Chef Knives

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
So, I am fed up with having to buy a new knife every year and was wondering if any of you have any experience with some higher grade cutlery? I've asked around my workplace and the like only guy that can cook suggested Shun as a good brand.

Any other suggestions? I don't mind paying $100+ per knife, so long as it is quality. I'd prefer to stay away from sets, as they come with lots of junk I don't need. I'll probably only start with a chef's knife / santoku and a paring knife and build from there. I am still on the fence on which shape I prefer as a main knife.

Thanks
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
14,078
2,562
126
a knife is (mostly) a chunk of steel. the shape of the edge, and the shape of the blade, affect how the knife behaves, but essentially all you get is a chunk of metal. you will have to come to terms with this and accept that knives need to be sharpened.

having said that, i tried iron knives, chroma knives, carbon steel, stainless steel, and ceramic, and most of the time i just prefer a cheap stainless steel knife.

stainless is soft, and as all soft metals, it is easy to make it really sharp, and it also dulls very quickly. just keep a diamond steel handy, and you are good to go. once a week, sharpen it on a stone or grinder.

carbon steel is hard .. it stays hard for longer, but it's a pain in the ass to sharpen. it can rust.
if you work in a kitchen, then professional carbon steel knives are a good investment, when you do not want to break your concentration to sharpen a knife every second. but they are expensive and you need to dedicate time to use the sharpening stone (also expensive).
most unusual shapes (e.g. sushi knives) are carbon steel. a diamond steel does barely anything to these knives, you need stones.

iron (well, not really iron, but a milder form of steel; all steel is *carbon* steel, that's how it becomes steel and not iron) knives, such as chinese cleavers, are imho really good to work with; they take less time and less effort to sharpen, and stay sharper longer than stainless.
they rust immediately and need daily sharpening, but it's not that bad of a chore.
you are not likely to find any iron knife in any shape other than cleaver and butcher's knife.
stones and diamond.

ceramic is a bad substitute for steel; the knife's blade is way thicker than it should be, they are incredibly fragile, nowhere near as sharp as any of the above, and they do not stay sharp forever, as they say they do. the only thing they have going for them is that they do not affect the taste of the food, so if you work in a super-high class restaurant that deals with that kind of super-delicate food, then yeah, get a set of these.

modern-metal knives (such as chroma, the porsche-built knives; or vanadium-molybdenum alloys, etc..) are great, but they have some practical donwsides which are not immediately apparent.
besides the fact that they are deadly expensive, they all sharpen differently. you could literally eat away your entire knife in 3-4 sharpening sessions if you do it wrong. sometimes they are extremely soft, like the chroma.
(i have cut myself just by gently touching the blade of a chroma while testing it. i have cut myself so many times on those knives, it's ridiculous. and while they are *the* sharpest object in the world, they bend and chip and break so easily you are gonna go WTF I SPENT MY MONEY ON THIS?!?)
you will probably need a special sharpener for each alloy.



so .. tell us what you need, and we can make a recommendation.

as for brands, they are all overpriced.
linky the link because science! http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/InformationAboutSteels.html
more linky link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_blade_materials
 
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Mike64

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2011
2,108
101
91
Why don't you sharpen them? Even the pricey knives need to sharpened, probably not as often but they will still get dull.
This^

My brother and SIL were given a very nice set (Henckel's, iirc?) as a wedding present 38 years ago. They're still in good shape, physically, but they have literally never sharpened them (and would, SIL especially, take it as an "insult to their lifestyle"* if I even offered to do so.) And as nice as they could be even all these years later (after a good grinding and sharpening, that is), using them absolutely sucks and has sucked for the past 37.5 years.:eek:) So if you haven't been sharpening yours, you need to start, or you'll just be wasting whatever money you spend on your new ones (if you in fact decide to buy new ones at all after sharpening the ones you have now.:biggrin:)

If you have no interest in sharpening them by hand, you might consider one of Chef's Choice electric models. Purists complain, righlty enough, that they don't put as a fine an edge on them as can be done by hand, but proper knife sharpening is almost an art. It's much easier to butcher a knife than to put a good clean edge on one, so for the rest of us plebes, the electric ones do a good-to-very-good basic job of it - much better than any sort of "gadget"-type sharpener - with minimal effort. [ETA: And far better than butchering one with a whetstone if you don't know what you're doing...]

But in addition to that, what brand(s) of knives have you been buying that you only get a year's use out of them? As a non-snob owner of quite a few kitchen knives ranging from total crap to "high end" brand-names, I'd suggest taking a look at Chicago Cutlery's lineup (here's their page on Amazon, just for example.) They make both stamped and forged knives, and they're pretty good for the price, certainly fine for a home cook who uses them for everyday cooking rather than cooking-as-a-hobby and just wants to cut stuff without giveing much if any thought to perfecting their "knife technique", etc, etc...

_____________________________________________

* Don't, I repeat, do not, even ask...:rolleyes:
 
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calahan

Member
Sep 4, 2015
126
0
0
have good one vanadium-molybdenum alloy knife from Ikea, use its for 4 months still sharp.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,104
597
126
If you have no interest in sharpening them by hand, you might consider one of Chef's Choice electric models. Purists complain, righlty enough, that they don't put as a fine an edge on them as can be done by hand, but proper knife sharpening is almost an art. It's much easier to butcher a knife than to put a good clean edge on one, so for the rest of us plebes, the electric ones do a good-to-very-good basic job of it - much better than any sort of "gadget"-type sharpener - with minimal effort. [ETA: And far better than butchering one with a whetstone if you don't know what you're doing...]

But in addition to that, what brand(s) of knives have you been buying that you only get a year's use out of them? As a non-snob owner of quite a few kitchen knives ranging from total crap to "high end" brand-names, I'd suggest taking a look at Chicago Cutlery's lineup (here's their page on Amazon, just for example.) They make both stamped and forged knives, and they're pretty good for the price, certainly fine for a home cook who uses them for everyday cooking rather than cooking-as-a-hobby and just wants to cut stuff without giveing much if any thought to perfecting their "knife technique", etc, etc...
Electric sharpeners are terrible and will ruin your knives. Seriously. Get a good manual sharpener and spend 10 minutes a month or so and sharpen your knives properly. Nothing ruin a good knife faster than a crap sharpener.
 
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calahan

Member
Sep 4, 2015
126
0
0
Electric sharpeners are terrible and will ruin your knives. Seriously. Get a good manual sharpener and spend 10 minutes a month or so and sharpen your knives properly. Nothing ruin a good knife faster than a crap sharpener.
agree with you, I always use simple stone sharpener with perfect results!
 

microAmp

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2000
5,988
110
106
I have a Shun, paid almost $150 3 years ago, now $99.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000Y7KNQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

I always hone it before using it.

Edit:

So I was looking up some info on my knife on Amazon, how much of an angle I need to resharpen it on the Q&A part, saw one very awesome reply. Checked out out on Shun's website.

"Your Shun or Kai knife comes with free lifetime sharpening. Just send the knife to our Tualatin, Oregon facility. We’ll sharpen it for free and return it to you. (If you live in the area, you may drop by our Warranty Department and we'll sharpen up to two knives for you while you wait. More than that and we'll get them to you the next day.)"

Taken from: http://shun.kaiusaltd.com/product-care
 
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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Why don't you sharpen them? Even the pricey knives need to sharpened, probably not as often but they will still get dull.

It's not them getting dull that is the problem. It is blades chipping, handles being crap, etc. I don't mind sharpening my knives, I just want something worth investing and using.
 

Mike64

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2011
2,108
101
91
It's not them getting dull that is the problem. It is blades chipping, handles being crap, etc. I don't mind sharpening my knives, I just want something worth investing and using.
Unless you're using them as general-purpose tools in addition to normal kitchen duty, Chicago Cutlery's knives (maybe splurge on one of the forged ones instead of the stamped) should easily avoid those problems for at least a few years and probably more... And if you are using them as all-purpose tools, just continue replacing them annually and don't bother spending big bucks on good knives - a W&#363;sthof definitely won't cut up cardboard boxes or pry open a can of paint any better than a $5 knife from Walmart, but will get destroyed just as quickly doing stuff like that.:p/<g,d&r>
 

Mike64

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2011
2,108
101
91
Electric sharpeners are terrible and will ruin your knives. Seriously. Get a good manual sharpener and spend 10 minutes a month or so and sharpen your knives properly. Nothing ruin a good knife faster than a crap sharpener.
We'll have to agree to disagree about that. I've used a number of allegedly "perfectly sharpened" knives (not to mention woodworking tools) sharpened by people who don't know how to use a whetstone very well (surely you understand it's not as easy as just picking one up and having at it? It takes a fair amount of practice to get it right, and way more than 10 minutes to sharpen a full set of knives...) But anyway, imnsho, I found the knives I referred to to be a lot like the burned toast preferred by people who "like it that way..."
 

Denly

Golden Member
May 14, 2011
1,433
229
106
on budget twin master yellow $30
or else twin master with the handle of your choice usually under $100 with pairing knife.

I have my twin master for 20yrs now, no complain other than it is heavy.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
81
It's not them getting dull that is the problem. It is blades chipping, handles being crap, etc. I don't mind sharpening my knives, I just want something worth investing and using.
Are you taking care of them? Even crappy steel alloys shouldn't chip if used properly. Handles too - if you hand wash them and dry them immediately, they should last quite a long time.
 

turtile

Senior member
Aug 19, 2014
629
307
136
Are you taking care of them? Even crappy steel alloys shouldn't chip if used properly. Handles too - if you hand wash them and dry them immediately, they should last quite a long time.

Second this - unless you have really bad knives. Also, we need to know what you are cutting to make a good suggestion. There's really no need to a million different knives so just invest in a nice chef's knife first.

I just bought a Tojiro ITK white #2 steel to test out carbon steel. It's pretty durable and easy to sharpen but the handle is cheap and the blade is pretty thick. The Tojiro DP already mentioned is probably the best knife for the money available. It's VG10 which will chip easier than other steels.

Here is another good knife with good build for its price:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmgy21.html

Or you can go for high end steel:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/higykn24.html
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Are you taking care of them? Even crappy steel alloys shouldn't chip if used properly. Handles too - if you hand wash them and dry them immediately, they should last quite a long time.


Sorry, I wrote up quite a lengthy reply yesterday I my usage and problems with my current knife and what I want, but tapatalk refused to let me post more than a Twitter length post.

My current knife is a cheap piece of crap. I need a quality chefs knife for general purpose usage. Vegetable chopping to meat prep. Some "jack of all trades" chefs knife (or santoku) for everyday use.

I clean my knife pretty much right after every use, by hand and towel dry. I also have no issue spending the whole $2.50 it costs to have to professionally sharpened at regular intervals. Currently, I'm at 6 months because I don't expect the cheap crap I continue to get to last very long.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Also, this is essentially the last investment I need to make in my kitchen. Nearly everything else is just that: a high quality item I can take care of and expect good performance from for years.
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
We have a number of Wustof and Shun knives, but our absolute favorites are a couple of Messermeisters that we got used from a local chef supply store where we have our blades sharpened.
 

Binky

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,046
4
81
Need something durable but decent - try the german-style knives like Wustof or Henckels. For me, they hold a blade longer. This is my preferred style as long as we are talking about long-term use. They sharpen well, and the sharpening is easier than on a japanese style knife. They last forever if taken care of.

Need something wicked sharp that looks pretty (for a while) - try the japanese knives like Shun. They are very nice to handle, and very sharp, but they are more delicate. I love these style knives too, but I'm more brute force than finesse in the kitchen, so i damage these more often. They also have a different angle on the sharpening that i find harder to master. I'm always afraid of damaging these knives.

Personally, I don't really need any "good" knives in my kitchen except for the standard 8" and 10" chef's knives. The rest can all be semi-crappy and I really don't notice. Even the crappiest (non-chef) knife can hold an edge for a while. Spending $100 on a bread knife is stupid, but spending more than that on a chefs knife that you will use for 30+ years is a great investment.

For sharpening, you need a stone(s). Period. Or, get them sharpened by a professional. You can get a stone with two sides that will be good enough. They last a long time if you don't drop them. Worst case, you dont' sharpen as well as the expert and you scrape the blade. The knife still works fine.
 
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Stopsignhank

Platinum Member
Mar 1, 2014
2,578
1,979
136
ceramic is a bad substitute for steel; the knife's blade is way thicker than it should be, they are incredibly fragile, nowhere near as sharp as any of the above, and they do not stay sharp forever, as they say they do. the only thing they have going for them is that they do not affect the taste of the food, so if you work in a super-high class restaurant that deals with that kind of super-delicate food, then yeah, get a set of these.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_blade_materials
I could not disagree with you more. Or maybe we just have different ceramic knives. We have bought Kyocera ceramic knives and they are incredibly sharp. The - you have to worry about cutting your fingers - sharp. I will agree they are fragile, but if you cut your boneless chicken, veggies and potatoes with them you are fine. They also offer lifetime sharpening. Send them the knives and the sharpen them. You do have to pay for postage.