Chew on this: ATI makes GPU, nVidia makes NB's!

[Avalon]

Burger King fries, Wendy's chicken sandwiches. You know you can't beat that.

 

[0roo0roo]

somethings just cannot be sped up beyond a point. if spending more $$$ = much faster product, wouldn't you think one company would eventually find a way to do just that and dominate the market?

 

[dmw16]

First off, McD's fries are the best.

Secondly, ATi no longer has the GPU market 100% under its control. The new nVidia offerings are great.

 

[kamper]

Originally posted by: MangoTBG

Lets look back when the 9700Pro and 9500Pro arrived. Let's also say nVidia wasn't around. Alright, so all of the Gear-Heads go and buy the 9700Pro $400 the prosumers go and buy the 9500Pro. 6 months down the road the 9700pro has dropped in price so more people are buying them, some who had bought the 9500pro are even upgrading to the 9700pro. Six more months down the line the videocards are even cheaper because people are buying less of them. Why? Because most of everyone already has them. So now even good ol' Grandma and Grandpa can afford the $100 9500pro. We fast forward a year and you're getting a 9500pro just for filling up your tank with gas at the local stop'n'shop.

And why would the prices drop when there is no competition? The only reason they drop now is because they simply wouldn't sell when people start anticipating the next generation. I'm sure if either company could comfortably leave 2 years between each generation the prices would not drop nearly as fast.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Naustica
I wish Wendy's would combo their hamburgers with McDonald's fries.

you remember the $2.99 combos @ carls back in day?

 

[Avalon]

I don't know why people like mcdonald's fries so much. They are salty toothpicks. Burger King and Checkers fries are way better

 

[wetcat007]

Originally posted by: Naustica
I wish Wendy's would combo their hamburgers with McDonald's fries.

You've gotta be kidding me wendy's fry's are WAY WAY WAY better tha McDonalds!

 

[MangoTBG]

Originally posted by: kamper

Originally posted by: MangoTBG

Lets look back when the 9700Pro and 9500Pro arrived. Let's also say nVidia wasn't around. Alright, so all of the Gear-Heads go and buy the 9700Pro $400 the prosumers go and buy the 9500Pro. 6 months down the road the 9700pro has dropped in price so more people are buying them, some who had bought the 9500pro are even upgrading to the 9700pro. Six more months down the line the videocards are even cheaper because people are buying less of them. Why? Because most of everyone already has them. So now even good ol' Grandma and Grandpa can afford the $100 9500pro. We fast forward a year and you're getting a 9500pro just for filling up your tank with gas at the local stop'n'shop.

And why would the prices drop when there is no competition? The only reason they drop now is because they simply wouldn't sell when people start anticipating the next generation. I'm sure if either company could comfortably leave 2 years between each generation the prices would not drop nearly as fast.

Why would it drop? I'm pretty sure I covered that. Let me give you another example. Let's say you have a product called "Kamper's Love Toy". It's a one-of-a-kind product that you dominate the market...simply because no one else is there to compete with you. You sell your Love Toy for $500. EVERYONE wants one! Your problem is not everyone has $500 for that Toy de Love (that's french if you didn't know). So what do you do, kemper? Your sales are plummeting. All the rich girls and boys already have your toy and are happily enjoying it being "the first on the block" to have it...and paying a pretty penny to be able to say that they were the first. Any answer for what to do? You cut prices! Yay! Now those people that were holding out to find them for the price of $400 are ready to buy them. Once your sales start dropping again, what do you do? Yup, you've got it...it's another price drop. Now all the boys and girls who's parents would only buy it when they were $300 will buy them.

And in case that doesn't help you out, let me give you the "plainest-most-simplest" answer I can give you. The reason why prices would drop is to increase demand for the product. When a new graphics card comes out there is extremely high demand for it. Once that demand drops to a certain point where sales are beginning to look bad you lower the price of the product to increase the demand for the product. There doesn't need to be competition for a company like ATi to lower prices.

 

[stickybytes]

burger king fries are crisp and crunchy
mcdonalds fries are dry and soft

they're like absolute opposites so no they will never work together.

 

[SneakyStuff]

Several flaws in your "utopian world" nokiadude. Consider the professional community, the Quadro series does very well there. What about the low end market? Consumers pick up FX5200's like mad, and they're better than the Radeon 9200's they compete with. ATI just got its' foothold a few years ago anyway. Keep in mind, the gamers market is an EXTREME minority in the whole scheme of things. nVidia knows what they're doing, there are so many worlds of GPU's, the mobile world's important too. Bottom line, who cares if ATI is better for now, competition drives prices down, and thats all I could ask for, i'll buy from ATI or nVidia I have no bias there. In fact, i'm looking into a 9800 pro now.

 

[dudeman007]

Originally posted by: SneakyStuff
Several flaws in your "utopian world" nokiadude. Consider the professional community, the Quadro series does very well there. What about the low end market? Consumers pick up FX5200's like mad, and they're better than the Radeon 9200's they compete with. ATI just got its' foothold a few years ago anyway. Keep in mind, the gamers market is an EXTREME minority in the whole scheme of things. nVidia knows what they're doing, there are so many worlds of GPU's, the mobile world's important too. Bottom line, who cares if ATI is better for now, competition drives prices down, and thats all I could ask for, i'll buy from ATI or nVidia I have no bias there. In fact, i'm looking into a 9800 pro now.

Not to mention creates a "race" for new technology creating faster video cards which means more powerful games.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: NokiaDude
Think about it, what if ATI put all their $$$ in R&D since they didn't have to compete with nVidia for the GPU market? Then they could design the most powerful GPU. nVidia could then quit R&D on their GPU's and concentrate on motherboard chipsets. IMHO, nVidia makes the best motherboard chipsets while ATI makes the best GPU's.

Can you please tell me what the point of putting $$$ into R&D is if you no longer need to compete with anyone? Back in my Soviet Union days, driving the same car for 30 years was fine and dandy until one day everyone just snapped and got tired of it all....I don't think we want the same thing here.

Besides, Nvidia does not make the best motherboard chipsets. Intel makes the best motherboard chipsets. They are great at overclocking, come with native SATA (most SATA ports), CSA ethernet, Matrix RAID, and a whole bunch of other goodies (like Native Command Queueing), making them the most technologically advanced. Add to the fact that Intel chipsets hold a significant advantage over its competitors and do take advantage of the dual channel setup like it's meant to be (nforce 2 *cough*cough*)

Also you are making it sound like Nvidia sucks at making graphics card when ATI has only been in the lead for 2 years and now the competition got very very close. It is true that ATI currently owns 75% of the high end market, but I wouldn't consider the 6800gt/ultra series bad cards to say the least. You are also forgetting many more problems with ATI drivers that have turned away many users from their cards, their horrible support for linux, poor CAD performance and unstable dual monitor support.

Anyways, competition is good, nuff said.

 

[imported_Nacelle]

Originally posted by: sharq
Steak and Shake's shakes, Mc Donalds fries, and Hardees 6dollar burger. AKA heart attack for ~$8.

I'll second that.

Wendy's hamburgers with Burger King onion rings!

WTF, I have never tasted onion rings that sux as bad as BK's. They gind up the onions and reshape them into rings. Now Arbys onion petals are the shiznits.

 

[MangoTBG]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Can you please tell me what the point of putting $$$ into R&D is if you no longer need to compete with anyone? Back in my Soviet Union days, driving the same car for 30 years was fine and dandy until one day everyone just snapped and got tired of it all....I don't think we want the same thing here.

I'll refer you to my posts. Someone obviously doesn't read the whole thread. And to compare having a monopoly to communism is flat out silly.

Anyways, competition is good, nuff said.

Atleast you got something right.

 

[kamper]

Originally posted by: MangoTBG

Originally posted by: kamper

Originally posted by: MangoTBG

Lets look back when the 9700Pro and 9500Pro arrived. Let's also say nVidia wasn't around. Alright, so all of the Gear-Heads go and buy the 9700Pro $400 the prosumers go and buy the 9500Pro. 6 months down the road the 9700pro has dropped in price so more people are buying them, some who had bought the 9500pro are even upgrading to the 9700pro. Six more months down the line the videocards are even cheaper because people are buying less of them. Why? Because most of everyone already has them. So now even good ol' Grandma and Grandpa can afford the $100 9500pro. We fast forward a year and you're getting a 9500pro just for filling up your tank with gas at the local stop'n'shop.

And why would the prices drop when there is no competition? The only reason they drop now is because they simply wouldn't sell when people start anticipating the next generation. I'm sure if either company could comfortably leave 2 years between each generation the prices would not drop nearly as fast.

Why would it drop? I'm pretty sure I covered that. Let me give you another example. Let's say you have a product called "Kamper's Love Toy". It's a one-of-a-kind product that you dominate the market...simply because no one else is there to compete with you. You sell your Love Toy for $500. EVERYONE wants one! Your problem is not everyone has $500 for that Toy de Love (that's french if you didn't know). So what do you do, kemper? Your sales are plummeting. All the rich girls and boys already have your toy and are happily enjoying it being "the first on the block" to have it...and paying a pretty penny to be able to say that they were the first. Any answer for what to do? You cut prices! Yay! Now those people that were holding out to find them for the price of $400 are ready to buy them. Once your sales start dropping again, what do you do? Yup, you've got it...it's another price drop. Now all the boys and girls who's parents would only buy it when they were $300 will buy them.

And in case that doesn't help you out, let me give you the "plainest-most-simplest" answer I can give you. The reason why prices would drop is to increase demand for the product. When a new graphics card comes out there is extremely high demand for it. Once that demand drops to a certain point where sales are beginning to look bad you lower the price of the product to increase the demand for the product. There doesn't need to be competition for a company like ATi to lower prices.

I still disagree. If they lower the prices they pull the rug out from underneath their own feet. The faster they saturate the market with the best cards the faster they have to come out with a new and improved product line to get people to throw out their old cards. I think that serious R&D and short turnovers for an entire chip design would be much more expensive than settling into a process of producing and slowly improving a well-understood card.

If they keep prices a little steadier they will always have the steady income from the lowend cards that go to people that aren't looking for the latest and greatest; and as we all know its not the high end glamour battles that pay the bills. You'd also have people upgrading to the higher end cards because they feel that they're not sinking money into something that will be obsolete in 6 months. Sure, not as many cards are being sold overall but they're going for a higher price and you've got lower operating costs to boot.

Anyways, until someone shows me an economics degree I figure we won't know because it isn't going to happen and my opinion (at least) is just that, an opinion.

 

[Rabb]

You cant blame Nokiadude for not understanding about competition....

As we all know Nokia is a Finish company IE scandinavian. We also all know that Scandinavians are a people perfectly happy to pay 70% of their income in taxes for the "good of the society" IE socialism. Socialists just can't comprehend that lack of competition is BAD.

If you want a real world example just look at Creative.... They defacto CONTROL the soundcard market... Boy has there been alot of R&D there right?? So much so infact that there has been no reason to upgrade my SBlive original soundcard since its 1998ish release.

And your right about monopolies do drop their prices eventually. But they also will never drop their prices to the lvl that perfect competition allows. This is more advanced economics but basically a monopoly prices their products based on kinked demand curves. Which means they try to capture as much marginal revenue (which is fancy talk for selling each and every product for as much money sa the customeris willing to pay IE a perfectly tiered pricing system that gets one person to pay $35 the other $34 who wouldnt have bought at 35 ect) from consumers as possible.

The other part of a monopoly is service. Many early monopolies did not make a killing on their actual products. What they did do was start exclusive service contracts for their products (IBM/xerox of the 50s for historical perspective). To translate this to the computer world would be akin to charging customers for driver updates and patches and because they are a monopoly and they are the only ones who can provide service to their monopoly product. Just look at economic history if you don't think that would happen.....

 

[Koudelka]

Tricks are for kids, silly Rabbit!

 

[iwantanewcomputer]

wendy's burgers + mcdonalds burgers

you people don't know anything. best food for your buck in order are
99 cent jr. bacon cheesburger wendy's
1.00 double cheeseburger mickey d's
1.00 McChicken sandwich mickey d's

my ideal meal
2 of each, that comes in at 5.98 for 6 great sandwiches

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: Megatomic
No way, Burger King burgers with McDonald's fries would rule!

This is so true. There's more bread than meat on a Mc'D's burgers. However Wendy's I think uses Grade A meat.

 

[Koudelka]

Originally posted by: iwantanewcomputer
wendy's burgers + mcdonalds burgers

you people don't know anything. best food for your buck in order are
99 cent jr. bacon cheesburger wendy's
1.00 double cheeseburger mickey d's
1.00 McChicken sandwich mickey d's

my ideal meal
2 of each, that comes in at 5.98 for 6 great sandwiches

What are you smoking? McD's burgers are nothing but a big ass ball of grease and bread. I guess if you like that they're good

 

[Avalon]

Burger King burgers > Wendy's burgers
Wendy's just pwns at chicken based sandwiches and frosties.

Wait, wait, I've changed my mind.
Krystal/White Castle > ALL!

 

[RockGuitarDude]

The monopoly to communism analogy is perfectly valid because in both cases the element of competition is totally eliminated. This is why I will root for AMD until they have a 40%-50% market share. The graphics card market is much more competitive. Both companies nearly doubled performance over their last line of cards. Why? Because they HAD to. Intel can/could get away with releasing a worse product (not saying the do) because they have 80% market share. If AMD started creeping up Intel's share, you wouldn't see that much of an ability to pull that off.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: Avalon
Burger King burgers > Wendy's burgers
Wendy's just pwns at chicken based sandwiches and frosties.

Wait, wait, I've changed my mind.
Krystal/White Castle > ALL!

Krystal/White Castle is only edible after 3 am when you're too drunk to know you're eating steamed meat.

Chick-fil-A has the best chicken sandwiches although Wendy's Spicy Chicken is not bad. Micky D fries are great along with Rally's battered fries. But Micky D fries have gone down hill since they stopped using beef fat grease to fry their fries after Islam lawsuit.

Burger King used to be great with their Whopper but they really suffered from lack of directions and switch to poor quality ingredients. They're trying to correct it now but it's going to take some time before their quality is same as years past.

 

[yhelothar]

NVIDIA doesn't even need to stop R&D for their GPU's to make better NBs. They already make the best NBs without doing so.

Nokiadude: you have no idea how the market works.

 

[badnewcastle]

Originally posted by: ingenuiti
someone needs to take some introductory econ courses to see the effects of no competition.

One of the biggest failure in the Soviet Union was the lack of competition for any industry!!!

ATI and NVIDIA working together may drop the quality we get now...

But maybe that would make some market space for some other manufacturers to get in...

Who knows, but if I had to make a perfect combo it would be an In-n-Out 4x4 with Jack in the box Chili Cheese fries & a White Cherry Slurpee form 7Eleven!