Check out this build for a decently powerful mini-ITX system

[archcommus]

Right now I have an ATX system with a Core 2 Quad, 4 GB DDR2, 8800 GTS 512 video card, TV tuner, 500 GB HDD, and DVD burner. Frankly, I don't use it for much nowadays besides browsing the web/chatting/music/movies. So the ATX size and 650W PSU feel like major overkill for me right now. However, I don't want to discard all of the power, because I want to be able to pop in the occasional game and play it well. So I'm considering a Mini-ITX build, I wouldn't call it a "gaming" system as it won't be used for that much, but it should have the power to do so when called upon. I don't mind that it'll be cramped and difficult to work in, because honestly after I build systems I usually barely touch them for 2-3 years. I just want small, cool, and quiet, with just enough power for what I may someday ask of it.

Right now I'm considering the following:

• Silverstone Sugo SG05 Mini-ITX case w/300W PSU
• Gigabyte GA-H55N-USB3 LGA 1156 Mini-ITX motherboard
• Intel Core i5-760
• G.SKILL 2x2 GB DDR3 1600
• my current video card MSI 8800 GTS 512 OC if it'll fit
• my current hard drive Samsung Spinpoint T166 500 GB SATA
• some affordable SSD (not sure which yet)

I'll be removing the DVD drive and TV tuner as I don't need them.

What do you think about these parts in terms of compatibility and performance? As I said, it'll mostly be used for semi-trivial tasks, but should be able to handle new games at 1680x1050 res. I realize I may need a new video card but hopefully not, and I also need SSD recommendations (80 GB should be enough, want to keep costs low). It's a little disappointing to spend this much money and not really gain any performance, but all the hex-core and quad-core with HT parts are too expensive/overkill for me right now, as are the 6 GB memory kits.

Thanks for the help!

 

[fire400]

I'd go for the 6gb kits if you plan on gaming. Just sell the 8800, u can find a GTX260 easy for under $150, Best Buy has them on sale at $137 and FST can shell you out cheaper 260's.

i5 is good.

Get SSD with TRIM. Don't buy SSD's if you can't tell what the controller is. Intel or the latest Vertex.

Is 300w really gonna do it?

 

[archcommus]

I'd go for the 6gb kits if you plan on gaming. Just sell the 8800, u can find a GTX260 easy for under $150, Best Buy has them on sale at $137 and FST can shell you out cheaper 260's.

i5 is good.

Get SSD with TRIM. Don't buy SSD's if you can't tell what the controller is. Intel or the latest Vertex.

Is 300w really gonna do it?

How would GTX260 performance compare to the 8800 GTS 512? I actually think 300W might be enough...the Antec wattage calculator said minimum 263 for everything I put in, and there are enough connectors provided with the PSU, including a 6-pin PCI-E.

 

[llee]

As a preface, I have experience in these sorts of SFF planning issues. I've worked with the same case, same chipset, you name it.

1. You don't need 6GB of RAM, don't listen to Fire400. With your VGA, 2GB should be enough to play any game you need while 4GB being ideal. It should be reminded that the OP's system will be using RAM in dual channel mode. Triple channel settings are for X58 chipsets! Speaking of which, there are no X58 Mini-ITX mobos!

2. Forget about the GTX 260. I have the case, neither the GTX 260 nor the 8800 GTS will even fit in the case. You upgrade options are: HD5750 (=GTS250), HD5770(=GTX260), GTX 460 or HD5850. I recommend the GTX460 or HD5770

3. 300 watts is plenty for his system. I ran an HD5770 and Ci7-860 on a 300w PSU so he should be fine. Just don't overvolt. Upgrade the PSU if you choose a GTX460 or HD5850 with a Silverstone ST45SF SFX form factor PSU.

4. Bit-Tech has a nice article on SSD differences, do some research if you decide to buy an SSD. Indilux, Intel, and Sandforce firmware is ideal. I happen to use a Vertex but it's up to you.

5. Your included PSU with the SG-05 only has one PCIe 6-pin connector. This is why going with an ATI HD5770 is a good choice because it only needs ONE power connector. GTX 200 series cards look like power vampires in comparison and all need 2 connectors.

PM me if you have any other questions.

 

[Skott]

Just as a FYI LanGear, the makers of the DaBox, is in the progress of making a itx box. You may want to check it out. Its currently in beta testing last I read about it. It looks to be very promising to those wanting a small HTPC/Gaming rig. There's a long thread about its development over at HF in the SFF section.

 

[firewolfsm]

Undervolt your processor once you build this, the difference in heat output is big.

 

[archcommus]

Thanks, leonlee! Great advice. I haven't been following video cards much lately but the prices on the GTX460 and HD5770 cards seem fine. Will they get me acceptable performance with moderately high settings on new games at 1680x1050 res? I need to emphasize how little I'll be gaming with this system. The only thing I'm even interested in right now is Half-Life 2 Ep 3, which I know uses an older engine, but I do want to be able to pop in and play any game for the next couple years. I really don't like the trend with video cards with double slots, two power connectors, etc. I think it's kind of ridiculous especially considering what the CPU can do with more limited space and cooling requirements. So I'd definitely prefer to stick with a card that takes one power connector, runs a little cooler, and just squeeze whatever gaming performance out of that I can. This makes the HD5770 an appealing choice, if the performance is acceptable. It's good to hear confirmation the PSU should be sufficient for at least some of those cards.

I remember reading Anand say that a lot of new SSDs would be coming out Q4 of this year, I don't really need one right now so perhaps I'll hold off on that and just use my 500 GB HDD.

Just as a FYI LanGear, the makers of the DaBox, is in the progress of making a itx box. You may want to check it out. Its currently in beta testing last I read about it. It looks to be very promising to those wanting a small HTPC/Gaming rig. There's a long thread about its development over at HF in the SFF section.

Thanks for that case recommendation, Skott, however I think I want to do this build fairly soon (like as soon as I have all the parts decided on).

Undervolt your processor once you build this, the difference in heat output is big.

Oh really? This is not something I've done before. Could this result in instability? How drastically would performance be affected?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Massive Overkill]

I'm a beta tester for the Lan Gear mini ITX case. It will be worth waiting for:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1535164

 

[Sahakiel]

Oh really? This is not something I've done before. Could this result in instability? How drastically would performance be affected?

Yes. Undervolting carries the same risks as overclocking for the same reasons. Basically pretend you have a really slow chip that runs half what the box says at half the voltage that's listed and overclock it to the same speed on the box. That should tell you what the risks are and how to test for stability.
If you don't mind paying the premium, buy the fastest chip you can afford and underclock it as well. General rule of thumb is good chips that can run at lower voltages at the same clock are the ones that get clocked faster when set to the same voltage as another slower chip. However, note there is a physical limit to how low you can go, though it's usually well below what your motherboard can provide. Not all of them allow undervolting let alone somewhere low enough to prevent transistors from switching.


Basically, the heat generated by a processor is related to frequency and voltage (plus a couple others we can't change). The relationship with frequency is roughly linear, so a 20% clock increase is 20% heat output. However, the relationship with voltage is geometric (squared in this case). So a 10% increase in voltage is actually a 21% increase in heat output. Works the other direction as well.
As long as your clock stays the same, your performance will not change. Your heat generated (and subsequently, temps) will drop. How much heat depends on how low you drop it (test for stability) and how much your temps drop depends on your cooling solution.


If you find yourself wanting for space, pull out the CPU and string a few PicoPSU's together. You can use Google for the diagrams to tie them together for concurrent operation. The largest is 120W (or 150W, I forget) so you'll probably need 2-3, each with its own power brick. It's basically taking the guts of your PSU and moving it outside the case. On the plus side, if one fails, you can still run your system for basic, low load, levels.


My interests lately have veered towards silence, so I can't really comment on mini-ITX other than it's ill-suited because cooling/space is inhibited compared a standard ATX case. It has its uses, but it's harder to work with.

I will say if you want cool and quiet, your best option is a video card just under the 75W power limit for PCI-E slots. Basically, a card that doesn't use the PCI-E plug from your PSU. In the 75W-150W range, slot power plus the extra juice from your PSU plug, you're basically required to go with a dual slot cooler with a high speed fan if you're plugging this into a mini-ITX case. Some cards closer to the 75W-90W range might be fine with a slower fan, but as a rule of thumb, it's easier just to ditch the plug.
Depending on your preferences, if you lean towards silence, go with a slot-powered video card and a double slot heatsink. That combination will allow you to run the fan a lot slower or do away with it altogether. Of course, the disadvantage is that you're also extremely limited in both options and overall performance.


I highly suggest you poke around with a thermal probe when you're finished building, especially with video card components. First at idle, then full load. A lot of computer parts are designed to have a minimum amount of active airflow; convection just doesn't cut it. When aiming for silence, you find yourself becoming intimately familiar with the smell of burning electronics. If you find something running too hot (usually VRM or mobo chipset sinks), replace with a better heatsink, adhere a heatsink if it doesn't already have one, redirect airflow through more fans/ducting, or any combination.


Another tip: with a case of that size, you can usually squeak by with 120mm fans mounted to the panels that will provide enough pressure to force air where you want it. You don't always need smaller fans to direct air. Just be creative with placement and/or ducting. If you're lucky, you may even do fine with just 1-2 120mm fans for the entire system which really cuts down on noise generated. Unless you're using some 4k rpm screamers.

 

[Zap]

Did you just coil the tubes hidden away, or did you actually shorten the tubes on your H50?

 

[Massive Overkill]

Did you just coil the tubes hidden away, or did you actually shorten the tubes on your H50?

Coiled them around...........actually the first picture is of my first configuration. My final configuration has the 120x38 mm below the radiator

 

[archcommus]

@Sahakiel: Thanks for all the great info! Really appreciated. Sorry for my delay in responding. I will consider all your suggestions. I'm also considering holding this off until Q1 next year when Sandy Bridge is out. I don't really need a new system right now, and as I said before, it's disappointing to build this and not really gain much performance at all. Sandy Bridge will fix that. Question is, how long after release will it take for Mini-ITX boards to come out for it.

 

[jaydee]

The first Mini-ITX motherboard lags cpu release by at least a few months typically (AM3 just got it's first real mini-ITX mobo in July). Intel chipsets are better than AMD in that regard. Also note that newer technology will be more expensive initially.