Chevrolet, Ford outsell Toyota in April

[sapiens74]

Camry's, Toyota's best selling cars are all made here in the US.

They last long, are great cars and Toyota makes then here.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: sapiens74
Camry's, Toyota's best selling cars are all made here in the US.

They last long, are great cars and Toyota makes then here.

Except the transmissions blow up.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Saturn, down 56.4 percent to 7,367

[/L]

<=== Saturn owner :brokenheart:

Same. It's because Saturn is being discontinued and it is shaking consumer confidence.

Yep. Saturn always was the stepchild of GM. Now it's worse.

I find it especially sad as over the past decade Saturn has been improving at a rapid gait.

I think getting rid of some low end vehicles and selling 18k plus the past year or two in a down market has hurt them pretty bad though.

I'll miss Saturn.

RIP, you built me a wonderful car.

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Perhaps rednecks are being protectionist? Quality sure hasn't picked up in the last 5 years.

So Rednecks are the only one's buy Fords and GM's? No, people who want real trucks are buying them. Toyota does not have a real truck...close, but the frame is still not on par with GM or Ford. Crawl underneath one and they are still using a weaker c-channel frame, vs. the hydroformed fully boxed frame that GM and Ford have. Not to mention that Toyota took a hit over the Tundra engine failures.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: sapiens74
Camry's, Toyota's best selling cars are all made here in the US.

They last long, are great cars and Toyota makes then here.

Except the transmissions blow up.

That's why JD Power rated the Camry #2 in dependability in midsize cars. And rated the Camry among the best for overall dependability and for powertrain dependability.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Perhaps rednecks are being protectionist? Quality sure hasn't picked up in the last 5 years.

So Rednecks are the only one's buy Fords and GM's? No, people who want real trucks are buying them. Toyota does not have a real truck...close, but the frame is still not on par with GM or Ford. Crawl underneath one and they are still using a weaker c-channel frame, vs. the hydroformed fully boxed frame that GM and Ford have. Not to mention that Toyota took a hit over the Tundra engine failures.

Uh, you may want to look at the 2009 JD Power Dependability study here.

The highest ranked truck for dependability, the 2006 Toyota Tundra.

"In its final year before a complete redesign for the 2007 model year, the 2006 Toyota Tundra is a repeat award recipient as the most dependable large pickup, according to verified owners who participated in the J.D. Power and Associates 2009 Vehicle Dependability Study."

The Tundra received ratings among the best in overall dependability and body and interior dependability.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: marincounty

The highest ranked truck for dependability, the 2006 Toyota Tundra.

"In its final year before a complete redesign for the 2007 model year, the 2006 Toyota Tundra is a repeat award recipient as the most dependable large pickup, according to verified owners who participated in the J.D. Power and Associates 2009 Vehicle Dependability Study."

The Tundra received ratings among the best in overall dependability and body and interior dependability.

Except when the frames rust out.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: marincounty

The highest ranked truck for dependability, the 2006 Toyota Tundra.

"In its final year before a complete redesign for the 2007 model year, the 2006 Toyota Tundra is a repeat award recipient as the most dependable large pickup, according to verified owners who participated in the J.D. Power and Associates 2009 Vehicle Dependability Study."

The Tundra received ratings among the best in overall dependability and body and interior dependability.

Except when the frames rust out.

2nd place- 2006 Ford F-150
3rd place- 2006 GMC Sierra 1500

Sorry if the facts don't fit your ideology. In spite of rust problems, Toyota is still more dependable than Ford and GM.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Perhaps rednecks are being protectionist? Quality sure hasn't picked up in the last 5 years.

What a fucking crock of shit. The quality of American vehicles (except Chrysler) is on par if not better than the imports.

Keep spewing you lies. Remind me again what vehicle of the year had it's title revoked. Oh, it was a Toyota.

Being a GM owner AND a Toyota owner, I will not buy a Toyota again. I shouldn't have to take my 2 week old Sienna back to the dealership 3 times to fix O2 sensors, imporperly formed exhaust manifolds and the tire pressure sensor system. It would have been 4 times, but the seat belt height adjuster broke right before we took it in to fix the tire pressure sensor system so we got a 2 for 1 on that one. My GM truck bought a month before the Toyota has been in once, and that was because I needed new brakes after 70K miles. Oh, the Yota needed new brakes after 35K miles.

Toyota quality is a myth. 95-00 Tacomas are being bought back because of frame FAILURES because the frames were not properly rust protected because toyota wanted to save a few bucks. Frames are literally being destroyed by rust. Now the problem is showing up on early model Tundra's.
You can keep thinking American vehicles are crap but we all know your farts stink just as bad as the rest of us, even if you do like your own aroma.

And don;t forget in July 2007 Toyota took the title of 'Most no of cars recalled' away from Ford for the first time.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: smashp
My Honda Civic has more US components and a larger portion of it was assembled here in the US than every GM car available on the Market

you are full of such bullshit it isnt funny.

Don't forget where the overall profits go... back to corporate.

And don't forget about where R&D money is spent, and don't forget where tooling & die money is spent (these are huge amounts), and lastly read about 'transfer pricing'. Use google to find out.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Perhaps rednecks are being protectionist? Quality sure hasn't picked up in the last 5 years.

What a fucking crock of shit. The quality of American vehicles (except Chrysler) is on par if not better than the imports.

Keep spewing you lies. Remind me again what vehicle of the year had it's title revoked. Oh, it was a Toyota.

Being a GM owner AND a Toyota owner, I will not buy a Toyota again. I shouldn't have to take my 2 week old Sienna back to the dealership 3 times to fix O2 sensors, imporperly formed exhaust manifolds and the tire pressure sensor system. It would have been 4 times, but the seat belt height adjuster broke right before we took it in to fix the tire pressure sensor system so we got a 2 for 1 on that one. My GM truck bought a month before the Toyota has been in once, and that was because I needed new brakes after 70K miles. Oh, the Yota needed new brakes after 35K miles.

Toyota quality is a myth. 95-00 Tacomas are being bought back because of frame FAILURES because the frames were not properly rust protected because toyota wanted to save a few bucks. Frames are literally being destroyed by rust. Now the problem is showing up on early model Tundra's.
You can keep thinking American vehicles are crap but we all know your farts stink just as bad as the rest of us, even if you do like your own aroma.

And don;t forget in July 2007 Toyota took the title of 'Most no of cars recalled' away from Ford for the first time.

Toyotas were catching fire like Fords?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Stunt
Sales are not indicative of profitability or sustainability...

While that's true, at this point, Ford and GM need cash flow to survive while trying to implement their "right sizing" and restructuring plans. Without the cash flow (regardless if they are making profits) from sales, liquidations of other units or borrowing (from the private sector or government loans, there is absolutely ZERO chance of survival. Ford has the best chance of survival right now. (Really wish I could have pulled the trigger when Ford stock sank to $1.01 earlier this year. I looked at it (live) and told a co-worker that this would be a great buy. It rose to as high as $5.99 during the last week! )

Agreed...unfortunately you are attempting to correlate vehicle sales with cash flow; this is not the case. We have no idea from those numbers how much it cost to produce those vehicles or how much they sold for. Cash flow is defined as revenue minus costs. I agree the big 3 need to maximize cash flow...

I would never buy auto or airline stock. Low barriers to entry, too much competition, capital intensive, products constantly change.

actually autos have very high barriers to entry; having a name brand is incredibly important. Thats why have countries like korea heavily subsidize your auto companies for decades is necessary to get people to buy you car just do you can have a name. On top of it the capital costs are enormous, and need large volumes to see decent economies of scale.

By barriers to entry i mean it's pretty simple for any manufacturer develop a similar product or make a popular product. I mean look how fast market share has eroded over the last few years with massive incentives...hyundai, toyota, honda, nissan have all dominated the US car market as of late. Brand is less important these days

and most of those companies entered the market in the 60's it took a generation for this to happen

Hyundai didn't do their brand any favors in the early days. All the gains have been made very recently. Don't get me wrong I'm not down playing the effect of a strong brand but all it takes is a good product from any one of 10 companies for a product line to be completely slaughtered.

hyndai has been working their brand for at least a decade in the US, this isn't an overnight thing, and NOONE considers the auto industry an easy to enter market, which is why there hasn't been a new automaker in a generation. Hyundai was the last major player, and began selling cars in the US 1986 and was founded in 1967.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
hyndai has been working their brand for at least a decade in the US, this isn't an overnight thing, and NOONE considers the auto industry an easy to enter market, which is why there hasn't been a new automaker in a generation. Hyundai was the last major player, and began selling cars in the US 1986 and was founded in 1967.

The new entrants have not been from start ups but trade...
The market is saturated with brands and models; an indication of low barriers to entry.
Think of the number of cars available today and the full product lines of probably 20+ brands.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
hyndai has been working their brand for at least a decade in the US, this isn't an overnight thing, and NOONE considers the auto industry an easy to enter market, which is why there hasn't been a new automaker in a generation. Hyundai was the last major player, and began selling cars in the US 1986 and was founded in 1967.

The new entrants have not been from start ups but trade...
The market is saturated with brands and models; an indication of low barriers to entry.
Think of the number of cars available today and the full product lines of probably 20+ brands.

jesus christ your wrong, get over it, move on.

how many brands were there a decade ago? how long have these brands been around?


if the auto industry is so easy to get into, where are all the surging new automakers founded in the last 5-10 years?

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: marincounty

The highest ranked truck for dependability, the 2006 Toyota Tundra.

"In its final year before a complete redesign for the 2007 model year, the 2006 Toyota Tundra is a repeat award recipient as the most dependable large pickup, according to verified owners who participated in the J.D. Power and Associates 2009 Vehicle Dependability Study."

The Tundra received ratings among the best in overall dependability and body and interior dependability.

Except when the frames rust out.

2nd place- 2006 Ford F-150
3rd place- 2006 GMC Sierra 1500

Sorry if the facts don't fit your ideology. In spite of rust problems, Toyota is still more dependable than Ford and GM.

You've got to be kidding right?

I mean JD Power is fine for things that are directly effecting the owner, but I doubt most owners of 2006, 2007, and 2008 vehicles are crawling around under their vehicles and noticing the impending doom of said vehicle. Even Toyota has started buying back the trucks to get them off the road.

This would be like standing at ground zero and holding up a circa 2000 pamphlet that says the Twin Towers is the safest place to work.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
hyndai has been working their brand for at least a decade in the US, this isn't an overnight thing, and NOONE considers the auto industry an easy to enter market, which is why there hasn't been a new automaker in a generation. Hyundai was the last major player, and began selling cars in the US 1986 and was founded in 1967.

The new entrants have not been from start ups but trade...
The market is saturated with brands and models; an indication of low barriers to entry.
Think of the number of cars available today and the full product lines of probably 20+ brands.

jesus christ your wrong, get over it, move on.

how many brands were there a decade ago? how long have these brands been around?


if the auto industry is so easy to get into, where are all the surging new automakers founded in the last 5-10 years?

Porter's 5 Forces
"Threat of New Entrants. It's true that the average person can't come along and start manufacturing automobiles. Historically, it was thought that the American automobile industry and the Big Three were safe. But this did not hold true when Honda Motor Co. opened its first plant in Ohio. The emergence of foreign competitors with the capital, required technologies and management skills began to undermine the market share of North American companies. "

Threat of new entrants depends on...
Economies of scale
Capital investment requirements
Customer switching costs
Access to industry switching channels
Access to technology
Brand Loyalty
Likely retaliation from existing players
Government regulation

1+2) Plants of other manufacturers already exist in other countries (low cost for marginal increase in production)
3) Almost nothing
4) Dealerships are cheap especially with revenue generated by a sale
5) Parts are all made same players in north america and most countries in asia and europe have access to this technology
6) Negligible as discussed previously. Most people are giving up on their domestics with no real regret
7) Limited due to big three's cost structure, although they tried to do it
8) Not applicable IMO other than lax fuel economy standards, but then the japanese just started making suv's too without much harm to their operation