of that problem is a love of guns.

Freedom is a real bitch isn't it.

Are we back to blaming the inanimate object again.

 

[shortylickens]

Getting killed in America is very, very unlikely. Full stop. Hundreds of millions of people manage not to get killed in America every day. Why ban anything? Shit statistics come to shit conclusions.



Tell that to MADD, SADD, TADD, DARE, NIAAA, IDDPA, American Lung Association, The Foundation for a Smokefree America, ASH, FinishIT, National Cancer Institute, Truth.org, smokefree.gov, The Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, Tobacco.org, Daily Tobacco News... I could literally spend the rest of the day listing anti-smoking and drinking, and car safety advocacy groups. People certainly care about smoking, drinking, cars, and just about everything else that kills people. Firearms are just one more then we are working on.




Lead paint, Asbestos, Chlorofluorocarbon, Halogenated salicylanilides, Hexachlorophene, Mercury. Once again I could list things all day long. There is thousands of things banned because we found out they were seriously dangerous.




People are people wherever you go. We have a culture problem. Part of that problem is a love of guns.

I was thinking of cars.
And ladders.
and knives.

And lots of countries have people that love guns. They still dont shoot themselves or each other in the same numbers as us.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Freedom is a real bitch isn't it.

Are we back to blaming the inanimate object again.

Freedom is. But no freedom is really unlimited. I don't know anyone that owns a rocket launcher.
Why do we not allow rocket launchers to be sold at Walmart? It is just an inanimate object.

I was thinking of cars.
And ladders.
and knives.

All of those items have uses that outweigh their danger. There is no real use for a gun that outweighs it's danger. For any other item like that we ban it.

And lots of countries have people that love guns. They still dont shoot themselves or each other in the same numbers as us.

Most of them have strict control on guns. Few countries have the sort of love affair with guns we have, and the ones that do have similar problems as us. Look at Australia. They had a problem similar to ours, banned guns and it lead to a change in their culture.

 

[shortylickens]

Freedom is. But no freedom is really unlimited. I don't know anyone that owns a rocket launcher.
Why do we not allow rocket launchers to be sold at Walmart? It is just an inanimate object.



All of those items have uses that outweigh their danger. There is no real use for a gun that outweighs it's danger. For any other item like that we ban it.



Most of them have strict control on guns. Few countries have the sort of love affair with guns we have, and the ones that do have similar problems as us. Look at Australia. They had a problem similar to ours, banned guns and it lead to a change in their culture.

Thats your OPINION. it is not a fact.
And because you are so self-assured, you will not consider the issue with an open mind or change your opinion, like too many other people in America.

And last I heard Australias armed robberies did not decrease after they banned guns. (Not from the NRA, some other source. NRA is dangerously biased).

 

[SMOGZINN]

Thats your OPINION.

Wait, what part was my opinion? That they don't sell rocket launchers at Walmart? I am fairly certain that is fact.
That the advantages of ladders/knifes/cars outweigh the dangers? I guess that is opinion. But, I think I can make a pretty strong argument for it.

That there is no real use for a gun that outweighs it's danger? Maybe for a very, very few people it might not be true, but really how many people use their guns for anything useful that is not vastly outweighed by the danger they represent? Few people need to hunt for food. If you are using it in self defense it is dam well dangerous to someone.

I am a fairly open minded person. But I have thoroughly thought this through. For the vast majority of people, for the vast majority of the time, a firearm does not have any use that outweighs it's danger to themselves, and society as a whole. It is the same argument of that rocket launcher. Sure you might use it to stop a plane from smashing into a sky scraper. But you are much more likely to kill your whole family while drunkenly showing it off.

And last I heard Australias armed robberies did not decrease after they banned guns. (Not from the NRA, some other source. NRA is dangerously biased).

From Wikipedia

Between 1991 and 2001, the number of firearm-related deaths in Australia declined by 47%.

Australia's 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides."

A 2015 journal article in the International Review of Law and Economics evaluated the effect of the NFA on overall crime, rather than just firearm deaths like other studies. Using the difference in differences identification approach, they found that after the NFA, "there were significant decreases in armed robbery and attempted murder relative to sexual assault".

The most notable thing about Australia's gun ban is that since they implemented it they have not had another mass shooting (defined as above) in more than 20 years.

 

[Jhhnn]

Did this guy get his gun from IN or WI? Why is it the gun violence rates are so high in blue strongholds but that trend isn't state wide (Chicago, Milwaukee, etc. vs. the rest of their respective state)?

It doesn't matter. I merely point out that strict illinois gun laws don't really matter in the context of neighboring states.

 

[DrDoug]

The URL posted shows any number of people greater than three injured or killed as a mass shooting. I disagree with that being a mass shooting, but whatever, so long as it is consistent then it can tell a story. But to me, that isn't what I would consider a mass shooting. Clearly in the listed shootings there were situations where no one died and three people were injured and it was called a mass shooting.

The media lies about school shootings, higher numbers and more fantastic headlines get more clicks and views, more revenue. Everything, including shootings, are sensationalized.

Now that you've dismissed the F.B.I. metric for what constitutes a mass shooting in America, why don't you call them and enlighten them so they can update their metric to your approval. Meanwhile, those of us who understand the English language also understand that "mass shooting" is just that, a shooting where three or more people are injured or killed. You are trying to redefine a mass shooting as one where people are killed, while the rest of us would call that mass murder. Mass murder and mass shootings go hand in hand but you can have a mass shooting without a single death.

I believe in accurate statistics and some of those statistics are showing that more people are getting wounded and/or killed every day and it's only getting worse. Since you choose to dismiss this out of hand all I can say about people like you is that I hope one day that you realize that you too can become one of those statistics.

As far as I'm concerned, if we are going to have mass shootings then let them find people like you to shoot. You don't care anyway, right?

 

[shortylickens]

It doesn't matter. I merely point out that strict illinois gun laws don't really matter in the context of neighboring states.

Federal bans dont do much either. Guns, like drugs (and sadly people) get smuggled in by plane, boat, or foot traffic across the border.

Its the DESIRE to have guns that makes people dangerous. And they will get ahold of them one way or another. Just like drugs.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Getting killed in America is very, very unlikely. Full stop. Hundreds of millions of people manage not to get killed in America every day. Why ban anything? Shit statistics come to shit conclusions.



Tell that to MADD, SADD, TADD, DARE, NIAAA, IDDPA, American Lung Association, The Foundation for a Smokefree America, ASH, FinishIT, National Cancer Institute, Truth.org, smokefree.gov, The Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, Tobacco.org, Daily Tobacco News... I could literally spend the rest of the day listing anti-smoking and drinking, and car safety advocacy groups. People certainly care about smoking, drinking, cars, and just about everything else that kills people. Firearms are just one more then we are working on.

That's a stupid way of looking at it. We're focusing on what does kill people, not that a relativeily small amount of people die each day.

Wow, you listed some clubs and online presences that are against tobacco and alcohol. Similar anti-2A groups exist too. Whoopdido! What politician is running on a platform of limiting the much bigger killers, alcohol or tobacco? You could "literally" spend all day listing other anti-whatever groups? You're trying way too hard.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

What you traitor conservaterrorists don't understand is 25 years ago when I was a teenager..
We used to go to the movies or the malls for fun.
We used to look forward to going to school in the morning to be with our friends.
We used to want to drive our muscle cars.
We knew the enemies were Russians.

Now we have daily shootings in malls, movie theaters, schools, road rage incidents and we're so demented we don't even know who the real enemy is.

25 years ago the gun murder rate was almost 2x that of today. You kind of remind me of my mom when she complains how she didn't have to worry about kidnappings when she was a kid but the stats say kidnapping was far higher back in her day. Or like my neighborhood facebook group members who complain about how thefts are skyrocketing and how this place used to be safe and they are moving out...yet if you check crime stats, we're doing historically well.

It's easy to fall victim to the mentality that something is happening a lot more often just because you hear about it a lot more than you used to. Maybe it's because it is reported more now. Or posted on facebook more often. Or lights up on freeway Amber alert signs that we never had 25 years ago. Does the media have an agenda? Of course...it's agenda is to make money. And violence, death, and controversy make money for them.

 

[Jhhnn]

Federal bans dont do much either. Guns, like drugs (and sadly people) get smuggled in by plane, boat, or foot traffic across the border.

Its the DESIRE to have guns that makes people dangerous. And they will get ahold of them one way or another. Just like drugs.

Gun smuggling into this country is quite rare. Illegal exports are quite common, particularly to Mexico. The cartels just love their AR's.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

The URL posted shows any number of people greater than three injured or killed as a mass shooting. I disagree with that being a mass shooting, but whatever, so long as it is consistent then it can tell a story. But to me, that isn't what I would consider a mass shooting. Clearly in the listed shootings there were situations where no one died and three people were injured and it was called a mass shooting.

The media lies about school shootings, higher numbers and more fantastic headlines get more clicks and views, more revenue. Everything, including shootings, are sensationalized.

Yawn. Old canard about media lies about gun violence is old canard. Typical modern fake conservative rhetoric to hide lie ignore the fact that gun violence is out of control in US and that 2nd amendment rights have achieved nothing but death.

And no one gives a crap how you define a mass shooting... Considering your loose definition of truth.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

25 years ago the gun murder rate was almost 2x that of today. You kind of remind me of my mom when she complains how she didn't have to worry about kidnappings when she was a kid but the stats say kidnapping was far higher back in her day. Or like my neighborhood facebook group members who complain about how thefts are skyrocketing and how this place used to be safe and they are moving out...yet if you check crime stats, we're doing historically well.

It's easy to fall victim to the mentality that something is happening a lot more often just because you hear about it a lot more than you used to. Maybe it's because it is reported more now. Or posted on facebook more often. Or lights up on freeway Amber alert signs that we never had 25 years ago. Does the media have an agenda? Of course...it's agenda is to make money. And violence, death, and controversy make money for them.

o rly (also, thanks NRA for the "Dickey Amendment"

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

The truth is that getting killed by a gun in America is very, very unlikely. But the news loves the sensationalized stories, it generates ad revenue. So stories about guns are magnified, but the reality is guns are far less deadly than second hand smoke, alcohol, cars, etc. So if you're not shitting your pants about those things that are more likely to kill you, then you shouldn't be shitting your pants about guns either.

And no, second hand smoke does not kill more people than guns, the data simply isn't accurate so we have no idea if second hand smoke kills anyone,

 

[shortylickens]

I'm about to post another graph and piss off EVERYONE HERE!!!

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm about to post another graph and piss off EVERYONE HERE!!!

Which has a very low correlation to mass shooting deaths, the subject of this thread.

 

[SlowSpyder]

What's shocking is that the hospital was a gun free zone. See how much good that did? Just another example of a rights restricting do-nothing law that affects only law abiding gun owners that the evil doers dismiss. More over reaching and under performing liberal anti-gun bullshit.