No it isn't..just look at the DMV example; isn't cars and medicine similar?
Instead of backing up a declarative with substantiated facts, we get some stupid information on a little DMV in BFE...go figure.
No it isn't..just look at the DMV example; isn't cars and medicine similar?
Instead of backing up a declarative with substantiated facts, we get some stupid information on a little DMV in BFE...go figure.
It's not a little DMV. I'm talking about NJ state DMV. The entire state.
You slip back into your old ways very easily galt.
If privatization is our salvation why don't some of its supporters post some success stories?
And why don't you answer my questions about privatizing security?
How about you back up your claims, then perhaps we can respond; just because you say it so, doesn't mean it is...show us the data substantiating your senseless claims. Until then, you have marginalized yourself once again with your half-baked 'facts'
So does privatizing the military save us money or not? I still haven't seen anyone answer that question except for BOBDN...
Corn
Diamond Member
- Nov 12, 1999
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BOBDN, you've provided a single example then linked to a union (and a government employee union at that) website and their "deadly" myths that provide no tangible data, and instead only offer quotes from other unionized partisans and other obscure sources.
You said: "Historically the savings from privatization have been a myth. The truth is govenment can do it for less than the private sector. And with government there is also a modicum of accountability."
You provided no data to support this contention. Again I ask, give me data of substance to support these ridiculous contentions of yours (most especially that last sentence, LOL).
You said: "Historically the savings from privatization have been a myth. The truth is govenment can do it for less than the private sector. And with government there is also a modicum of accountability."
You provided no data to support this contention. Again I ask, give me data of substance to support these ridiculous contentions of yours (most especially that last sentence, LOL).
Can you even answer the question? Does privatization of the military actually save taxpayers money? Why can't you answer the question?
The facts are the state I live in, New Jersey, has tried privatization and it failed miserably.
If you like you can go to the Star Ledger home page here and enter your search. Use their search. It only goes back 14 days. The Parsons fiasco was reported over a year or more ago. I didn't bother to retain all the newspapers from that long ago. They've been recycled. Go to your local library. Maybe they have microfilm of the articles.
Point is I, and 8 million other people in NJ, lived through it. I read the daily accounts of the mess the Whitman administraion made in their attempt to privatize the DMV. If you don't want to believe me don't. It's still true.
That's one experience with privatization. The less government people trying to save money by costing us all more for degraded service.
You request for data is just another tactic to avoid the facts. Privatization doesn't work. Look at the airport security personnel hired by private firms. Low pay, no benefits, no training. I feel very secure knowing some private company is seeing to it I'm safe. While their main concern is the bottom line.
Give me government security at airports. Something with teeth. Give me government workers at DMV. People who know what they're doing and can handle the job.
I gave you my experience with privatization. It was and is a disaster. Why not share your success stories with us.
Back to the subject of the thread, privatization doesn't seem to be truly private when we have members of the Bush administration morhping between CEO and VP. Just one more example of the corruption that goes on when government lets the private sector do their job.
As a matter of fact I just remembered another tid bit about the DMV fiasco here in NJ.
The former head of DMV under Whitman knew about the privatization plans and used the information he had to build a company that would fit the bill for DMV inspections. Nice to have that kind of insider info.
It just gets worse and worse.
Oh, and thanks for the personal attacks. Nice to see some things and people never change.
Maybe you should look into privatizing your attacks. You can blame someone else for them then like Whitman tried to blame Parsons for her mistake in privatizing DMV.
The former head of DMV under Whitman knew about the privatization plans and used the information he had to build a company that would fit the bill for DMV inspections. Nice to have that kind of insider info.
It just gets worse and worse.
Oh, and thanks for the personal attacks. Nice to see some things and people never change.
Maybe you should look into privatizing your attacks. You can blame someone else for them then like Whitman tried to blame Parsons for her mistake in privatizing DMV.
Those links are too funny; the last one is just one notch up from a "Bill's Geocities Site." You are right, boobdn, as always..thanks for the 'data' substantiating your claims...you proved everyone wrong again. Well-done, my honorable friend.
The links I provided are from sources in NJ government and the Star Ledger.
You can't refute the facts so you obfuscate.
You can't refute the facts so you obfuscate.
Link1 - Press Release, The Office of the Governor (State of NJ)
Link2 - By Joe Malinconico STAFF WRITER Newark NJ Star Ledger
Link3 - AFSCME Leader Publication
Link4 - Caucus New Jersey, Steve Adubato Staff Writer Newark NJ Star Ledger
Link5 - Press Release, The New Jersey Department of Transportation
Link6 - Jersey City Online
Link7 - Stella Sez Index Page (a page of news reports indexed by a concerned citizen)
I wonder why you only mentioned the last link? Can't argue with info from the Office of the Governor? The Newark Star Ledger? The NJ Dept of Transportation? The city of Jersey City?
You wanted proof. There it is. Refute it.
Link2 - By Joe Malinconico STAFF WRITER Newark NJ Star Ledger
Link3 - AFSCME Leader Publication
Link4 - Caucus New Jersey, Steve Adubato Staff Writer Newark NJ Star Ledger
Link5 - Press Release, The New Jersey Department of Transportation
Link6 - Jersey City Online
Link7 - Stella Sez Index Page (a page of news reports indexed by a concerned citizen)
I wonder why you only mentioned the last link? Can't argue with info from the Office of the Governor? The Newark Star Ledger? The NJ Dept of Transportation? The city of Jersey City?
You wanted proof. There it is. Refute it.
Corn
Diamond Member
- Nov 12, 1999
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Link.
As with any public or private venture there can never be a guarantee that any one company, performing any one function, will not fail the public's interest in cost savings. This is not the point. The problem is that the people who would/are making decisions on acceptable costs would still be making these same decisions regardless of who is actually performing these services. The general incompentance of the average decision maker is at fault here, not the method for how these services are performed. Thus my belief that the military's capability, or the federal government, to do it cheaper and with a greater degree of accountability, is a ridiculous contention is formed by that very basis.
Can privatization be cheaper? You bet, especially for menial labor tasks that can be contracted out to cheaper full or part time labor as opposed to full time fully benefited governmental employees, either military or unionized civilian. Same with employers who have a specific expertise in a necessary program, such as Lockheed Martin, Halliburton, etc.
Will privatization always be cheaper? Of course not, that was never my contention.
Corn
Diamond Member
- Nov 12, 1999
- 6,389
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BOBDN, you've provided a *single* example. This is not evidence of "Historically the savings from privatization have been a myth. The truth is govenment can do it for less than the private sector. And with government there is also a modicum of accountability."
I also provided a link that has links to several success stories where privatization of government has worked. "historically" you've provided but a single example of incompetant oversight by the government in assuring that the public didn't get screwed--oh yeah BABY! Check this out. Here in Michigan, nearly every gas station had equipment to check emissions of vehicles that spit out receipts that one would take to the DMV when they needed to renew their license--privatized inspection. No long lines (well, none till you got to the DMV, LOL) and it cost a mere $5 for this test. Sounds like to me that the morons who run the state of NJ (probably why my parent's mooved us out when I was but a wee lad--and I remember waiting in these inspection lines well over an hour back then 30 years ago) are to blame for the idiotic "inspection" process you have to endure.
Cry me a river.
I also provided a link that has links to several success stories where privatization of government has worked. "historically" you've provided but a single example of incompetant oversight by the government in assuring that the public didn't get screwed--oh yeah BABY! Check this out. Here in Michigan, nearly every gas station had equipment to check emissions of vehicles that spit out receipts that one would take to the DMV when they needed to renew their license--privatized inspection. No long lines (well, none till you got to the DMV, LOL) and it cost a mere $5 for this test. Sounds like to me that the morons who run the state of NJ (probably why my parent's mooved us out when I was but a wee lad--and I remember waiting in these inspection lines well over an hour back then 30 years ago) are to blame for the idiotic "inspection" process you have to endure.
Cry me a river.
Here's a second example for you.
If the Bush administration had their way with the privatization of Social Security, one of the main goals of his administration, the result would have been US workers would have not only lost their retirement savings they had in 401Ks they would have lost their SS retirement as well.
We have seen attempts to privatize education in NJ as well. Failed attempts.
Please don't make me search for documents. I spent way too much time searching for the proof of DMV corruption, incompetence, degraded services and increased costs.
IMO privatization is just another tactic in the conservative arsenal which will lead to the economic aggrandizement of the politically connected but which in reality will cost taxpayers more in the long run for degraded service.
Why did you feel it necessary to add "Cry me a river?" Do you enjoy witnessing your fellow Americans suffer through privatization?
If the Bush administration had their way with the privatization of Social Security, one of the main goals of his administration, the result would have been US workers would have not only lost their retirement savings they had in 401Ks they would have lost their SS retirement as well.
We have seen attempts to privatize education in NJ as well. Failed attempts.
Please don't make me search for documents. I spent way too much time searching for the proof of DMV corruption, incompetence, degraded services and increased costs.
IMO privatization is just another tactic in the conservative arsenal which will lead to the economic aggrandizement of the politically connected but which in reality will cost taxpayers more in the long run for degraded service.
Why did you feel it necessary to add "Cry me a river?" Do you enjoy witnessing your fellow Americans suffer through privatization?
Corn
Diamond Member
- Nov 12, 1999
- 6,389
- 29
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Will the lies never cease? Tell me BOBDN, what was the percentage of the individual's contribution that Bush's private SS plan would have allowed to be privately invested?
Here, how about I answer that. 2%
That's right kids, you heard it here first: BOBDN claims that a 2% deduction of the amount one pays into SS would have completely drained one's social security.
You'll have to excuse me for a moment by asking for clarification regarding the example that you provided regarding "US worker's" 401k plans having been completely drained. Sounds pretty broad, so please enlighten me, when, and how many, "US workers" lost everything in their 401k? Inquiring minds want to know.
Do I enjoy it? No, did I say LOL? No. Therefore I can only assume you continually want to play the ignorant and tired argument of Republicans don't care!!!! "Suffering"? You make it sound like waiting in line is some horrific experience causing the general population to fling their bodies into the sea. Fool. I'm curious, if things were so rosey before, why did your fellow voters allow this privatization in the first place? I'll tell you why.......The prior inspections system was fscked up before. Sounds like it's merely the status quo. Boo Hoo.
Same stupid crap, different day. On it goes, blame someone and you will feel good about yourself.
With the baby boom generation nearing retirement age the privatization of SS would drain contributions from the system at exactly the time when they are needed most. With the stock market volatility we've seen in the past two years there is a very real possibility the money won't be there to pay benefits to people who paid their share all their lives. With the looming budget deficit, estimates as high as $500 billion this year and deficits for as far as the eye can see, SS will be further strained.
The 401K accounts of millions of Americans have lost a significant percentage since the Bush recession began.
Don't minimize the risk to the retirement income of the generation about to retire. Along with all these factors they now face paltry interest rates on their savings.
Thanks for calling me a fool. You're staying true to form. I've agreed to stop the personal attacks but after today I'm beginning to wonder whether or not that was a good decision. Some people will never change. But I'm sure the first time I retaliate someone, usually one of the people who share your views, will say I'm at fault.
That pretty much sucks.
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