Cheney reported to have ordered CIA to conceal program from Congress

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Looks like Common Courtesy is the only one who has worked in the intelligence community before here, thus the only one who has an inkling of understanding about this.
Craig - THINK for a second. How can he possibly give examples of classified data being leaked without acknowledging that the aforementioned data is classified. There has been information leaked in the NY Times before - still not allowed to give an example. We are not allowed to confirm or deny that information is classified. Just know, that there are many leaks in an already very strict system - just because we can't provide them to the public doesn't mean they don't exist.
Also - do all these members of Congress have a NEED TO KNOW? The answer is absolutely NOT. What goes on in the NSA, CIA, NRO is made available on a need to know basis. Wanting to know is not good enough!
-Kevin

The law says the committees have a need to know, and mandates that the CIA (and other intelligence organizations) inform them fully on the type of program in question.

 

[kage69]

Wow, again Cheney proves himself to be a living, breathing litmus test on the veracity of those still in denial. The 'gang of 8' aspect of this gives the Cheney supporters a real kick in the nuts, as Craig has so kindly demonstrated. Remember the crusade against whistle-blowers we saw in what was it 2002? 2003?

Anyone who needs further proof that Cheney is an evil bastard hasn't really been paying attention.

Pretty much, but this story kinda "ups the ante." Everyone already kinda knows about the filtering this admin used post 9/11, especially in regards to Iraq.
Yep, great to see this kind of abuse of power combined in a man reputed to have his own company of assassins, who report directly to him and circumvent the Pentagon, CIA, and any form of Congressional oversight. Very American.

This is why he was blitzing the airwaves recently, the eventual ground swell of outrage over his continued malfeasance is beginning to crest, and he's been getting ready for it. I predict this will indeed meet with some kind of inquisition, where Cheney and Co. will role out a litany of presidential signing statements and various pre-emptive legal tweaks made during his office.

 

[DealMonkey]

I guess all you wingnut morons can apologize to Pelosi now. LMAO! :laugh:

 

[DealMonkey]

The CIA withheld information about a secret counterterrorism program from Congress during the Bush administration on direct orders from then-Vice President Dick Cheney, current CIA director Leon Panetta told members of Congress, a knowledgeable source confirmed to CNN.

...

A knowledgeable source familiar with the matter said the counterterrorism program in question was initiated shortly after the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington.

The program was on-again, off-again and was never fully operational, but was rather, a tool put on the shelf that could have been used, the source said. Panetta has put an end to the program, according to the source.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI...urveillance/index.html

While not specifically the 'waterboarding program,' it certainly bolsters the claim that the CIA misled Congress and probably did so on a routine basis during the Bush Admin. Oh I'm sure the CIA WANTED to brief Congress, however Cheney's direct order seems to have prevented it. At least we know who to blame.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Some people take the issue of security classifications more seriously than others.

While in the service, I routinely saw briefings given to Congress & staffers, have tidbits leaked before the day was out.

I can not say about briefings given to just the heads - above my pay grade at the time.
However, Congress and the WH at times want deniability of knowledge for some operations by covert agencies. therfore they chose to not ask questions.

Undisclosed sources, informed sources all mean the same.
Some one that is told that the information is classified and/or confidential, eyes only, etc wants to leak it even though they have a signed sheet stating they will not.

The public may have the right to know; however, when one signs a security agreement - to give up the information without authoriization is treason in my book.

During the VN and the Cold War; operations were jeapordized and lives lost becuase of Congress/staffer leaks.

Right now with the Dems in charge, the fault lies with them.
and I did see leaks from when the Republicans were in charge.

News reporters/dirt diggers know that there are people that will spill the beans to feel important.

Far more important than any one agent or soldier's life is our entire way of life.

Congress, not the CIA or the President, is the first cornerstone of our democracy.

 

[chucky2]

Thumbs up to Cheney if true! :thumbsup:

Chuck

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Looks like Common Courtesy is the only one who has worked in the intelligence community before here, thus the only one who has an inkling of understanding about this.
Craig - THINK for a second. How can he possibly give examples of classified data being leaked without acknowledging that the aforementioned data is classified. There has been information leaked in the NY Times before - still not allowed to give an example. We are not allowed to confirm or deny that information is classified. Just know, that there are many leaks in an already very strict system - just because we can't provide them to the public doesn't mean they don't exist.
Also - do all these members of Congress have a NEED TO KNOW? The answer is absolutely NOT. What goes on in the NSA, CIA, NRO is made available on a need to know basis. Wanting to know is not good enough!
-Kevin

The law says the committees have a need to know, and mandates that the CIA (and other intelligence organizations) inform them fully on the type of program in question.

No the law doesn't. The Congressional Intelligence Committee (Or whatever the name is) - the 2 respective leaders of that Committee have a need to know for the checks and balances. THEY are the ONLY ones with a need to know.

Don't kid yourself guys - this, I would venture to guess, happens a lot under any administration. This is merely Pelosi saying "Hey, take the heat off of me for the LIE (And yes it was a LIE) I told earlier and make a big deal out of something that isn't a big deal"

-Kevin

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Looks like Common Courtesy is the only one who has worked in the intelligence community before here, thus the only one who has an inkling of understanding about this.

Craig - THINK for a second. How can he possibly give examples of classified data being leaked without acknowledging that the aforementioned data is classified. There has been information leaked in the NY Times before - still not allowed to give an example. We are not allowed to confirm or deny that information is classified. Just know, that there are many leaks in an already very strict system - just because we can't provide them to the public doesn't mean they don't exist.

Also - do all these members of Congress have a NEED TO KNOW? The answer is absolutely NOT. What goes on in the NSA, CIA, NRO is made available on a need to know basis. Wanting to know is not good enough!

-Kevin

Absolutely not. Congress not only has a need to know, from a Constitutional standpoint they have the most important need to know. They are granted the power of oversight, to supervise and regulate the actions of the executive. If the executive is hiding its actions from them, they cannot perform their Constitutionally required tasks.

It doesn't matter what the NSA or CIA think is necessary, they don't get to make that choice.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

I must give credit to a small number of conservatives (like George Will) who bucked the Republican establishment during the Bush years and opposed the expansion of the executive branch vis-a-vis the legislative branch. This should be a non-partisan issue (but it's not, of course).

 

[OrByte]

Hmmm..so lets just tell congress what they need to hear and then ask them to send us to war...?

nah.....that will never happen.

 

[Moonbeam]

I heard this reported on NPR this morning and they used the words lied to congress.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Looks like Common Courtesy is the only one who has worked in the intelligence community before here, thus the only one who has an inkling of understanding about this.

Craig - THINK for a second. How can he possibly give examples of classified data being leaked without acknowledging that the aforementioned data is classified. There has been information leaked in the NY Times before - still not allowed to give an example. We are not allowed to confirm or deny that information is classified. Just know, that there are many leaks in an already very strict system - just because we can't provide them to the public doesn't mean they don't exist.

Also - do all these members of Congress have a NEED TO KNOW? The answer is absolutely NOT. What goes on in the NSA, CIA, NRO is made available on a need to know basis. Wanting to know is not good enough!

-Kevin

Absolutely not. Congress not only has a need to know, from a Constitutional standpoint they have the most important need to know. They are granted the power of oversight, to supervise and regulate the actions of the executive. If the executive is hiding its actions from them, they cannot perform their Constitutionally required tasks.

It doesn't matter what the NSA or CIA think is necessary, they don't get to make that choice.

Once again wrong. Every single member of Congress most certainly does NOT have a need to know. There is 1 single committee that has claim to that statement - that committee then has the responsibility to inform the others what they NEED to hear.

Unfortunately, outside of that committee, most of the congress men/woman don't have enough common sense to THINK where they talk about such classified information if they are told about anything. So what they do hear, generally is what I would imagine gets leaked.

-Kevin

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Looks like Common Courtesy is the only one who has worked in the intelligence community before here, thus the only one who has an inkling of understanding about this.

Craig - THINK for a second. How can he possibly give examples of classified data being leaked without acknowledging that the aforementioned data is classified. There has been information leaked in the NY Times before - still not allowed to give an example. We are not allowed to confirm or deny that information is classified. Just know, that there are many leaks in an already very strict system - just because we can't provide them to the public doesn't mean they don't exist.

Also - do all these members of Congress have a NEED TO KNOW? The answer is absolutely NOT. What goes on in the NSA, CIA, NRO is made available on a need to know basis. Wanting to know is not good enough!

-Kevin

Absolutely not. Congress not only has a need to know, from a Constitutional standpoint they have the most important need to know. They are granted the power of oversight, to supervise and regulate the actions of the executive. If the executive is hiding its actions from them, they cannot perform their Constitutionally required tasks.

It doesn't matter what the NSA or CIA think is necessary, they don't get to make that choice.

Once again wrong. Every single member of Congress most certainly does NOT have a need to know. There is 1 single committee that has claim to that statement - that committee then has the responsibility to inform the others what they NEED to hear.

Unfortunately, outside of that committee, most of the congress men/woman don't have enough common sense to THINK where they talk about such classified information if they are told about anything. So what they do hear, generally is what I would imagine gets leaked.

-Kevin

By all these members I thought you were referring to committee members, specifically because in many cases even they aren't allowed to know. I agree that all 535 members of Congress need to know everything, but what Cheney did is lie to Congress as a whole, not just refuse to divulge some information. Absolute indefensible.

I spent 7 years dealing with top secret information, so I most certainly have an 'inkling of understanding' about the issue.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Looks like Common Courtesy is the only one who has worked in the intelligence community before here, thus the only one who has an inkling of understanding about this.

Craig - THINK for a second. How can he possibly give examples of classified data being leaked without acknowledging that the aforementioned data is classified. There has been information leaked in the NY Times before - still not allowed to give an example. We are not allowed to confirm or deny that information is classified. Just know, that there are many leaks in an already very strict system - just because we can't provide them to the public doesn't mean they don't exist.

Also - do all these members of Congress have a NEED TO KNOW? The answer is absolutely NOT. What goes on in the NSA, CIA, NRO is made available on a need to know basis. Wanting to know is not good enough!

-Kevin

Absolutely not. Congress not only has a need to know, from a Constitutional standpoint they have the most important need to know. They are granted the power of oversight, to supervise and regulate the actions of the executive. If the executive is hiding its actions from them, they cannot perform their Constitutionally required tasks.

It doesn't matter what the NSA or CIA think is necessary, they don't get to make that choice.

Once again wrong. Every single member of Congress most certainly does NOT have a need to know. There is 1 single committee that has claim to that statement - that committee then has the responsibility to inform the others what they NEED to hear.

Unfortunately, outside of that committee, most of the congress men/woman don't have enough common sense to THINK where they talk about such classified information if they are told about anything. So what they do hear, generally is what I would imagine gets leaked.

-Kevin

By all these members I thought you were referring to committee members, specifically because in many cases even they aren't allowed to know. I agree that all 535 members of Congress need to know everything, but what Cheney did is lie to Congress as a whole, not just refuse to divulge some information. Absolute indefensible.

I spent 7 years dealing with top secret information, so I most certainly have an 'inkling of understanding' about the issue.

I'm not 100% sure what you tried to say in that last post. I feel like you might have mistyped something...

 

[Lemon law]

I can't buy this argument that if the CIA does not tell congress, then their secrets are safe. Remember Alridges Aimes anyone, any one in the spook world has a danger of playing the single agent, double agent, triple agent ........games, and pretty soon they lose sight of what more important, their fantasies or the good of their own country?

Nor are these revelations about the CIA and Cheney any surprise to anyone able to connect the dots, many of have learned with a certainty that what the CIA was telling us could not possibly be true, if nothing else, they had so many different versions of the same story, even the dimmest wit could connect those dots. And ditto for the various cover stories saying Saddam had WMD, the various cover stories about Uranium from Niger and the Aluminum tubes used for Nuclear refinement, all debunked long before, and we we lied into an optional war those idiots and liars could not even remotely conduct competently.

Many of knew long ago, that Cheney was the ringleader of a bunch of liars and traitors to this country, and subverted the CIA and other government agencies, and what we did not know was exactly how, step by step, people, times, and places, exactly how they did it and where the bodies are buried. And who did exactly what. We still do not know much about that latter set of questions, but being the relevant questions to ask, we are only now starting that final process of piecing together their specific and numerable crimes. When and if Cheney goes to jail, he will not go alone.

 

[Gamingphreek]

I can't buy this argument that if the CIA does not tell congress, then their secrets are safe.

Well I don't mean to imply that by any means. Certainly there are many other leaks in information; however, Congress members seem to take no care with the information they are told.

As for the rest of your post - jeez you are still whining and complaining that Bush was this heinous criminal? Not once do I recall ever saying that any President I didn't agree with was like that....some are more mature than others I guess.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: eskimospy

By all these members I thought you were referring to committee members, specifically because in many cases even they aren't allowed to know. I agree that all 535 members of Congress need to know everything, but what Cheney did is lie to Congress as a whole, not just refuse to divulge some information. Absolute indefensible.

I spent 7 years dealing with top secret information, so I most certainly have an 'inkling of understanding' about the issue.

I'm not 100% sure what you tried to say in that last post. I feel like you might have mistyped something...

No, not at all. Maybe you can explain your confusion?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

I can't buy this argument that if the CIA does not tell congress, then their secrets are safe.

Well I don't mean to imply that by any means. Certainly there are many other leaks in information; however, Congress members seem to take no care with the information they are told.

As for the rest of your post - jeez you are still whining and complaining that Bush was this heinous criminal? Not once do I recall ever saying that any President I didn't agree with was like that....some are more mature than others I guess.

Oh, and disagreeing with a President isn't what makes his actions criminal. I think there is a very valid case that several of the programs Bush authorized could rise to the level of violating criminal statute under US law. Nothing to do with maturity whatsoever.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Ok first off, as a little light hearted humor, it has taken me about 6 tries to type this post. I keep accidentally hitting 'reply' and it clears everything.

By all these members I thought you were referring to committee members, specifically because in many cases even they aren't allowed to know.

Well, I thought you were arguing that Congress as a whole has a need to know whereas I was arguing that only the Intelligence Committee has a claim to that statement.

I agree that all 535 members of Congress need to know everything

This is where I thought you made the mistake because above you said they aren't allowed to know. Once again, perhaps I am misunderstanding your argument. Did you mean to say "don't" need to know everything?

-Kevin

 

[colonel]

Cheney is an evil and traitor should be in jail long time ago.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ok first off, as a little light hearted humor, it has taken me about 6 tries to type this post. I keep accidentally hitting 'reply' and it clears everything.

By all these members I thought you were referring to committee members, specifically because in many cases even they aren't allowed to know.

Well, I thought you were arguing that Congress as a whole has a need to know whereas I was arguing that only the Intelligence Committee has a claim to that statement.

I agree that all 535 members of Congress need to know everything

This is where I thought you made the mistake because above you said they aren't allowed to know. Once again, perhaps I am misunderstanding your argument. Did you mean to say "don't" need to know everything?

-Kevin

Oh, apparently I suck as badly at proofreading the second time as the first. I meant that all 535 members don't need to know everything.

 

[sapiens74]

If any member of congress divulges top secret information to the press they should be charged with a felony and imprisoned

All government programs should be run through the 3 branches of government to make sure it is lawful. Period.

 

[Xellos2099]

Funny this pop up when Obama and overall congress approval rating is down.

 

[sapiens74]

Originally posted by: colonel
Cheney is an evil and traitor should be in jail long time ago.

My religious beliefs tell me Cheney has more to worry about than just imprisonment

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Funny this pop up when Obama and overall congress approval rating is down.

You can be sure that there's nothing funny, on coincidental, about it all. This whole time, and this is brought back up when Obama happens to be in Ghana, and his public supporting is being reduced by the economic situation?

On the stage of politics, not likely an accident...

Chuck