Cheney claims ties between Saddam, al Qaeda

[Vadatajs]

Update, Cheney a LIAR

 

[Czar]

yeah an official lie now

but realy I think Cheney is just stretching this, one explination is that he sees terrorism as one thing so in his mind he can say that Saddam had connections to terrorism = Israel/Palestine conflict and then because Al Qaeda are terrorists then it somehow equals to Saddam supporting Al Qaeda.... but thats reeeeeealy stretching it

 

[EagleKeeper]

Degrees of seperation

no credible evidence

It is credible if one wants to believe in smoke and mirrors

 

[Moonbeam]

Cheney is a Bene Gesserit witch who thinks he has 'the voice' and can lie and be believed with impunity. But it only works on weak minds of which there are plenty.

 

[onelove]

cut and pasted from the story:

9/11 Panel Finds No Collaboration Between Iraq, Al Qaeda
Findings Contradict Comments by Cheney, Bush
By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, June 16, 2004; 9:00 AM
...
Although Osama bin Laden briefly explored the idea of forging ties with Iraq in the mid-1990s, the terrorist leader was hostile to Hussein's secular government, and Iraq never responded to requests for help in providing training camps or weapons, the panel's report says.
...Sudan ... "arranged for contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda." But the contacts did not result in any cooperation, the panel said.
"There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda also occurred after bin Laden had returned to Afghanistan [in 1996], but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship," the report says. "Two senior bin Laden associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq. We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States."

in fairness to cheney, these contacts might be called "ties" ("long established" seems a stretch since they seem to have been intermittent over a period of time). This report would seem likely to prompt the administration to change cheney's rhetoric on this.

 

[Vadatajs]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Cheney is a Bene Gesserit witch who thinks he has 'the voice' and can lie and be believed with impunity. But it only works on weak minds of which there are plenty.

I think you're wrong Moonie. I think Cheney thinks he's Goebbels.

in fairness to cheney, these contacts might be called "ties" ("long established" seems a stretch since they seem to have been intermittent over a period of time). This report would seem likely to prompt the administration to change cheney's rhetoric on this.

We'll see, but I highly doubt this finding will result in a change of rhetoric.

 

[arsbanned]

Lack of proof doesnt equate to a "blatant lie"

The 9/11 Commission says there is NO EVIDENCE to support Cheney's assertion. They are presumably privy to info the media are not, correct? Or is that STILL not enough to convince you of the facts? Cheney lied and continues to lie lie lie.

 

[GrGr]

Bush agrees

"At a news conference with Afghan president Hamid Karzai, Bush stood by his vice president, saying Hussein ''had ties to terrorist organizations," though he did not specifically mention Al Qaeda.

''I look forward to the debates where people are saying, 'Oh gosh, the world would be better off if Saddam Hussein were still in power,' " Bush said. [Weeee, The President argues on the same level as Edge3D and other P&N Bushie bleaters 😀]

Bush has previously said there was ''no evidence" linking Hussein to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, but he and other members of his administration have continued to say they believe there were ties between Hussein and Al Qaeda. In a speech to the conservative Madison Institute in Orlando on Monday, Cheney called Hussein ''a patron of terrorism" and said ''he had long established ties with Al Qaeda."

 

[cumhail]

Originally posted by: GrGr
Bush agrees

"At a news conference with Afghan president Hamid Karzai, Bush stood by his vice president, saying Hussein ''had ties to terrorist organizations," though he did not specifically mention Al Qaeda.

''I look forward to the debates where people are saying, 'Oh gosh, the world would be better off if Saddam Hussein were still in power,' " Bush said. [Weeee, The President argues on the same level as Edge3D and other P&N Bushie bleaters 😀]

Bush has previously said there was ''no evidence" linking Hussein to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, but he and other members of his administration have continued to say they believe there were ties between Hussein and Al Qaeda. In a speech to the conservative Madison Institute in Orlando on Monday, Cheney called Hussein ''a patron of terrorism" and said ''he had long established ties with Al Qaeda."

They know what they're doing... a large group, perhaps even a majority, of american citizens and voters won't go back and check previous statements or research the veracity of statements. They will go on believing, as so many want to believe, that their leaders will always do what is right. They'll believe it as unflinchingly as they believed that great phrase that came out of the Nixon era, "If the president does it, it's legal."

If told that there's a connection, they'll believe there is. If told that they'd only previously said "a connection to terrorist" and not specifically Al Qaeda, they'll believe that, too... not because it rings true, based on some set of facts they know and are testing it against, but because they want to live in a world where the president and his administration are defenders of "truth, justice, and the American way."

They'll choose to believe that they had previously misheard, misremembered, or misunderstood things as willingly as the animals did in George Orwell's Animal Farm. Why? Because it's easier to live in a world where we believe our leaders are honest and trustworthy than in one where we have to question their integrity.

Bush and Cheney aren't stupid... they're saying what these types of people need to hear for the fantasy to continue. And those that buy into it aren't fooled because they're stupid, either... they just need something to believe in. And in the absence of true leaders and visionaries, they'll take the leaders they have and let perspective help them fit back into the vision.

cumhail

 

[Vadatajs]

An April poll by the University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes found that 57 percent of Americans surveyed believed that Iraq was helping Al Qaeda before the war, including 20 percent who believed Iraq was linked to the Sept. 11 attacks.

A majority of Americans think its true, so the administration is just running with the poll data. It's not very dangerous to lie when the public stupidly believes it.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Caminetto
Right, and if you will recall, the administration couldn't give us the details about all those weapons of mass destruction due to security issues.

Considering its intelligence was based upon the debunked claims from Chalabi and the INC, it's a house of cards. And Cheney doesn't have any Aces up his sleeves, only Jokers.

 

[onelove]

Originally posted by: cumhail

Originally posted by: GrGr
Bush agrees

"At a news conference with Afghan president Hamid Karzai, Bush stood by his vice president, saying Hussein ''had ties to terrorist organizations," though he did not specifically mention Al Qaeda.

''I look forward to the debates where people are saying, 'Oh gosh, the world would be better off if Saddam Hussein were still in power,' " Bush said. [Weeee, The President argues on the same level as Edge3D and other P&N Bushie bleaters 😀]

Bush has previously said there was ''no evidence" linking Hussein to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, but he and other members of his administration have continued to say they believe there were ties between Hussein and Al Qaeda. In a speech to the conservative Madison Institute in Orlando on Monday, Cheney called Hussein ''a patron of terrorism" and said ''he had long established ties with Al Qaeda."

They know what they're doing... a large group, perhaps even a majority, of american citizens and voters won't go back and check previous statements or research the veracity of statements. They will go on believing, as so many want to believe, that their leaders will always do what is right. They'll believe it as unflinchingly as they believed that great phrase that came out of the Nixon era, "If the president does it, it's legal."

If told that there's a connection, they'll believe there is. If told that they'd only previously said "a connection to terrorist" and not specifically Al Qaeda, they'll believe that, too... not because it rings true, based on some set of facts they know and are testing it against, but because they want to live in a world where the president and his administration are defenders of "truth, justice, and the American way."

They'll choose to believe that they had previously misheard, misremembered, or misunderstood things as willingly as the animals did in George Orwell's Animal Farm. Why? Because it's easier to live in a world where we believe our leaders are honest and trustworthy than in one where we have to question their integrity.

Bush and Cheney aren't stupid... they're saying what these types of people need to hear for the fantasy to continue. And those that buy into it aren't fooled because they're stupid, either... they just need something to believe in. And in the absence of true leaders and visionaries, they'll take the leaders they have and let perspective help them fit back into the vision.

cumhail

awake, gentle citizen. read. think.

 

[conjur]

Sept. 11 Panel Asks Cheney for Evidence

WASHINGTON ? Nearing the end of its work, the Sept. 11 commission is inviting Vice President Dick Cheney (search) to provide any evidence he has that would show links between Al Qaeda and Iraq under Saddam Hussein, a panel member said Saturday.

He said the panel also wants to follow up its questioning of President Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice (search), and CIA Director George Tenet.

The Cheney request culminates a week in which the commission said it found no evidence of collaboration between Saddam's Iraq and Al Qaeda (search), while the White House stuck by its position that the two had significant links.

Cheney said in a televised interview that there probably were things about Iraq's links to terrorists that the commission members did not learn during their 14-month investigation.

After hearing the vice president's comment, commission members said they would like to see any intelligence reports that Cheney is referring to.

"We would certainly welcome any information bearing on the issue of assistance or collaboration with Al Qaeda by any government including Iraq," said commission member Richard Ben-Veniste (search). Commission chairman Thomas Kean and vice chairman Lee Hamilton made similar comments to The New York Times.

The Bush administration used the assertion of collaboration between Al Qaeda and Saddam's regime as one of its reasons for invading Iraq.

Commission spokesman Al Felzenberg said the commission is not making another formal request for documents from the White House.

"We have made an extensive document request of the administration, and they have responded to our requests," said Felzenberg. The panel is saying, he added: "If the vice president or anybody else has any information on this subject that they would like the commission to examine, the commission would very much like to see it."

Regarding additional questioning of witnesses, Ben-Veniste said, "We are following up on interviews and other investigative leads at the same time we begin finalizing the factual accounts which will be contained in the final report."

"Following up with Dr. Rice and George Tenet are two obvious areas of interest."

The Los Angeles Times first reported the panel's desire for further questioning of Bush's national security adviser and the CIA director. The Times said Tenet, who leaves office in July, had agreed to be re-interviewed, and the commission might submit written questions to Rice.

Without addressing whether the commission wants to question Rice and Tenet again, Felzenberg said, "It is not unusual to go back to someone with more questions."

The commission has a July 26 deadline for completing its final report.

Looks like it's time for Cheney to put up or shut up.

 

[conjur]

WASHINGTON ? For the past few days, the dialogue in this town has sounded more like "Sex and the City" than "The McLaughlin Group." Suddenly the question of what constitutes a relationship has come to the fore. We're not talking J. Lo here, we're talking about the Bush administration and whether its definition of "relationship" fits with everyone else's.

Last week, the 9/11 Commission released a report saying, among other things, that there was no "collaborative relationship" between Al Qaeda and Iraq. The press jumped on the story, saying the Bush administration has been proven wrong. The White House, however, quickly countered that it had never said that Iraq was involved in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks; it had simply argued that there was a connection.

"There was a relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda," President Bush said. "The evidence is overwhelming" that there was a relationship, Vice President Cheney said.

What kind of relationship? Well, that's not clear. The commission reported that, beyond the Sept. 11 attacks, there were indeed contacts between Al Qaeda and Iraq but that Iraq rebuffed Al Qaeda's entreaties. Late last week, however, the vice president hinted that might not be the whole story.

When asked if he knew things the panel didn't, Mr. Cheney said, "probably," leaving some to wonder whether the administration has shared all it knew with the panel. Just as quickly, however, a spokesman also said the administration "cooperated fully with the commission," and "the president wants the commission to have the information it needs to do its job."

It may still turn out that there is some bit of bombshell evidence showing a "collaborative relationship" between Al Qaeda and Iraq. It's not really clear though, why the White House would keep such information secret. This administration, like many others, has not been shy about leaking sensitive information that helps its cause.

All of which means, what we probably have here is an issue of semantics. What exactly qualifies as a relationship in the early 21st century? Is it chatter that doesn't lead to anything, or something more? Where are Carrie Bradshaw and her friends when you need them?

These questions may be wonderful for conversation around the campfire. They may even enable you to say you dated the homecoming queen, but they aren't exactly on point. The point, as it so often is in politics, isn't what those in the administration actually said with all their link talk; it's what they implied.

Since it began talking about invading Iraq, this administration pushed two main lines of argument as justification. First, Iraq needed regime change because the government there was amassing or had amassed weapons of mass destruction. Second, Iraq was likely to use those weapons against the US or sell them to someone who would because it was part of the Al Qaeda-led jihad against the United States.

With the first argument largely discredited, the White House is holding on tenaciously to the second - tenaciously, but carefully. For the past year members of this administration have been dancing along the line of connecting, but not completely connecting, Al Qaeda and Iraq.

There are numerous examples, but one of the best is Cheney's comment on "Meet the Press" last September. "If we're successful in Iraq," he said, "we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11."

Parse that carefully and you'll see he is 100 percent correct. If the US brings a stable democracy to Iraq, it will strike a blow at "the heart" of "the geographic base" of Islamic terrorism: the Middle East. But the wording, if you will, leads the reader or listener to more dramatic conclusions, particularly when the "9/11" is added in there. They are led toward the idea that Iraq and Al Qaeda are working together.

Of course, members of the administration are generally pretty careful not to cross that line. They're careful not to say it explicitly; they just let the public infer it.

That's not exactly unprecedented. Semantics and careful lawyerly phrasing are all too common here. But straightforward talking is supposed to be this administration's strong point. And for all the talk of restoring honor and integrity to the White House, here we are again arguing over how to define "relationship."

Iraq, Al Qaeda, and what constitutes a 'relationship'
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0622/p09s01-codc.html

 

[onelove]

Interesting article & funny to see CSM referencing Sex and the City.

Particularly interesting is the quote from Cheney and dissection of same in last 4 paragraphs.

 

[Painman]

A fun little tidbit posted on Altercation today:

Transcript, CNBC?s ?Capital Report,? June 17, 2004

Gloria Borger: ?Well, let?s get to Mohammed Atta for a minute, because you mentioned him as well. You have said in the past that it was quote, ?pretty well confirmed.?

Vice President Cheney: No, I never said that.

BORGER: OK.

Vice Pres. CHENEY: Never said that.

BORGER: I think that is...

Vice Pres. CHENEY: Absolutely not.

Transcript, NBC?s ?Meet the Press,? December 9, 2001.

Vice-President Cheney: ?It?s been pretty well confirmed that he did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in Czechoslovakia last April.?

 

[Gaard]

Looks like it's time for Cheney to put up or shut up.

Why do I have this feeling that he'll do neither?

 

[conjur]

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash.htm

AL GORE TO ACCUSE BUSH ADMINISTRATION OF INTENTIONAL DISTORTION ON IRAQ/AL QAEDA TIES IN DC SPEECH THURSDAY
Tue Jun 22 2004 17:28:24 ET

Washington, DC-- In a major Washington policy address this Thursday, former Vice President Al Gore will accuse the Bush Administration of intentionally misleading the American people by continuing to falsely claim a connection between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda.

He will charge that Bush and Cheney have "institutionalized dishonesty as an essential element of their policy process."

Gore will also urge the broadcast media to further resist Administration efforts to manipulate and intimidate them, to fearlessly report the fact that there is no Al Qaeda/Saddam collaborative relationship, as the 9/11 Commission staff report has concluded.

Gore will also discuss the implications of the Administration's claim to be above the law in ordering the torture of suspects - and their claim that the Commander in Chief's power trumps all other laws. He will call for the Administration to reveal all orders given the military on the treatment of prisoners.

Developing...