Chicago firefighters may be hired for race, even if underqualified

[drebo]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37329473

In this latest case, officials told applicants who scored below 89 but above 64 on a 1995 test that they had passed but likely wouldn't be hired as firefighters because a large number of test-takers had scored 89 or above. The majority of those in the top-scoring group were white; only 11 percent were black.

Admittedly, the article is about a ruling that the lower court CAN hear the case, and not about the case itself. However, the fact that this hasn't been outright dismissed is proof positive that our nation is far too entitlement-minded.

Being stupid and black is now more of an entitlement than being smart and whatever color? Great.

 

[CycloWizard]

The federal government has been doing this for years by giving jobs to veterans whether or not they meet any qualifications. Need a PhD in engineering and 5+ years of experience on a rare piece of engineering equipment for a job - or 5+ years of military service, since they are equivalent. I'm all for helping out veterans, but this is a bit much. This nation will absolutely fail if merit is removed as a basis for hiring decisions. It has already begun.

 

[CanOWorms]

The federal government has been doing this for years by giving jobs to veterans whether or not they meet any qualifications. Need a PhD in engineering and 5+ years of experience on a rare piece of engineering equipment for a job - or 5+ years of military service, since they are equivalent. I'm all for helping out veterans, but this is a bit much. This nation will absolutely fail if merit is removed as a basis for hiring decisions. It has already begun.

I am interested in knowing what sort of position a PhD is applying for if someone with 5+ years of military experience is a substitute. They should be applying for completely different positions.

 

[Linflas]

I am interested in knowing what sort of position a PhD is applying for if someone with 5+ years of military experience is a substitute. They should be applying for completely different positions.

They can't. They have to meet all the qualifications anyone else has to meet. Given identical qualifications which the government scales with a point system the veteran gets +5 points for being a veteran and I believe +10 if a disabled veteran. If the position requires a PhD then the vet will have to meet that requirement just the same as a non-vet.

VETERANS' PREFERENCE - Veterans' preference recognizes the economic loss suffered by citizens who have served their country in uniform in times of strife, restores veterans to a favorable competitive position for Government employment, and acknowledges the larger obligation owed to disabled veterans.
Historically, Congress has reserved preference for those who were either disabled, who served in combat areas or during certain periods of time.

Veterans who qualify as preference eligibles (meaning they typically must have served on active duty for at least 2 years during a period of war or in a campaign or expedition for which a campaign badge is authorized, or be disabled) are entitled to an additional 5 or 10 points added onto their earned rating in a competitive civil service examination. In all other situations (for example, selection from a merit promotion list or other "internal" action such as reassignment, transfer, or reinstatement), veterans' preference is not a factor.

Veterans' preference was intended to give eligible veterans an extra assist in getting a job with the Government and in keeping it in the event of a reduction in force. Veterans' preference does not guarantee the veteran a job. Veterans' preference should not be confused with the special appointing authorities such as the VRA which allow eligible veterans to be appointed noncompetitively to the competitive service.

How Federal Jobs are Filled

 

[waggy]

They can't. They have to meet all the qualifications anyone else has to meet. Given identical qualifications which the government scales with a point system the veteran gets +5 points for being a veteran and I believe +10 if a disabled veteran. If the position requires a PhD then the vet will have to meet that requirement just the same as a non-vet.

yeah i was going to point this out. cyclowizard is full of shit.

 

[rudder]

The federal government has been doing this for years by giving jobs to veterans whether or not they meet any qualifications. Need a PhD in engineering and 5+ years of experience on a rare piece of engineering equipment for a job - or 5+ years of military service, since they are equivalent. I'm all for helping out veterans, but this is a bit much. This nation will absolutely fail if merit is removed as a basis for hiring decisions. It has already begun.

Don't mean to sidetrack the OP, but government jobs are given out based on points. True being a veteran gives you extra points, but you still need the qualifications for the job to get enough points to even be eligible for an interview.

 

[MotF Bane]

I don't want the most qualified firefighters when my house is burning; I want them to display proper racial diversity.

 

[highland145]

I don't want to be the under qualified firefighter in a burning house.

 

[LordGestle]

I was told point blank by several fire fighters during career fairs and etc that since I was white it would be more difficult for me to find a job based on the current hiring practices. It was at the point where several recommended to not waste my time.
I chose another career and moved on.
Interesting enough that other career had a downsizing at one point in which the only person left was an older female and non-white (out of 7 people). She was far from the best person, however the company wanted to avoid a potential lawsuit so they laid everyone else off but her for several reasons.
I'm not bitter and believe discrimination is bad in any condition. They should choose candidates based on experience, education, and any other qualifing measure excluding race.

 

[ElFenix]

They can't. They have to meet all the qualifications anyone else has to meet. Given identical qualifications which the government scales with a point system the veteran gets +5 points for being a veteran and I believe +10 if a disabled veteran. If the position requires a PhD then the vet will have to meet that requirement just the same as a non-vet.



How Federal Jobs are Filled

o|/|/n3d

 

[CycloWizard]

I am interested in knowing what sort of position a PhD is applying for if someone with 5+ years of military experience is a substitute. They should be applying for completely different positions.

A research position within the Department of Veterans Affairs. Yes, they should be applying for different positions.

 

[shortylickens]

They need to deliberately hire all the worst qualified people to fill slots and when shit goes tits up, people will finally quit crying about fairness and worry more about whats reasonable. Knowing what I do about the American public, a picture of a dead baby on the news would trump about 500 race cards.

 

[jhu]

A research position within the Department of Veterans Affairs. Yes, they should be applying for different positions.

You should post a link to the job that you're referring to.

 

[CycloWizard]

You should post a link to the job that you're referring to.

It was posted back in April 2008... I don't think it's online anymore.

 

[Zargon]

Im surprised chicago would fight such a thing!

 

[jhu]

It was posted back in April 2008... I don't think it's online anymore.

A quick search finds jobs like this where PhD is preferred but not actually required. I would surmise that they would place people appropriately once acquired.

 

[CycloWizard]

A quick search finds jobs like this where PhD is preferred but not actually required. I would surmise that they would place people appropriately once acquired.

Exactly. I get 5-10 points for veteran status. How many points is a PhD worth? It doesn't say. How many points do I get for relevant experience? No idea. It's a black box hiring method which feigns objectivity based on an undisclosed point system. The only part of the process that is transparent is that it is not merit-based.